Author Topic: Violence in Mexico  (Read 891 times)

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Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2018, 11:37:47 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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According to the GAO, at least 70% of guns used by Mexican cartels are smuggled from the US.  Our loose gun laws and looser enforcement have ramifications beyond our borders.

To be sure, there is no singular cause or solution.  But both demand for the cartels product and the source of their arms are largely from the US, so it is certainly not a problem that Mexico can deal with on its own.

https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/GAO-16-223

Nice try, broheim, but criminals gonna criminal no matter what you do, lol ;) ::) ;D.

You don’t think the cartels would find weapons even if every gun in the US was destroyed tomorrow?  They get them cheaper and easier through us, but they’d get them no matter what.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic, hence the emojis, so...

Right. Sarcasm implying you disagree with your statement.

I happen to agree with it in this circumstance.  Blocking access to every US gun wouldn’t make Mexico much safer.


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Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2018, 11:50:48 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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According to the GAO, at least 70% of guns used by Mexican cartels are smuggled from the US.  Our loose gun laws and looser enforcement have ramifications beyond our borders.

To be sure, there is no singular cause or solution.  But both demand for the cartels product and the source of their arms are largely from the US, so it is certainly not a problem that Mexico can deal with on its own.

https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/GAO-16-223

Nice try, broheim, but criminals gonna criminal no matter what you do, lol ;) ::) ;D.

You don’t think the cartels would find weapons even if every gun in the US was destroyed tomorrow?  They get them cheaper and easier through us, but they’d get them no matter what.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic, hence the emojis, so...

Right. Sarcasm implying you disagree with your statement.

I happen to agree with it in this circumstance.  Blocking access to every US gun wouldn’t make Mexico much safer.

Yeah, sorry for the confusion.

Honestly, I don't know much about Central and South American countries other than as to how the U.S. has engineered many a coup in the region during the last century, and as such, I wonder as to how many of those within these cartels either a). received training and supplies via the CIA, and b). have access to and/or know the whereabouts of large weapons caches, or both.

I can't imagine that it's difficult to procure an AK-47, for example, but I really don't know :-\. Can't we just blame it on Obama and/or Nafta like we always do and call it a day, lol? ;) ::) ;D

And yes, I'm being sarcastic, again.

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2018, 12:05:08 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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As some one who lives directly on the border with Mexico (When I go on my campus, my iPhone welcomes me to Mexico), goes there for meetings with Mexican universities, and whose office staff is 80% from there I wish to address the question posed in this thread. Also, I also serve on the university safety travel committee and read state department travel warnings every week.

Let me say this. virtually no one who posted thus far about this has any deep understanding of the complex situation there.

First, it is mostly the northern states with cartel troubles. And they are bad. Most of Mexico is pretty safer, safer than many cities in the US.

Second, this is crudely overly simple, but Mexico is not a new democracy. The state was designed many years ago to allow and institutionalize exploitation and corruption and it has succeeded.

Third, the current cartels are the direct product of the US government demand and intervention into Mexican politics to stop the drugs. Prior to the US making the Mexican government go after the main cartel, the Mexican government and the cartel had a deal. As long as they sold drugs to the US and paid the government bribes, the government let it run its business. There was little violence, nothing like today along the border.

Back then, the borders were very safe and filled with tourists and vacationers. People here crossed over each night to dine and drink. (This was before my time here.)

But, when the federalists went after the cartel and broke it up, as demanded by the US, it allowed dozens of sub-leaders to think “I can become the top dog now.” A number of cartels emerged, each vying for control of an uncontrollable situation. The central leadership was removed so the cartel splintered into warring cartels.

Before, the government could bargain and deal with the cartel. Now each cartel has raised an army to battle other cartels. More than ever, the cartels are run by psychopaths.  They are filled with sick people.

This also gave rise to local “mom and pop” crime rings who deal in quick kidnappings and protection schemes.

By following the lead of the US, the situation fell apart quickly.

Next, the idea that the US can send in the military to defeat these guys makes all Mexicans laugh at our foolishness. Remember, the government is corrupt and now many cartels are buying off local police. Those police would side with their fellow Mexicans more often than an occupying US military. And most Mexicans would as well.

They ask, why is the US making us solve their problem?

The real underlying problem, has always been the market for drugs in the US, not the sales from Mexico. A better solution is to stop drug purchases in the US. No buying by us means no selling by them. Ha ha ha. Hard to do? Yes and a militarized war on drugs here was a failure. The US government failed to control drugs here. They won’t do better in Mexico.

Portugal has it right. Decriminalize drug users, give support to addicts, provide care and escape programs, and also give job training to drug users. That approach as proven to be far more successful

This is a complex situation, but I can only type simple statements since I am using my iPad.

But the above may provide some sophistication to the discussion here.

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Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2018, 12:32:51 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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As some one who lives directly on the border with Mexico (When I go on my campus, my iPhone welcomes me to Mexico), goes there for meetings with Mexican universities, and whose office staff is 80% from there I wish to address the question posed in this thread. Also, I also serve on the university safety travel committee and read state department travel warnings every week.

Let me say this. virtually no one who posted thus far about this has any deep understanding of the complex situation there.

First, it is mostly the northern states with cartel troubles. And they are bad. Most of Mexico is pretty safer, safer than many cities in the US.

Second, this is crudely overly simple, but Mexico is not a new democracy. The state was designed many years ago to allow and institutionalize exploitation and corruption and it has succeeded.

Third, the current cartels are the direct product of the US government demand and intervention into Mexican politics to stop the drugs. Prior to the US making the Mexican government go after the main cartel, the Mexican government and the cartel had a deal. As long as they sold drugs to the US and paid the government bribes, the government let it run its business. There was little violence, nothing like today along the border.

Back then, the borders were very safe and filled with tourists and vacationers. People here crossed over each night to dine and drink. (This was before my time here.)

But, when the federalists went after the cartel and broke it up, as demanded by the US, it allowed dozens of sub-leaders to think “I can become the top dog now.” A number of cartels emerged, each vying for control of an uncontrollable situation. The central leadership was removed so the cartel splintered into warring cartels.

Before, the government could bargain and deal with the cartel. Now each cartel has raised an army to battle other cartels. More than ever, the cartels are run by psychopaths.  They are filled with sick people.

This also gave rise to local “mom and pop” crime rings who deal in quick kidnappings and protection schemes.

By following the lead of the US, the situation fell apart quickly.

Next, the idea that the US can send in the military to defeat these guys makes all Mexicans laugh at our foolishness. Remember, the government is corrupt and now many cartels are buying off local police. Those police would side with their fellow Mexicans more often than an occupying US military. And most Mexicans would as well.

They ask, why is the US making us solve their problem?

The real underlying problem, has always been the market for drugs in the US, not the sales from Mexico. A better solution is to stop drug purchases in the US. No buying by us means no selling by them. Ha ha ha. Hard to do? Yes and a militarized war on drugs here was a failure. The US government failed to control drugs here. They won’t do better in Mexico.

Portugal has it right. Decriminalize drug users, give support to addicts, provide care and escape programs, and also give job training to drug users. That approach as proven to be far more successful

This is a complex situation, but I can only type simple statements since I am using my iPad.

But the above may provide some sophistication to the discussion here.

TP for the incite, man :). Like I said, I know next to nothing about the region, never mind the topic at hand, so thanks, again :).

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2018, 02:15:34 AM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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What I would suggest puts the drug cartels out of business essentially overnight. However, saying what I would argue is against CB Policy.

I suspect that cartels would move on to something else.  Guns, sex trafficking, rigging elections, something, while "legitimizing" their interests in their current trade of choice.

I’d like to think there’s a slightly smaller market for those other things. Also, if people are getting murdered in Mexico, one thing to do might be to not hardline asylum seekers or tear apart families. Compassion in our immigration system would be favorable in my opinion.

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2018, 07:42:06 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I was stationed in El Paso for a bit and Juarez was full of scum and villany and some real nice people.   But back in the day if you crossed the wrong fellows you would get your head cut off. 

But if we are honest it has always had it's violent areas just as our cities do.   It's life.

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2018, 09:47:29 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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What I would suggest puts the drug cartels out of business essentially overnight. However, saying what I would argue is against CB Policy.

I suspect that cartels would move on to something else.  Guns, sex trafficking, rigging elections, something, while "legitimizing" their interests in their current trade of choice.

I’d like to think there’s a slightly smaller market for those other things. Also, if people are getting murdered in Mexico, one thing to do might be to not hardline asylum seekers or tear apart families. Compassion in our immigration system would be favorable in my opinion.

I’m very mixed on this.

I sympathize with Mexicans who are attempting to leave. They’re looking for a better, safer life.

But, our system can’t sustain taking in folks who won’t contribute.

So, assuming our immigration system isn’t based purely on sympathy, what do we do? How do we attract workers (particularly skilled workers) while not admitting future wards of the state?


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Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2018, 03:20:30 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I met a lot of latinos in my day and although you can't generalize.   A Hard worker is not something to find in this population.  In fact, if people have jobs they like there are a lot of hard workers across the board.

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2018, 03:27:22 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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What I would suggest puts the drug cartels out of business essentially overnight. However, saying what I would argue is against CB Policy.

I suspect that cartels would move on to something else.  Guns, sex trafficking, rigging elections, something, while "legitimizing" their interests in their current trade of choice.

I’d like to think there’s a slightly smaller market for those other things. Also, if people are getting murdered in Mexico, one thing to do might be to not hardline asylum seekers or tear apart families. Compassion in our immigration system would be favorable in my opinion.

I’m very mixed on this.

I sympathize with Mexicans who are attempting to leave. They’re looking for a better, safer life.

But, our system can’t sustain taking in folks who won’t contribute.

So, assuming our immigration system isn’t based purely on sympathy, what do we do? How do we attract workers (particularly skilled workers) while not admitting future wards of the state?


I think most people from any country can contribute if they want to. Many of us here today are here because our parents or grandparents or ancestors at some point came here and worked hard at whatever job they could land.

There's an abundance of entry level labor jobs open in the U.S., just most people don't want those jobs or don't take them seriously. If you set up a system where big and small businesses agree to take on immigrant workers to fill specific positions, for a specified length of time, then a set number of people can enter the country with the agreement that they stay at that job, pending continued satisfactory performance, for a set number of years. After that, if all goes well, they can apply for more permanent status such as a green card.


This way, we let in people based on number of job sponsorships available. People enter the country with a job, pay taxes, contribute to the system, and in return get a chance at a safer life with health care benefits that they pay into, rather than draining our system and showing up to the ER all the time.

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2018, 03:30:24 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Reason why i would never go to Mexico...drug cartels would kill u in a second for no reason is one reason
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