Author Topic: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.  (Read 1415 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2018, 11:30:06 AM »

Offline Atzar

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4198
  • Tommy Points: 723
Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch.  I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league.  Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. 


Yeah, I'm sure that people around the league think more highly of the beanpole with inefficient scoring and no defense over the player who showed versatile defense and composure while scoring 18 points per game for a team that came within one quarter of making the Finals.

The bolded isn't actually true, by the way.  Ingram still struggles from the line, but his shooting has improved a lot particularly from deep.  And he uses his length well on defense. 

Ingram is a very good prospect.  I wouldn't take him over Brown, but it's closer than this board wants to believe - perhaps even a push.

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2018, 12:21:34 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18871
  • Tommy Points: 886
Quote
Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch.  I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league.  Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example.  he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.

??  Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.

More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.

The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018).  In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3.  In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3.  He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.

There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing.  Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2018, 12:32:19 PM »

Offline colincb

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3424
  • Tommy Points: 281
  • Sick of all the winning
Jaylen Brown had a better second season than Ingram. Very similar offensive stats with Brown having the better total shooting% stat and Ingram the better assist rate. However, Brown is the better defender and the overall advanced stats favor Brown.

http://bkref.com/tiny/TCnJv
This is all about money laundering.

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2018, 12:32:47 PM »

Offline colincb

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3424
  • Tommy Points: 281
  • Sick of all the winning
Quote
Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch.  I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league.  Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example.  he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.

??  Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.

More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.

The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018).  In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3.  In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3.  He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.

There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing.  Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.

This is cherrypicking stats.
This is all about money laundering.

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2018, 12:41:35 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18871
  • Tommy Points: 886
Quote
Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch.  I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league.  Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example.  he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.

??  Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.

More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.

The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018).  In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3.  In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3.  He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.

There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing.  Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.

This is cherrypicking stats.
Or maybe it shows that the player that was considered very raw as a result of his age was turning the corner.  Maybe those last 2 months were a fluke.  Only time will tell, but there is a very real and distinct reason that everyone knew Simmons was going 1 and Ingram was going 2 in that draft and then it was a take your pick from the next 6 guys at 3-8. 

Ingram is almost a full year younger than Brown as well. 

I suspect if you polled NBA persons, in a redraft Ingram still goes 2.  Brown almost certainly goes 3 (whereas he wouldn't have at near the frequency closer to that draft). 

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2018, 12:43:31 PM »

Offline triboy16f

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20387
  • Tommy Points: 517
End of the day cant see it happen nor Leonard comfortable with the Boston media

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2018, 09:11:11 PM »

Offline colincb

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3424
  • Tommy Points: 281
  • Sick of all the winning
Quote
Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch.  I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league.  Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example.  he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.

??  Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.

More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.

The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018).  In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3.  In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3.  He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.

There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing.  Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.

This is cherrypicking stats.
Or maybe it shows that the player that was considered very raw as a result of his age was turning the corner.  Maybe those last 2 months were a fluke.  Only time will tell, but there is a very real and distinct reason that everyone knew Simmons was going 1 and Ingram was going 2 in that draft and then it was a take your pick from the next 6 guys at 3-8. 

Ingram is almost a full year younger than Brown as well. 

I suspect if you polled NBA persons, in a redraft Ingram still goes 2.  Brown almost certainly goes 3 (whereas he wouldn't have at near the frequency closer to that draft).

No, you cherrypicked 23 games out of a season to make the case that Ingram is better than Brown. 23 games aren't enough to make that claim like that especially given that it's at odds with the stats for the whole season.

I suspect you don't know what a poll of NBA GMs would say about who they would pick.
This is all about money laundering.

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2018, 09:27:55 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 807
  • Tommy Points: 97
Quote
Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch.  I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league.  Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example.  he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.

??  Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.

More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.

The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018).  In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3.  In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3.  He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.

There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing.  Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.
You're actually using his going 4 for 7 in March as a reason to suggest he's better than Brown. KGLL level of ridiculous.

Averaging 18.6 a game in one month against mostly awful competition in meaningless games is more relevant than Jaylen scoring 18/game in the playoffs........ Good call.



Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2018, 09:45:21 PM »

Offline byennie

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1947
  • Tommy Points: 252
Or maybe it shows that the player that was considered very raw as a result of his age was turning the corner.  Maybe those last 2 months were a fluke.  Only time will tell, but there is a very real and distinct reason that everyone knew Simmons was going 1 and Ingram was going 2 in that draft and then it was a take your pick from the next 6 guys at 3-8. 

Ingram is almost a full year younger than Brown as well. 

I suspect if you polled NBA persons, in a redraft Ingram still goes 2.  Brown almost certainly goes 3 (whereas he wouldn't have at near the frequency closer to that draft).

It could be a sign of his talent level, sure, but it's also cherry picking. Ingram made 41 three pointers the entire season... you can't go slice that down to a month and read much into it. If anything Brown has proven more as an outside shooter with 3x the makes at a higher percentage. Of course they are both young and projections are hard so it's not crazy to prefer Ingram long-term.

16/5/4 and a sweet stroke at age 20, I'd love to have him. If he learns to defend, watch out. I think you'd have a healthy debate among GMs.
---
Lucky17 Yahoo! Points League: Jackalopes
Offseason Tracker

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2018, 10:40:28 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7833
  • Tommy Points: 827
  • Mr. Emoji
Quote
Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch.  I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league.  Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example.  he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.

??  Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.

More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.

While he certainly is lacking in the athleticism department, what's even worse is that, in terms of agility/quickness, dude is really only rivaled by Kyle Anderson, imo, LOL. Had Ingram been white, I'm honestly unsure as to whether or not he even would have been drafted in 2016.

On the other hand, had he been a European prospect, I'm sure that everyone would have been gushing over his skill level ::). Give me a break.

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2018, 10:59:52 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7833
  • Tommy Points: 827
  • Mr. Emoji
ESPN did one of their "Seven trades we'd like to see for Kawhi Leonard" articles:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23295190/kawhi-leonard-trades-see-san-antonio-spurs-make-nba

I occasionally sense an underlying belief around here that ESPN has it in for Boston teams. Sometimes I just laugh it off, sometimes it hits home.

But what's with these trade suggestions? For example, they have Philly giving up Fultz, Covington and the No. 10 pick for Leonard. Portland gives up McCollum and a first. The Lakers give up Deng, Ball and Kuzma. Miami gives up pieces: Dragic, Richardson, Winslow, Adebayo.

I'm not saying that there aren't some decent prospects or players in that grouping, but here's what they suggest the Celtics give up:

Trade #1: Kyrie, 2018 #27 and "whatever other picks get the deal done."

Trade #2: Terry and Hayward for Kawhi and Mills.

Seriously? Prospects or decent players from everyone else, stars from the Celtics? DeMar DeRozan is the only other player they suggest that comes close.

I don't know who comes up with these ideas, but they need some help.*

Mike

*On the other hand, maybe they don't need help. They clearly did their job by getting me to click on the article and re-post it.

Why seven trades, though? Is this some kind of ESPN/Kevin Bacon spin-off?

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2018, 11:33:15 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3335
  • Tommy Points: 29
Quote
Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch.  I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league.  Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example.  he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.

??  Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.

More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.

While he certainly is lacking in the athleticism department, what's even worse is that, in terms of agility/quickness, dude is really only rivaled by Kyle Anderson, imo, LOL. Had Ingram been white, I'm honestly unsure as to whether or not he even would have been drafted in 2016.

On the other hand, had he been a European prospect, I'm sure that everyone would have been gushing over his skill level ::). Give me a break.
Hey donít you diss Slow-Mo!

People were still gushing over his skill level when he was at college. I remember the days when people were saying things like ďwould you rather draft LeBron (Simmons) or Durant (Ingram)?Ē Good times!
I donít think anyone would even consider taking Ingram over Brown, and after next season I can see Brown being on the same tier as Simmons

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2018, 11:44:47 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2340
  • Tommy Points: 244
We don't need Kawhi with all that baggage...AND the amount of money he'll get.

Tatum/Brown/Hayward are just fine.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2018, 12:07:47 AM »

Offline smokeablount

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1499
  • Tommy Points: 85
  • When my account was born, Mark Blount was our C :(
LOL. That Philly one is laughably bad, but that Miami one?? That's beyond delirious

One of the comments had me cackling though. Gotta give it to the ESPN crowd for being absolutely moronic
Quote
There is absolutely no way the Sixers would put Dario Saric in this deal and if they did, there would be a revolt among Sixers fans ... Plus give up Markelle Fultz and a first-round pick? Seriously? Oh and Jarryd Bayless? I will send him to the Spurs just for playing! First Saric is the heart of the Sixers team. Secondly, once Fultz is healthy, you will have a Ben Simmons-like player who will better defense.

Talk about out of touch with reality, rofl. Really puts some of the bad takes you see on here in perspective. I've never been more appreciative of celticsblog

ROFL that stuff is rich!!! ;D

That was discovered to be Brian Colangelo.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: ESPN "Seven trades for Kawhi." Ridiculous.
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2018, 12:15:28 AM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • Walter Brown
  • ********************************
  • Posts: 32652
  • Tommy Points: 5361
LOL. That Philly one is laughably bad, but that Miami one?? That's beyond delirious

One of the comments had me cackling though. Gotta give it to the ESPN crowd for being absolutely moronic
Quote
There is absolutely no way the Sixers would put Dario Saric in this deal and if they did, there would be a revolt among Sixers fans ... Plus give up Markelle Fultz and a first-round pick? Seriously? Oh and Jarryd Bayless? I will send him to the Spurs just for playing! First Saric is the heart of the Sixers team. Secondly, once Fultz is healthy, you will have a Ben Simmons-like player who will better defense.

Talk about out of touch with reality, rofl. Really puts some of the bad takes you see on here in perspective. I've never been more appreciative of celticsblog

ROFL that stuff is rich!!! ;D

That was discovered to be Brian Colangelo.
Actually it was his wife. Lol