Poll

Who was better, Paul Pierce or Scottie Pippen?

Pierce
21 (51.2%)
Pippen
20 (48.8%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Author Topic: Pierce or Pippen  (Read 2246 times)

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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2018, 12:06:14 AM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Pierce was probably a top 10 player of his era. Can we say the same about Pippen? I don't think I can.

All-NBA voters disagreed.


Allen Iverson had 7 ALL-NBA selections. I'd love for you to mathematically prove to me Iverson was a better offensive player than Pierce.

Iverson did more with less.


That's very subjective. In 10 seasons with Philadelphia, Iverson could only manage 5 seasons with records above .500%. Statistics show he was horribly inefficient and not a winner.

Who do you think the 2nd best player was on AIís team that made the finals? Pick a guy, then make a case for that guy being better than Antoine that includes comparing all star appearances, keeping in mind Pierce never made a finals without 2-3 HOFers.


Dikembe Mutombo who is a HOF and one of the greatest defensive players of all time.
.... and was also 35, and not at all the player he was at Denver nor Atlanta


Still a much more impactful player than Walker, who was simply not a valuable player.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2018, 12:33:01 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Pierce was probably a top 10 player of his era. Can we say the same about Pippen? I don't think I can.

All-NBA voters disagreed.

Yeah he was. When I watch a lot of random Bulls games from 90-93 or 96-98, frequently Pippin looks underrated to me and Jordan looks underrated vs his Paul Bunyan status (not vs. other players).

Whenever I watch those contests it's always amazing to me as to how much difficulty that Pippen had with guarding practically anyone who could utilize a pick/screen off of the ball and, well, as to how badly Jordan fared against post players. Dudes would bite on almost every pump fake, LOL ;D, and yet they somehow never managed to commit a foul ::).

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2018, 12:44:18 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Pippen was the 2nd to 4th best player in the league for a large part of the 90's. He was probably the best defender in the league for much of that time too. Pierce was never a top 5 player in the league at any point in his career.

I love Paul Pierce, but he just wasn't as good of a player as Pippen. During the Dream Team Olympics, I read a column that the two best players on that team, at that time, were Jordan and Pippen, because both were in their prime, had tremendous chemistry together and were the two best defenders on the planet.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2018, 12:49:43 AM »

Online gouki88

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Pippen was the 2nd to 4th best player in the league for a large part of the 90's. He was probably the best defender in the league for much of that time too. Pierce was never a top 5 player in the league at any point in his career.

I love Paul Pierce, but he just wasn't as good of a player as Pippen. During the Dream Team Olympics, I read a column that the two best players on that team, at that time, were Jordan and Pippen, because both were in their prime, had tremendous chemistry together and were the two best defenders on the planet.
I agree that Pippen was better, but really?

Just off the top of my head I remember MJ, Hakeem, David Robinson, Karl Malone as better than Pippen. Shaq and Pippen were probably a level below these guys, alongside Stockton

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2018, 12:56:03 AM »

Offline Curley

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Great discussion, I did not vote because to me the answer completely depends on the other 4 starters surrounding Pippen/Pierce.  Pippen could never be a number 1 option and lead his team to a championship.  With that said you could argue he is the best supporting #2 player to ever play the game. Pippen needed an Alpha (MJ). 

Pierce was our closer, our #1 but needed the second coming of the Big 3 to win a title. 

Circumstances are so important in these debates of who is a better player.

I think the Bulls teams would have been worse with Pierce on them (instead of Pippen) and I donít think the Celtics win the banner if Pippen was on the Celtics (instead of Pierce)

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #65 on: June 15, 2018, 01:05:06 AM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Pippen was the 2nd to 4th best player in the league for a large part of the 90's. He was probably the best defender in the league for much of that time too. Pierce was never a top 5 player in the league at any point in his career.

I love Paul Pierce, but he just wasn't as good of a player as Pippen. During the Dream Team Olympics, I read a column that the two best players on that team, at that time, were Jordan and Pippen, because both were in their prime, had tremendous chemistry together and were the two best defenders on the planet.
I agree that Pippen was better, but really?

Just off the top of my head I remember MJ, Hakeem, David Robinson, Karl Malone as better than Pippen. Shaq and Pippen were probably a level below these guys, alongside Stockton


Shaq was not a level below. Charles Barkley was better too.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2018, 01:05:58 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Pippen was the 2nd to 4th best player in the league for a large part of the 90's. He was probably the best defender in the league for much of that time too. Pierce was never a top 5 player in the league at any point in his career.

I love Paul Pierce, but he just wasn't as good of a player as Pippen. During the Dream Team Olympics, I read a column that the two best players on that team, at that time, were Jordan and Pippen, because both were in their prime, had tremendous chemistry together and were the two best defenders on the planet.

Iirc, didn't Chuck Daly say that Barkley was the MVP of that team, not to mention the fact that, well, didn't said coach actually try to get Jordan to calm Charles down in terms of intensity, even though, ultimately, nothing worked, lol? ;D

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2018, 02:31:45 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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As a Celtic fan board, I feel pretty confident I know how this will play out but I saw some comments in a thread a few days ago really extolling Pippen and I'm curious just how well regarded he is and thought this could be an interesting match up.

Greater player, Pierce or Pippen?
Love Pierce.  Pippen was better.  People forget that after Pippen and Jordan won 57 games and their 3rd title, Jordan retired and Pippen won 55 games without him.  Pierce never sniffed 50 wins until KG showed up and carried the team.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #68 on: June 15, 2018, 08:55:14 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I could make an easy argument that from 96-96 to 97-98 Pippen is the third best player on the Bulls.
Then make it

Yeah, it wouldnít be a very good case.

Random question, though: where do Pippen / Jordan / Rodman rank  all-time as a defensive trio?  Those guys are all easily top-10 defenders all-time at their position.


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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #69 on: June 15, 2018, 09:04:10 AM »

Offline Big333223

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https://www.sbnation.com/2015/9/9/9290999/nba-90s-scottie-pippen-michael-jordan

https://www.blogabull.com/2015/9/24/9358331/scottie-pippen-stats-analytics-chicago-bulls

I’m curious, can anybody come up with even one non-Celtic media / NBA site that ranks Pierce over Pippen?

fwiw, Bill Simmons had Pierce #47 in his pyramid and Pippen all the way up to #24. Pierce is almost certainly higher now after admirable supporting turns in the twilight of his career in Brooklyn and Washington, but there's no way he's covered that gap.

I do think he's got Pippen a little too high (above John Stockton, Rick Barry, and David Robinson) and I think there's something about Pippen being underrated for so long that he's now became slightly overrated by today's generation of fans but we've still got Simmons putting Pippen firmly ahead of Pierce.
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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #70 on: June 15, 2018, 09:04:19 AM »

Offline Moranis

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...and the year after he only won 47.

Because Jordan came back and ruined things. 

But yeah, anyway, 93-94 he looked pretty good leading a team by himself.   
not really, but they did lose 2 starters in Grant and Cartwright (along with Williams and Paxson who were the 9th and 10th men in the 94 playoffs).  So they went from a nearly identical team to a team that was down 2 starters, so a bit of a step back isn't all that surprising.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #71 on: June 15, 2018, 09:20:55 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Equal votes... This is why fans of other teams donít take us seriously. I love Pierce, but itís Pippen by a landslide.




Pierce made it to the NBA finals twice, once being the best player on the team and the next being arguably the best player on the team. He also made it to the eastern conference finals as the best player on the team. Do people think if Pippen played for some other team in the league and wasn't drafted into the perfect situation he would have had success as any type of winner at all? Purely hypothetical, but I'm just curious as to what people think. Pierce was a bonafide go-to scorer with good efficiency as well as being a good all-around-player. Pippen was a great defensive player, with a good all-around game, and was a solid offensive player/scorer. How many great defensive players who are solid offensively have every carried a team to the finals being the supposed "best player" on a team. Pierce achieved these marks being the best guy on the team.
Pierce was not better than Garnett.  It isn't even close really and Garnett absolutely should have been the Finals MVP as he drove that entire team and played with consistency that Pierce lacked (even in that final series against the Lakers).  In fact, I think you could make a reasonable argument that in the Lakers series, Allen was better than Pierce (though Pierce was the better player).  Pierce was basically given a lifetime achievement award with that Finals MVP and it shouldn't have been his.  Let's remember, KG gets hurt the next year and Boston loses in the 2nd round, and then the C's miraculously are back in the Finals with KG in 2010 (hmm I wonder why that is).  The simple reality is Pierce was a very good player for a very long time, but he is not even in the same league as a player as Scottie Pippen.  The fact that the voting is tied is actually quite embarrassing.

EDIT: This thread has a lot of similar themes as the one from a couple of weeks ago talking about Pierce hate.  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=96673.0
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 09:41:39 AM by Moranis »

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #72 on: June 15, 2018, 09:48:21 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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Pierce was probably a top 10 player of his era. Can we say the same about Pippen? I don't think I can.

All-NBA voters disagreed.


Allen Iverson had 7 ALL-NBA selections. I'd love for you to mathematically prove to me Iverson was a better offensive player than Pierce.

Iverson did more with less.


That's very subjective. In 10 seasons with Philadelphia, Iverson could only manage 5 seasons with records above .500%. Statistics show he was horribly inefficient and not a winner.

Who do you think the 2nd best player was on AIís team that made the finals? Pick a guy, then make a case for that guy being better than Antoine that includes comparing all star appearances, keeping in mind Pierce never made a finals without 2-3 HOFers.


Dikembe Mutombo who is a HOF and one of the greatest defensive players of all time.
.... and was also 35, and not at all the player he was at Denver nor Atlanta


Still a much more impactful player than Walker, who was simply not a valuable player.

Dikembe put up 11-11-1 that year with over 2 blocks, solid, but that very same year Antoine put up 22-9-5 with 1.5 steals and made the all star team, and that's just a random Antoine season.  He was definitely better than Dikembe at age 35, and it's not close. 

Then you consider peak Antoine and young prime Paul got obliterated by JKidd and the Nets, and that Iverson obliterated those Nets by himself to get to the finals... That's why Iverson gets props, and gets to claim he did less with more.  Piece got less far than Iverson, with better teammates.
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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #73 on: June 15, 2018, 09:50:20 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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For the record, Pierce might be my favorite Celtic, but watch a bunch of Bulls games between 90-98 and Pippen will jump off the screen to you.  Like I said before, when I watch many of the old games, Pippen looks EDIT: OVERrated and Jordan looks underrated.  Pippen was a top 5-10 player of the 90's.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 01:05:26 PM by smokeablount »
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #74 on: June 15, 2018, 10:16:09 AM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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I donít understand how people are picking Pippen in a ďlandslide.Ē Basketball is a two-way sport. Yes, Pippen was a better defensive player. But Pierce was clearly the better offensive player. The numbers prove this. Therefore, how is Pippen clearly the better player if he is only better on one side of the ball?