Author Topic: Violence in Mexico  (Read 738 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Violence in Mexico
« on: June 13, 2018, 09:36:22 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34888
  • Tommy Points: -27828
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
This is scary:

Quote
At least 113 candidates, pre-candidates, and current and former politicians have been killed and 300 more have suffered some form of aggression since September, according to Etellekt, a Mexico City–based public policy consultancy. Even the government’s tally — 34, which considers only candidates — pushes this particular death toll to nearly four per month.

Astonishing as these numbers are, they only tell part of the story: There are hundreds of candidates who have backed out of their races out of fear for their safety, and many others who have curbed their campaign activities. This poses a significant challenge to Mexico’s relatively young democracy, already crippled by systemic corruption and widespread impunity.

Anybody who is vaguely aware of the situation in Mexico understands how brutally violent the drug cartels are, and how little control the government / police have.  Cities only miles from the U.S. border are the equivalent of a war zone.

So, with all the bright minds here on CelticsBlog...  what can be done?  Assume we have a government in place that values Mexico as an ally, and wants stability.  What should our actions be, what are our goals, and what's the time frame?

I understand the gut response of "close the border and let them deal with it as a sovereign nation", but I'm not sure how feasible that is if the goal is to actually solve problems long term.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2018, 09:40:14 PM »

Offline JSD

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9950
  • Tommy Points: 1122
What I would suggest puts the drug cartels out of business essentially overnight. However, saying what I would argue is against CB Policy.

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2018, 09:44:52 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34888
  • Tommy Points: -27828
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
What I would suggest puts the drug cartels out of business essentially overnight. However, saying what I would argue is against CB Policy.

I suspect that cartels would move on to something else.  Guns, sex trafficking, rigging elections, something, while "legitimizing" their interests in their current trade of choice.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2018, 09:46:50 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 41647
  • Tommy Points: 2339
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
As long as drugs make as much money as they do, and as long as they're illegal, people will use extralegal methods to facilitate their distribution. Escalation is an easily predicted conclusion. America can't even figure out how to reconcile it's desire to consume incredible quantities of narcotics with its desire to outlaw them for 'the greater good' (that's a whole nother thing). As long as America can't get its house in order, Mexico will have incredible problems with billionaire startup pharmacists trying to jockey for power using any means necessary.

If there is a solution to be had that doesn't leave Mexico as a rebuilding nation once again, it won't come from America. It has to come from Mexico.

Also watch Sicario. It is just good.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2018, 09:50:35 PM »

Offline Sketch5

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2577
  • Tommy Points: 221
I've been saying for years now that we should go in with special teams an start taking out the drug cartels. There is a reason that Mexicans come here, where it's legally at first "vacation" and then stay or make the dangerous trek across the boarder. You don't see Canadians jumping the boarder like this. I met a family through a friend that ran from the cartel. They would make their kids do runs for them. Two Families to one home, and they all worked their butts off. And always in fear of getting caught, but much better than the alternative.

We should also help establish the government they seek that isn't run by criminals.

Yes this would cost more than a Wall up front, but the long term would be much more beneficial to both countries, and then we can have a working relationship with them.   

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 09:55:11 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7993
  • Tommy Points: 855
This is scary:

Quote
At least 113 candidates, pre-candidates, and current and former politicians have been killed and 300 more have suffered some form of aggression since September, according to Etellekt, a Mexico City–based public policy consultancy. Even the government’s tally — 34, which considers only candidates — pushes this particular death toll to nearly four per month.

Astonishing as these numbers are, they only tell part of the story: There are hundreds of candidates who have backed out of their races out of fear for their safety, and many others who have curbed their campaign activities. This poses a significant challenge to Mexico’s relatively young democracy, already crippled by systemic corruption and widespread impunity.

Anybody who is vaguely aware of the situation in Mexico understands how brutally violent the drug cartels are.

The torture videos they're putting out are unreal and the rival cartels continue to try to up each other in terms of shock value/scare tactics. Those people are just pure savages. No other way to describe how little regard they have for human life. 

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2018, 09:57:38 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34888
  • Tommy Points: -27828
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
Also watch Sicario. It is just good.

It is, and equally scary. Yet, many Americans see Mexico as either 1) a vacation spot or 2) a place that sends us people we don’t want.  What’s going on in Mexico isn’t far off from some of the things we’ve seen in Congo, Sierra Leone, etc., and it’s happening on our border.



Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2018, 10:01:04 PM »

Offline saltlover

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10441
  • Tommy Points: 2259
According to the GAO, at least 70% of guns used by Mexican cartels are smuggled from the US.  Our loose gun laws and looser enforcement have ramifications beyond our borders.

To be sure, there is no singular cause or solution.  But both demand for the cartels product and the source of their arms are largely from the US, so it is certainly not a problem that Mexico can deal with on its own.

https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/GAO-16-223
“When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 19:33-34

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2018, 10:03:27 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7993
  • Tommy Points: 855
Quote
Also watch Sicario. It is just good.

It is, and equally scary. Yet, many Americans see Mexico as either 1) a vacation spot or 2) a place that sends us people we don’t want.  What’s going on in Mexico isn’t far off from some of the things we’ve seen in Congo, Sierra Leone, etc., and it’s happening on our border.

And yet Sicario is rated G compared to the atrocities that really go on there.

Quote
Analysts offer a variety of explanations for the rising crime across Mexico, from drug cartels to the U.S. opioid crisis prompting cartels to switch from growing marijuana to producing heroin.

Mexico had the most murders on record in 2017, with 29,158 homicides. The homicide rate in the first two months of 2018 was already up 21% over the same period last year.

The U.S. State Department in January issued a strict travel advisory for five Mexican states, including Guerrero, home to Acapulco and Ixtapa. The “do not travel to” advisory put the states of Sinaloa, Colima, Michoacán, Guerrero and Tamaulipas (on the Texas border) on the same level as war-torn countries like Syria.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 10:53:59 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7833
  • Tommy Points: 827
  • Mr. Emoji
According to the GAO, at least 70% of guns used by Mexican cartels are smuggled from the US.  Our loose gun laws and looser enforcement have ramifications beyond our borders.

To be sure, there is no singular cause or solution.  But both demand for the cartels product and the source of their arms are largely from the US, so it is certainly not a problem that Mexico can deal with on its own.

https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/GAO-16-223

Nice try, broheim, but criminals gonna criminal no matter what you do, lol ;) ::) ;D.

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 11:08:12 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34888
  • Tommy Points: -27828
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
According to the GAO, at least 70% of guns used by Mexican cartels are smuggled from the US.  Our loose gun laws and looser enforcement have ramifications beyond our borders.

To be sure, there is no singular cause or solution.  But both demand for the cartels product and the source of their arms are largely from the US, so it is certainly not a problem that Mexico can deal with on its own.

https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/GAO-16-223

Nice try, broheim, but criminals gonna criminal no matter what you do, lol ;) ::) ;D.

You don’t think the cartels would find weapons even if every gun in the US was destroyed tomorrow?  They get them cheaper and easier through us, but they’d get them no matter what.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2018, 11:15:41 PM »

Offline saltlover

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10441
  • Tommy Points: 2259
According to the GAO, at least 70% of guns used by Mexican cartels are smuggled from the US.  Our loose gun laws and looser enforcement have ramifications beyond our borders.

To be sure, there is no singular cause or solution.  But both demand for the cartels product and the source of their arms are largely from the US, so it is certainly not a problem that Mexico can deal with on its own.

https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/GAO-16-223

Nice try, broheim, but criminals gonna criminal no matter what you do, lol ;) ::) ;D.

You don’t think the cartels would find weapons even if every gun in the US was destroyed tomorrow?  They get them cheaper and easier through us, but they’d get them no matter what.

I don’t think there would be nearly as many, no.  We supply the overwhelming majority of their guns, and taking the stance of “well, we don’t supply them all so let’s not do anything about it” is an immoral one our country has taken for decades.  Americans refuse to be inconvenienced no matter how many people in other countries might die because of it, and these days that view has extended to members of our own country as well.
“When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 19:33-34

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2018, 11:22:45 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34888
  • Tommy Points: -27828
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
According to the GAO, at least 70% of guns used by Mexican cartels are smuggled from the US.  Our loose gun laws and looser enforcement have ramifications beyond our borders.

To be sure, there is no singular cause or solution.  But both demand for the cartels product and the source of their arms are largely from the US, so it is certainly not a problem that Mexico can deal with on its own.

https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/GAO-16-223

Nice try, broheim, but criminals gonna criminal no matter what you do, lol ;) ::) ;D.

You don’t think the cartels would find weapons even if every gun in the US was destroyed tomorrow?  They get them cheaper and easier through us, but they’d get them no matter what.

I don’t think there would be nearly as many, no.  We supply the overwhelming majority of their guns, and taking the stance of “well, we don’t supply them all so let’s not do anything about it” is an immoral one our country has taken for decades.  Americans refuse to be inconvenienced no matter how many people in other countries might die because of it, and these days that view has extended to members of our own country as well.

The cartels are using machine guns, rocket launchers and grenades.  I don’t think they’d have a huge problem finding weapons, even if the US stopped providing them in botched FBI stings.

I just don’t think any amount of gun control in the US would significantly hamper the cartels.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2018, 11:28:50 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3335
  • Tommy Points: 29
According to the GAO, at least 70% of guns used by Mexican cartels are smuggled from the US.  Our loose gun laws and looser enforcement have ramifications beyond our borders.

To be sure, there is no singular cause or solution.  But both demand for the cartels product and the source of their arms are largely from the US, so it is certainly not a problem that Mexico can deal with on its own.

https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/GAO-16-223

Nice try, broheim, but criminals gonna criminal no matter what you do, lol ;) ::) ;D.

You don’t think the cartels would find weapons even if every gun in the US was destroyed tomorrow?  They get them cheaper and easier through us, but they’d get them no matter what.

I don’t think there would be nearly as many, no.  We supply the overwhelming majority of their guns, and taking the stance of “well, we don’t supply them all so let’s not do anything about it” is an immoral one our country has taken for decades.  Americans refuse to be inconvenienced no matter how many people in other countries might die because of it, and these days that view has extended to members of our own country as well.

The cartels are using machine guns, rocket launchers and grenades.  I don’t think they’d have a huge problem finding weapons, even if the US stopped providing them in botched FBI stings.

I just don’t think any amount of gun control in the US would significantly hamper the cartels.
Agree entirely with this

Re: Violence in Mexico
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2018, 11:30:48 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7833
  • Tommy Points: 827
  • Mr. Emoji
According to the GAO, at least 70% of guns used by Mexican cartels are smuggled from the US.  Our loose gun laws and looser enforcement have ramifications beyond our borders.

To be sure, there is no singular cause or solution.  But both demand for the cartels product and the source of their arms are largely from the US, so it is certainly not a problem that Mexico can deal with on its own.

https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/GAO-16-223

Nice try, broheim, but criminals gonna criminal no matter what you do, lol ;) ::) ;D.

You don’t think the cartels would find weapons even if every gun in the US was destroyed tomorrow?  They get them cheaper and easier through us, but they’d get them no matter what.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic, hence the emojis, so...