Poll

Do you think Kahwi Leonard comes to Boston?

Yes
14 (15.9%)
No
74 (84.1%)

Total Members Voted: 88

Voting closed: June 29, 2018, 11:30:27 PM

Author Topic: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)  (Read 47279 times)

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Re: Chris Sheridan: 0% chance Spurs send Kawhi West
« Reply #375 on: June 18, 2018, 02:26:38 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Yeah my opening offer would be Rozier, Morris, Smart (if he likes the spurs), filler, and all of the picks. If we can get Kawhi without parting with a major asset, it’s worth the risk of losing him.

I think the best gauge for a trade is Carmelo from the Nuggets to the Knicks. He was also 27 when he was traded to the Knicks on the last year of his deal and Denver got Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors’ 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors’ 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.

Not sure, that trade basically ruined the Knicks chances of building a contender with Carmelo, teams since have avoided giving up that many pieces in trades.

Really we should be looking at what Kyrie went for or what Deron Williams went for. George and Butler went for pennies on the dollar and I don't think we see that repeated with Kawhi.

Williams went for Favors, Devon Harris and 2 first round picks, one of which was #3
Kyrie went for IT, Crowder, zizic and a nets pick (Nets had just finished with the worst record)

Phillys equivalent of the Williams trade would be Fultz + Covington + this years number 10 and a future pick, they'd likely have to add a bit more as the picks are worse and Fultz isn't as good as Favors was, plus Kawhi is a better player than Williams!

Equivalent to the Kyrie trade would be Saric, Covington, Luwawu, + a future high lottery pick that they don't currently have...

If I'm the Spurs I probably don't like either deal and I'd look elsewhere!

Let’s say Fultz, Covington, and the 10th pick is the starting point for the 76rs.  Is that really any better than say S&T of Smart, Morris and either the Kings pick or the Grizzlies pick? I think it’s close but we can easily sweeten our offer.  If we can hold onto Brown that would be great. Ha

Before we get to value, we need to remember the newish rule on sign and trades. The counting salary in a trade is half the salary for a s&t player. Kawhi earns roughly $19m, to match we would need about $15.5m. Morris is $5m, leaving $10.5m to match. That means the Spurs would need to be happy signing Smart to a $21m per year contract! I'm sure he'd be happy at least  ;D

In order for salaries to work, and accounting for roster space, offers from the Cs either include Irving / Hayward or Brown, Morris and a s&t for Smart. I just don't see us doing that.

On value I think they are in the same ball park but what do the Spurs want? I think there are better deals out there than the 76ers offer unless they choose to include Simmons which is unlikely.

Washington could offer a package around Beal if the Spurs wish to remain competitive. New York can offer something decent as well. Cleveland is a dark horse if they can get a 3rd team involved, although unlikely. Also how about a Toronto package based around DeRozan? We all assume the Spurs would rebuild but that's not in their history.

Basically there are better youth packages than we can give without Brown and better compete now packages as well. I don't see us giving Brown for Kawhi so ultimately I think he ends up elsewhere
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 05:21:42 PM by TheSundanceKid »

Re: Chris Sheridan: 0% chance Spurs send Kawhi West
« Reply #376 on: June 18, 2018, 02:29:28 PM »

Online JBcat

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Here's the package they could offer without Brown or Tatum.

Marcus Smart (sign and trade for 12.5 million a year, worth 6.25 in salary as part of this trade)
Terry Rozier
Marcus Morris
Abdul Nader (non-guaranteed)
19 Sac Pick

Given that the Cs have bigger assets (Brown and Tatum), I think the Spurs would want more. That said, if the Celtics didn't have bigger assets, that package is not bad.

That is a two-way veteran role player that would fit the Spurs system really well (Morris scores in the places on the court that the Spurs attack), a All-Defensive talent, a young guard with the potential to be a long-term starter in the NBA, and the 19 Sac pick that could be top 5.

I think you could argue that is better assets than what the Spurs would want from the Sixers (they won't want Fultz because the Spurs were one of the first teams that considered personality as part of their scouting process). Covington roughly equals Marcus Smart (depending on your personal preference), Saric roughly equals Rozier (depending on your personal preference), and the 2018 Sac pick is better than any draft picks the Sixers can offer.

Eastern Teams like the Heat, Cavs, Bucks, Raptors, Pacers, and Wizards can all make an offer with comparable or better rotation players, but worse draft assets.

The Cs are probably in the mix, but the above trade means they have an unbalanced roster and it pushes Brown or Hayward to come off the bench. They'd need to still sign another big (Baynes, Monroe, or O'Quinn) and a couple point guards (Larkin, Evans, etc.).

If Ainge pulls the trigger, I could get on board with it, but I'm completely fine with the current roster next season.

Were giving up all these guys who is are bench?  Yabu semi theis Larkin and brown/Tatum?  Yeesh

We would still have the MLE to use and maybe we bring in a guy like Tyreke Evans, and re-sign Baynes and Larkin with non bird rights raises of 20%.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #377 on: June 18, 2018, 03:10:29 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Is it safe to assume that nothing is going to happen before Thursday, and even then, it might take some time to shake out?

Mike

Yeah, I doubt anything big happens this Thursday to be honest.

Like maybe there will be some small trades within the draft itself, but that's about it.
2018 Mock Trade Deadline (New York Knicks)

Roster: Porzingis, Kanter, Hardaway Jr, Julius Randle, Schroder, Beasley, Alex Abrines, Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kyle Singler, Josh Huestis, Ron Baker, Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Isaiah Hicks

Future Draft Picks: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knick

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #378 on: June 18, 2018, 03:27:55 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

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I'd say a deal is already in place that lands Kawhi in LA with Lebron.  Probably a 3 team deal, I'll throw out an example:

Spurs get: Josh Jackson, Brandon Ingram, #16 overall, Channing Frye contract
Lakers: Kawhi, Troy Daniels
Suns: Lonzo Ball, Kuzma, considerations...

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #379 on: June 18, 2018, 04:33:31 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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This might sound like a dumb question but are we for sure accepting the fact that Popovich is willing to tear it down and go full rebuild at this stage in his career?

A lot of the trade offers include mostly young players but no real veteran/ready to play guys. They made the playoffs last year with what they had minus Leonard. I kind of wouldn't be surprised if they did something out of left field and went after some plug and play type of players and see what happens.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #380 on: June 18, 2018, 04:40:32 PM »

Offline mef730

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This might sound like a dumb question but are we for sure accepting the fact that Popovich is willing to tear it down and go full rebuild at this stage in his career?

A lot of the trade offers include mostly young players but no real veteran/ready to play guys. They made the playoffs last year with what they had minus Leonard. I kind of wouldn't be surprised if they did something out of left field and went after some plug and play type of players and see what happens.

Not a dumb question at all. My assumption is that Pop would tear it down and then retire.

Mike
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Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #381 on: June 18, 2018, 05:39:44 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Following on from my previous post... Do we assume that the Spurs want to rebuild when trading Kawhi? A lot of offers (Lakers, Philly) are based around that concept. But what if they don't? Here's 3 skeleton trades that could happen:

1. Bradley Beal / John Wall for Kawhi Leonard and a future 1st.

Why: Wall and Beal don't seem to function well together. Washington can choose which one to move for Kawhi and realistically they get better either way. SAS put in a 1st because of the uncertainty over Kawhi.

2. Demar DeRozan + OG Anunoby for Kawhi Leonard and Patty Mills

Why: Also works with Danny Green if he opts in. Toronto need to try something different to compete. They are stuck where they are, this either goes well or gives them the trigger to rebuild.

3. S&T DeMarcus Cousins and Solomon Hill + future first for Kawhi Leonard

Why: Actually..really not sure but what the hell, that NOP team looks mint... Cousins is talented and Pop has worked with him so maybe..big risk though.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #382 on: June 18, 2018, 05:57:56 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Following on from my previous post... Do we assume that the Spurs want to rebuild when trading Kawhi? A lot of offers (Lakers, Philly) are based around that concept. But what if they don't? Here's 3 skeleton trades that could happen:

1. Bradley Beal / John Wall for Kawhi Leonard and a future 1st.

Why: Wall and Beal don't seem to function well together. Washington can choose which one to move for Kawhi and realistically they get better either way. SAS put in a 1st because of the uncertainty over Kawhi.

2. Demar DeRozan + OG Anunoby for Kawhi Leonard and Patty Mills

Why: Also works with Danny Green if he opts in. Toronto need to try something different to compete. They are stuck where they are, this either goes well or gives them the trigger to rebuild.

3. S&T DeMarcus Cousins and Solomon Hill + future first for Kawhi Leonard

Why: Actually..really not sure but what the hell, that NOP team looks mint... Cousins is talented and Pop has worked with him so maybe..big risk though.

The Pelicans would be an intriguing landing spot for Kawhi. As most of us have noted, to go along with Holiday/Mirotic/Davis, adding an elite wing would do wonders for that team and make them contenders, even in the West.

I think Milwaukee is another possibility, as they could get Middleton + Parker + a pick, so you got an experienced but young player in Middleton and a potentially great prospect in Jabari Parker. Kind of a "win-now" and "rebuild" move at the same time. I honestly think Middleton is a bit underrated. Not saying that's the best package they'll get but I don't think the Spurs immediately hang up on it either.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 06:04:10 PM by Phantom255x »
2018 Mock Trade Deadline (New York Knicks)

Roster: Porzingis, Kanter, Hardaway Jr, Julius Randle, Schroder, Beasley, Alex Abrines, Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kyle Singler, Josh Huestis, Ron Baker, Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Isaiah Hicks

Future Draft Picks: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knick

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #383 on: June 18, 2018, 06:51:30 PM »

Offline LakersFan_33

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As a Lakers fan, I'm honestly not even sure I want Kawhi on the Lakers...not if it means gutting our young core. If PG13 and Lebron want to join together and we could keep our young assets, I think that would be, by far, the best outcome. The mystery regarding his injury is also very concerning.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #384 on: June 18, 2018, 07:02:31 PM »

Offline matteo

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Just an FYI

Suns to get Kawhi Leonard opened at +1700

Suns are now -140 favorites. A span of 21 minutes

https://twitter.com/danlifshatz/status/1008831544088244225?s=21

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #385 on: June 18, 2018, 07:05:44 PM »

Offline playdream

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I'd say a deal is already in place that lands Kawhi in LA with Lebron.  Probably a 3 team deal, I'll throw out an example:

Spurs get: Josh Jackson, Brandon Ingram, #16 overall, Channing Frye contract
Lakers: Kawhi, Troy Daniels
Suns: Lonzo Ball, Kuzma, considerations...
They aren't going anywhere with that two young guys and aging LMA, against Laker/Warriors/Celtics

Re: Chris Sheridan: 0% chance Spurs send Kawhi West
« Reply #386 on: June 18, 2018, 07:16:22 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Yeah my opening offer would be Rozier, Morris, Smart (if he likes the spurs), filler, and all of the picks. If we can get Kawhi without parting with a major asset, it’s worth the risk of losing him.

I think the best gauge for a trade is Carmelo from the Nuggets to the Knicks. He was also 27 when he was traded to the Knicks on the last year of his deal and Denver got Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors’ 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors’ 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.

Not sure, that trade basically ruined the Knicks chances of building a contender with Carmelo, teams since have avoided giving up that many pieces in trades.

Really we should be looking at what Kyrie went for or what Deron Williams went for. George and Butler went for pennies on the dollar and I don't think we see that repeated with Kawhi.

Williams went for Favors, Devon Harris and 2 first round picks, one of which was #3
Kyrie went for IT, Crowder, zizic and a nets pick (Nets had just finished with the worst record)

Phillys equivalent of the Williams trade would be Fultz + Covington + this years number 10 and a future pick, they'd likely have to add a bit more as the picks are worse and Fultz isn't as good as Favors was, plus Kawhi is a better player than Williams!

Equivalent to the Kyrie trade would be Saric, Covington, Luwawu, + a future high lottery pick that they don't currently have...

If I'm the Spurs I probably don't like either deal and I'd look elsewhere!

Let’s say Fultz, Covington, and the 10th pick is the starting point for the 76rs.  Is that really any better than say S&T of Smart, Morris and either the Kings pick or the Grizzlies pick? I think it’s close but we can easily sweeten our offer.  If we can hold onto Brown that would be great. Ha

Before we get to value, we need to remember the newish rule on sign and trades. The counting salary in a trade is half the salary for a s&t player. Kawhi earns roughly $19m, to match we would need about $15.5m. Morris is $5m, leaving $10.5m to match. That means the Spurs would need to be happy signing Smart to a $21m per year contract! I'm sure he'd be happy at least  ;D

In order for salaries to work, and accounting for roster space, offers from the Cs either include Irving / Hayward or Brown, Morris and a s&t for Smart. I just don't see us doing that.

On value I think they are in the same ball park but what do the Spurs want? I think there are better deals out there than the 76ers offer unless they choose to include Simmons which is unlikely.

Washington could offer a package around Beal if the Spurs wish to remain competitive. New York can offer something decent as well. Cleveland is a dark horse if they can get a 3rd team involved, although unlikely. Also how about a Toronto package based around DeRozan? We all assume the Spurs would rebuild but that's not in their history.

Basically there are better youth packages than we can give without Brown and better compete now packages as well. I don't see us giving Brown for Kawhi so ultimately I think he ends up elsewhere

Um, this rule has been around since at least the 1999 CBA, when it applied to players who were traded within 2 years of signing a new contract using Bird or Early Bird rights.  In the 2005 CBA it was limited to trades within the first 6 months of a contract, and since the 2011 CBA it only applies to sign-and-trades.  It’s probably older than some posters here.  It’s a month older than Luka Doncic!
“When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 19:33-34

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #387 on: June 18, 2018, 07:22:15 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Following on from my previous post... Do we assume that the Spurs want to rebuild when trading Kawhi? A lot of offers (Lakers, Philly) are based around that concept. But what if they don't? Here's 3 skeleton trades that could happen:

1. Bradley Beal / John Wall for Kawhi Leonard and a future 1st.

Why: Wall and Beal don't seem to function well together. Washington can choose which one to move for Kawhi and realistically they get better either way. SAS put in a 1st because of the uncertainty over Kawhi.

2. Demar DeRozan + OG Anunoby for Kawhi Leonard and Patty Mills

Why: Also works with Danny Green if he opts in. Toronto need to try something different to compete. They are stuck where they are, this either goes well or gives them the trigger to rebuild.

3. S&T DeMarcus Cousins and Solomon Hill + future first for Kawhi Leonard

Why: Actually..really not sure but what the hell, that NOP team looks mint... Cousins is talented and Pop has worked with him so maybe..big risk though.

The Wizards should try to do Wall for Kawhi and DeJounte Murray.  That move would really get their franchise out of a rut.
“When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 19:33-34

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #388 on: June 18, 2018, 07:51:34 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Following on from my previous post... Do we assume that the Spurs want to rebuild when trading Kawhi? A lot of offers (Lakers, Philly) are based around that concept. But what if they don't? Here's 3 skeleton trades that could happen:

1. Bradley Beal / John Wall for Kawhi Leonard and a future 1st.

Why: Wall and Beal don't seem to function well together. Washington can choose which one to move for Kawhi and realistically they get better either way. SAS put in a 1st because of the uncertainty over Kawhi.

2. Demar DeRozan + OG Anunoby for Kawhi Leonard and Patty Mills

Why: Also works with Danny Green if he opts in. Toronto need to try something different to compete. They are stuck where they are, this either goes well or gives them the trigger to rebuild.

3. S&T DeMarcus Cousins and Solomon Hill + future first for Kawhi Leonard

Why: Actually..really not sure but what the hell, that NOP team looks mint... Cousins is talented and Pop has worked with him so maybe..big risk though.

The Pelicans would be an intriguing landing spot for Kawhi. As most of us have noted, to go along with Holiday/Mirotic/Davis, adding an elite wing would do wonders for that team and make them contenders, even in the West.

I think Milwaukee is another possibility, as they could get Middleton + Parker + a pick, so you got an experienced but young player in Middleton and a potentially great prospect in Jabari Parker. Kind of a "win-now" and "rebuild" move at the same time. I honestly think Middleton is a bit underrated. Not saying that's the best package they'll get but I don't think the Spurs immediately hang up on it either.

I actually had that Milwaukee trade as number 4 but deleted it, I just don;t like it for the Spurs at all. Middleton is a nice piece but really that trade is about Parker's upside and I don't think it goes much higher.

Following on from my previous post... Do we assume that the Spurs want to rebuild when trading Kawhi? A lot of offers (Lakers, Philly) are based around that concept. But what if they don't? Here's 3 skeleton trades that could happen:

1. Bradley Beal / John Wall for Kawhi Leonard and a future 1st.

Why: Wall and Beal don't seem to function well together. Washington can choose which one to move for Kawhi and realistically they get better either way. SAS put in a 1st because of the uncertainty over Kawhi.

2. Demar DeRozan + OG Anunoby for Kawhi Leonard and Patty Mills

Why: Also works with Danny Green if he opts in. Toronto need to try something different to compete. They are stuck where they are, this either goes well or gives them the trigger to rebuild.

3. S&T DeMarcus Cousins and Solomon Hill + future first for Kawhi Leonard

Why: Actually..really not sure but what the hell, that NOP team looks mint... Cousins is talented and Pop has worked with him so maybe..big risk though.

The Wizards should try to do Wall for Kawhi and DeJounte Murray.  That move would really get their franchise out of a rut.

Agreed, I think that's the best situation the Spurs will find. I guess it boils down to how comfortable the Wizards are in Kawhi staying long term.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #389 on: June 18, 2018, 08:02:58 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I think Kawhi wants to be in LA. Clippers or Lakers. He's won. He'll get paid.

I'm not sure teams should be trading valuable assets for a Kawhi rental. Is he ready to play 80% of the games as a mercenary in Toronto or Milwaukee or wherever?

I don't think that SA will trade him to LAL. He may be taking the scenic route to the Lakers like Paul George.

I think Kawhi for Fultz + Covington, etc makes sense.