Poll

Do you think Kahwi Leonard comes to Boston?

Yes
14 (15.9%)
No
74 (84.1%)

Total Members Voted: 88

Voting closed: June 29, 2018, 11:30:27 PM

Author Topic: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)  (Read 119305 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #360 on: June 18, 2018, 01:21:29 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

  • NCE
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2948
  • Tommy Points: 320
History tells us that after being traded Kawhi is going to turn into a mediocre player .
It’s a Spurs thing.

Yeah, I'm out on the overpayment for Kawhi. I'll trade pretty much anything but one of the core players (including Jaylen).

I think Kawhi Leonard has been amazing player. I'm not convinced that he will continue to be that same player.

Re: Chris Sheridan: 0% chance Spurs send Kawhi West
« Reply #361 on: June 18, 2018, 01:40:25 PM »

Offline JBcat

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3642
  • Tommy Points: 512
This went up a couple of hours ago.

What can the Celtics offer in a trade for Kawhi Leonard?

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23826138/kawhi-leonard-trades-boston-celtics-offer

I HIGHLY doubt they trade Hayward or Irving + Picks for rental Kawhi. Just don't see it.

Now maybe Smart S&T + Morris + Rozier + Nader + 2 Picks (including Kings OR Grizzlies), OR Brown + Rozier + Morris + Filler + Pick(s). Those could get it done but it depends if Ainge wants to take the risk. He'll definitely be doing his homework in the coming days and probably even speaking with Kawhi and the Spurs.

Losing Jaylen or Smart would absolutely suck, but IF Ainge is confident that it's worth the risk and everything seems to check out, I'll trust him, and if Kawhi is truly healthy and committed here, then I don't think you can say no to a trade like that for a guy who is Top-5 in the entire NBA when healthy. Also probably the best (or second best) 2-way player in the league.

Smart won't be the best player going out.  It's going to take one of Brown or Tatum.

The best I'd do is Rozier + Morris + ONE OF Brown / Sacramento #1, along with whatever filler and late round picks were required

I’m not so sure.  With Kawhi having a year left on his contract, and Irving 2 years you could argue the value back in a trade is similar.

A re-signed and traded Smart is probably at least equal if not better value than Crowder at the time.

Even though Thomas had a historical year for us because of his hip injury, expiring contract, and pushing age 30 for a little guy his value might be on par with Rozier.  Obviously not equal players, but Rozier is healthy, much younger, and will be a RFA not like Thomas’s pending UFA status. If you don’t agree maybe if it was say a Morris and Rozier for Thomas it’s more equal.

Either the Kings or Grizzlies pick probably holds similar weight as the Nets pick we gave up.

We can throw in a late first to equal what we gave up for Zizic. 

We can throw in an extra pick easily too if it’s not enough.

The George and Cousins recent trades didn’t bring as much value back (pre Olidipo blowing up) as we thought too.

If this is true they won’t send Kawhi out West we have some leverage here.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #362 on: June 18, 2018, 01:44:00 PM »

Offline ederson

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2896
  • Tommy Points: 279
History tells us that after being traded Kawhi is going to turn into a mediocre player .
It’s a Spurs thing.

Yeah, I'm out on the overpayment for Kawhi. I'll trade pretty much anything but one of the core players (including Jaylen).

I think Kawhi Leonard has been amazing player. I'm not convinced that he will continue to be that same player.

Couldn't someone say the same about our players ?  That when they leave Boston and Stevens they turn into nobodies???

Doesn't that weaken the packages DA offers ?

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #363 on: June 18, 2018, 01:49:10 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2259
  • Tommy Points: 298
Danny has done a great job of putting the Celtics in the position they stand today. They have been able to attract key free agents (Horford and Hayward), trade for an arguable top 10 player (Irving), and draft significant players (Tatum and Brown), while still having tradable assets. For Kawhi, I don't think it's a question if Danny can get a trade done. Will ownership give Danny the OK to move forward on a trade that has 4 max level players? Or does ownership say, we want Kawhi, but you have to trade either Irving, Hayward, or Horford?

Based on what I have heard in the past from Danny and Wyc, I believe they will go all in. It's not every year that a top 5 player in the world is made available. And when they do become available, you do your best to get a deal done. I believe Wyc said recently (Felger and Mazz interview), that when ownership got together to purchase the Celtics, their main concern was wining titles and money wouldn't get in the way. If Wyc feels a player deserves the money, he said he wouldn't be concerned about the luxury tax ramifications.

Re: Chris Sheridan: 0% chance Spurs send Kawhi West
« Reply #364 on: June 18, 2018, 01:51:56 PM »

Offline footey

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15965
  • Tommy Points: 1833
If Lebron and/or George sign with Lakers, can’t they negotiate option to terminate after one year, in case Spurs refuse to trade KL to Lakers? That way when KL becomes FA in 2019 they can renegotiate contracts to fit under cap?

SL?

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #365 on: June 18, 2018, 01:53:03 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6043
  • Tommy Points: 766
History tells us that after being traded Kawhi is going to turn into a mediocre player .
It’s a Spurs thing.

Can I get some examples of this, because I can't find any? Stephen Jackson? Aron Baynes? George Hill? Marco Bellinelli? Dedmon? Simmons? Boban? West? Joseph? Jamichael Green? Neal? Mahinmi? Tolliver?

All of those players went on to have comparable or better impacts elsewhere.

I just don't think you can back that narrative up with facts.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #366 on: June 18, 2018, 01:57:33 PM »

Offline boscel33

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2667
  • Tommy Points: 166
People wanting to get rid of Brown and include him in a package for Kawhi, check these stats out comparing Jaylen's and Kawhi's second seasons:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Kawhi+Leonard&player_id1_select=Kawhi+Leonard&y1=2013&player_id1=leonaka01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id2_select=Jaylen+Brown&y2=2018&player_id2=brownja02&idx=players 

We already have a Kawhi and his name is Jaylen Brown. 
"There's sharks and minnows in this world. If you don't know which you are, you ain't a shark."

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #367 on: June 18, 2018, 01:58:45 PM »

Offline mef730

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4422
  • Tommy Points: 907
Is it safe to assume that nothing is going to happen before Thursday, and even then, it might take some time to shake out?

Mike

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #368 on: June 18, 2018, 02:01:10 PM »

Online celticinorlando

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27949
  • Tommy Points: 637
  • MASTER OF PANIC
Is it safe to assume that nothing is going to happen before Thursday, and even then, it might take some time to shake out?

Mike

Prolly Thursday if a deal with a team involves draft picks...most likely before free agency because Leonard needs to be the first domino to fall before teams resign or sign free agents.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #369 on: June 18, 2018, 02:10:32 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11495
  • Tommy Points: 866
  • GOT IT!!!
Danny has done a great job of putting the Celtics in the position they stand today. They have been able to attract key free agents (Horford and Hayward), trade for an arguable top 10 player (Irving), and draft significant players (Tatum and Brown), while still having tradable assets. For Kawhi, I don't think it's a question if Danny can get a trade done. Will ownership give Danny the OK to move forward on a trade that has 4 max level players? Or does ownership say, we want Kawhi, but you have to trade either Irving, Hayward, or Horford?

Based on what I have heard in the past from Danny and Wyc, I believe they will go all in. It's not every year that a top 5 player in the world is made available. And when they do become available, you do your best to get a deal done. I believe Wyc said recently (Felger and Mazz interview), that when ownership got together to purchase the Celtics, their main concern was wining titles and money wouldn't get in the way. If Wyc feels a player deserves the money, he said he wouldn't be concerned about the luxury tax ramifications.

Yes regardless of what the plan will be the C's have a great problem to have. Don't have to really do anything and they still should win 65 games next season. Things really are at a luxury level right now.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #370 on: June 18, 2018, 02:12:23 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11495
  • Tommy Points: 866
  • GOT IT!!!
Is it safe to assume that nothing is going to happen before Thursday, and even then, it might take some time to shake out?

Mike

If he's traded on draft night it's most likely to somewhere else. Spurs can wait on the C's for a while.

Re: Chris Sheridan: 0% chance Spurs send Kawhi West
« Reply #371 on: June 18, 2018, 02:19:10 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1691
  • Tommy Points: 199
Sheridan doesn't know what he's talking about.  The Spurs will do whatever yields the best return.  Think of it this way.  The championship goes through GSW.  The Spurs have a 0% chance.  Does it really do any harm to create another super team (or 2 more) that might knock off GSW or HOU?  You only have to play 3 of them at most and your odds can't be reduced when they're presently zero.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #372 on: June 18, 2018, 02:20:26 PM »

Offline Sophomore

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6227
  • Tommy Points: 823
Danny has done a great job of putting the Celtics in the position they stand today. They have been able to attract key free agents (Horford and Hayward), trade for an arguable top 10 player (Irving), and draft significant players (Tatum and Brown), while still having tradable assets. For Kawhi, I don't think it's a question if Danny can get a trade done. Will ownership give Danny the OK to move forward on a trade that has 4 max level players? Or does ownership say, we want Kawhi, but you have to trade either Irving, Hayward, or Horford?

Based on what I have heard in the past from Danny and Wyc, I believe they will go all in. It's not every year that a top 5 player in the world is made available. And when they do become available, you do your best to get a deal done. I believe Wyc said recently (Felger and Mazz interview), that when ownership got together to purchase the Celtics, their main concern was wining titles and money wouldn't get in the way. If Wyc feels a player deserves the money, he said he wouldn't be concerned about the luxury tax ramifications.

I think they're willing to pay to win, but if you send out Jaylen as the main piece you are going to have some serious problems. At the end of next year, if you resign Kawhi and Kyrie you have 4(!) guys with max contracts. Those will be 3d or fourth contracts and it's going to cost in the neighborhood of $130 million, just for those four guys. Add Tatum and resign either Smart or Terry and you're around $145 (before the tax). You still need to fill 8-9 roster spots, and some of those are multimillion dollar deals - Baynes or a backup wing; if we get lucky and the Sacto pick lands high that could be $5-6 million.

I just don't know how high they can go.

Re: Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)
« Reply #373 on: June 18, 2018, 02:21:04 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
Is it safe to assume that nothing is going to happen before Thursday, and even then, it might take some time to shake out?

Mike

think so

Spurs will also likely want max return and won't happen unless Leonard is open to being traded to more teams

the longer this thing goes on, the better it is for the Spurs.

Leonard wants to be traded to a LA team but more importantly does not want to play under Spurs next season

Re: Chris Sheridan: 0% chance Spurs send Kawhi West
« Reply #374 on: June 18, 2018, 02:24:30 PM »

Offline cltc5

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7054
  • Tommy Points: 445
Here's the package they could offer without Brown or Tatum.

Marcus Smart (sign and trade for 12.5 million a year, worth 6.25 in salary as part of this trade)
Terry Rozier
Marcus Morris
Abdul Nader (non-guaranteed)
19 Sac Pick

Given that the Cs have bigger assets (Brown and Tatum), I think the Spurs would want more. That said, if the Celtics didn't have bigger assets, that package is not bad.

That is a two-way veteran role player that would fit the Spurs system really well (Morris scores in the places on the court that the Spurs attack), a All-Defensive talent, a young guard with the potential to be a long-term starter in the NBA, and the 19 Sac pick that could be top 5.

I think you could argue that is better assets than what the Spurs would want from the Sixers (they won't want Fultz because the Spurs were one of the first teams that considered personality as part of their scouting process). Covington roughly equals Marcus Smart (depending on your personal preference), Saric roughly equals Rozier (depending on your personal preference), and the 2018 Sac pick is better than any draft picks the Sixers can offer.

Eastern Teams like the Heat, Cavs, Bucks, Raptors, Pacers, and Wizards can all make an offer with comparable or better rotation players, but worse draft assets.

The Cs are probably in the mix, but the above trade means they have an unbalanced roster and it pushes Brown or Hayward to come off the bench. They'd need to still sign another big (Baynes, Monroe, or O'Quinn) and a couple point guards (Larkin, Evans, etc.).

If Ainge pulls the trigger, I could get on board with it, but I'm completely fine with the current roster next season.

Were giving up all these guys who is are bench?  Yabu semi theis Larkin and brown/Tatum?  Yeesh