Poll

Ultimately would you trade 2018 8th pick for 2 seasons of Irving?

Yes
44 (74.6%)
No
10 (16.9%)
Only if Irving signs an extension
5 (8.5%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Author Topic: Ultimately would you trade 2018 8th pick for 2 seasons of Irving? (poll)  (Read 2169 times)

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Offline Moranis

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If the trade was 2 seasons (one playoffs) of Kyrie for the 8th pick?  And he leaves for another team with no additional compensation?

No way. Why would anybody make that trade?

Two playoff runs with an elite player for a pick that in general results in a middle to low end starter?  So as an alternative hypothetical, let's say we offered Kyrie with only one year left back to Cleveland in exchange for the #8 pick.  Cleveland does that in a second.  If we added that he would pick up his option and be under control for 2 seasons, Cleveland would probably wet their pants.

It is too bad how all this worked out for Isaiah Thomas but I have no second thoughts on bringing in Kyrie or for losing out on the #8 pick (most expected this to be an even better pick, except maybe Ainge).  It was a cold-hearted decision to trade IT but in retrospect it was the right decision.

Kyrie may move on but who knows.  Kyrie's knee may explode  The #8 pick may end up being the sleeper of the draft and a future all star.  There may be all sorts of reasons to second guess this at some point in the future but right now this still looks like a steal for Boston.

One playoff run. The hypothetical isn’t two additional seasons, it’s last year and this coming season.

I’m not judging the trade. It has worked out, and I feel that Kyrie will resign. If somebody told me, though, that we’d definitely lose Kyrie after two seasons (and at best one playoff run), I’d turn it down.
Yeah that is where I'm at.  If it was 100% guaranteed that Irving was leaving after next season (and the team didn't know it so they didn't trade him again) then I wouldn't trade the 8th pick for him, especially when you consider Irving missed the entire playoffs and is still on the mend (and may not be the same). 

I was fine with the trade given it is far from given Irving won't be here or that Boston won't trade him.  Even if he leaves, it could potentially be a sign and trade where some late 1st's or something come back. 

Offline mutineer33

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I vote only if he signed an attention.  Even if top 10 picks only work out at a 40% or so clip ... the low cost contracts are critical.  Cannot really fault Kyrie for his position though.  That is far too much money to leave on the table if he is willing to gamble on himself for one more year, rather than the security of resigning earlier.

The real villain here is the CBA, which seems to encourage more player volitility in moving teams by discouraging resigning early. I don't think that was an intended consequence, and it needs to be fixed urgently.

I think we (Danny) would need to think carefully about throwing that much money on a 5 year deal to someone who misses as much time as he does, so this is a two way street, whereas a straight up extension would be more palatable as it would be such a lower cap hit.

I am a fan of Kyrie but I don't see him as a top 10 player in the league.  Maybe top 20 to 25.  If you are spending THAT much on a guy ... he better be "franchise".

All in all for everyone gloating about how badly we won the trade, if we fail to make the finals next year AND Kyrie leaves next year with us getting no compensation , this trade could look like a disaster for us. Michael Porter at number 8 would be a fantastic look for us, and the way IT was shipped out certainly hurt our image and cancelled out any notion of expecting player loyalty as we try to resign our own young stars. I say this as someone who enthusiastically supported the trade for Kyrie.

At some point the Celtics need a culture change within the organization .... from mercenary and cold hearted and only $$$ matters to getting back to Celtics Tradition and pride, where guys maybe give a hometown discount to remain a Celtics.   In the "Trader Danny" Era this is impossible. They have the coach for it. Can the GM reign in his ego for being in the headlines with every trade rumor, and instead take a more behind the scenes approach more focused on continuity rather than block buster deals.

As to Kyrie, I have posted elsewhere his heart is with the Knicks and he will be there once his contract expires if not sooner.

Online YoungOne87

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The number 8 pick?  Are you kidding me?  Have people looked at the history of that pick?

I would take Kyrie over any 3 of those picks.

Quote
2017 Frank Ntilikina, France – New York Knicks
2016 Marquese Chriss, Washington – Sacramento Kings
2015 Stanley Johnson, Arizona – Detroit Pistons
2014 Nik Stauskas, Michigan – Sacramento Kings
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Georgia – Detroit Pistons
2012 Terrence Ross, Washington – Toronto Raptors
2011 Brandon Knight, Kentucky – Detroit Pistons
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest – L.A. Clippers
2009 Jordan Hill, Arizona – New York Knicks
2008 Joe Alexander, West Virginia – Milwaukee Bucks
2007 Brandan Wright, North Carolina – Charlotte Bobcats
2006 Rudy Gay, Connecticut – Houston Rockets
2005 Channing Frye, Arizona – New York Knicks
2004 Rafael Araujo, BYU – Toronto Raptors
2003 T.J. Ford, Texas – Milwaukee Bucks
2002 Chris Wilcox, Maryland – L.A. Clippers
2001 DeSagana Diop, Oak Hill Academy (Va.) – Cleveland Cavaliers
2000 Jamal Crawford, Michigan – Cleveland Cavaliers

[dang] this list is terrible.  :o ;D

Offline Beat LA

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The number 8 pick?  Are you kidding me?  Have people looked at the history of that pick?

I would take Kyrie over any 3 of those picks.

Quote
2017 Frank Ntilikina, France – New York Knicks
2016 Marquese Chriss, Washington – Sacramento Kings
2015 Stanley Johnson, Arizona – Detroit Pistons
2014 Nik Stauskas, Michigan – Sacramento Kings
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Georgia – Detroit Pistons
2012 Terrence Ross, Washington – Toronto Raptors
2011 Brandon Knight, Kentucky – Detroit Pistons
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest – L.A. Clippers
2009 Jordan Hill, Arizona – New York Knicks
2008 Joe Alexander, West Virginia – Milwaukee Bucks
2007 Brandan Wright, North Carolina – Charlotte Bobcats
2006 Rudy Gay, Connecticut – Houston Rockets
2005 Channing Frye, Arizona – New York Knicks
2004 Rafael Araujo, BYU – Toronto Raptors
2003 T.J. Ford, Texas – Milwaukee Bucks
2002 Chris Wilcox, Maryland – L.A. Clippers
2001 DeSagana Diop, Oak Hill Academy (Va.) – Cleveland Cavaliers
2000 Jamal Crawford, Michigan – Cleveland Cavaliers

I'm probably looking at this incorrectly, but I'd rather have the 8th pick, by itself, in 2010, for example, than Kyrie :-\.

Offline Roy H.

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The number 8 pick?  Are you kidding me?  Have people looked at the history of that pick?

I would take Kyrie over any 3 of those picks.

Quote
2017 Frank Ntilikina, France – New York Knicks
2016 Marquese Chriss, Washington – Sacramento Kings
2015 Stanley Johnson, Arizona – Detroit Pistons
2014 Nik Stauskas, Michigan – Sacramento Kings
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Georgia – Detroit Pistons
2012 Terrence Ross, Washington – Toronto Raptors
2011 Brandon Knight, Kentucky – Detroit Pistons
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest – L.A. Clippers
2009 Jordan Hill, Arizona – New York Knicks
2008 Joe Alexander, West Virginia – Milwaukee Bucks
2007 Brandan Wright, North Carolina – Charlotte Bobcats
2006 Rudy Gay, Connecticut – Houston Rockets
2005 Channing Frye, Arizona – New York Knicks
2004 Rafael Araujo, BYU – Toronto Raptors
2003 T.J. Ford, Texas – Milwaukee Bucks
2002 Chris Wilcox, Maryland – L.A. Clippers
2001 DeSagana Diop, Oak Hill Academy (Va.) – Cleveland Cavaliers
2000 Jamal Crawford, Michigan – Cleveland Cavaliers

I'm probably looking at this incorrectly, but I'd rather have the 8th pick, by itself, in 2010, for example, than Kyrie :-\.

Since Gordon Hayward and Paul George were the next two guys picked, you wouldn’t be wrong.

One playoff run with Kyrie, or a cost-controlled Paul George on a rookie deal for 4-5 years? That’s a no-brainer.


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Offline Big333223

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The number 8 pick?  Are you kidding me?  Have people looked at the history of that pick?

I would take Kyrie over any 3 of those picks.

Quote
2017 Frank Ntilikina, France – New York Knicks
2016 Marquese Chriss, Washington – Sacramento Kings
2015 Stanley Johnson, Arizona – Detroit Pistons
2014 Nik Stauskas, Michigan – Sacramento Kings
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Georgia – Detroit Pistons
2012 Terrence Ross, Washington – Toronto Raptors
2011 Brandon Knight, Kentucky – Detroit Pistons
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest – L.A. Clippers
2009 Jordan Hill, Arizona – New York Knicks
2008 Joe Alexander, West Virginia – Milwaukee Bucks
2007 Brandan Wright, North Carolina – Charlotte Bobcats
2006 Rudy Gay, Connecticut – Houston Rockets
2005 Channing Frye, Arizona – New York Knicks
2004 Rafael Araujo, BYU – Toronto Raptors
2003 T.J. Ford, Texas – Milwaukee Bucks
2002 Chris Wilcox, Maryland – L.A. Clippers
2001 DeSagana Diop, Oak Hill Academy (Va.) – Cleveland Cavaliers
2000 Jamal Crawford, Michigan – Cleveland Cavaliers

[dang] this list is terrible.  :o ;D

Yeah. Rudy Gay is by far the best guy on this list. Who's second? Jamal Crawford. I'd definitely rather have Kyrie for 2 years than Jamal Crawford for 7.
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Offline Moranis

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The number 8 pick?  Are you kidding me?  Have people looked at the history of that pick?

I would take Kyrie over any 3 of those picks.

Quote
2017 Frank Ntilikina, France – New York Knicks
2016 Marquese Chriss, Washington – Sacramento Kings
2015 Stanley Johnson, Arizona – Detroit Pistons
2014 Nik Stauskas, Michigan – Sacramento Kings
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Georgia – Detroit Pistons
2012 Terrence Ross, Washington – Toronto Raptors
2011 Brandon Knight, Kentucky – Detroit Pistons
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest – L.A. Clippers
2009 Jordan Hill, Arizona – New York Knicks
2008 Joe Alexander, West Virginia – Milwaukee Bucks
2007 Brandan Wright, North Carolina – Charlotte Bobcats
2006 Rudy Gay, Connecticut – Houston Rockets
2005 Channing Frye, Arizona – New York Knicks
2004 Rafael Araujo, BYU – Toronto Raptors
2003 T.J. Ford, Texas – Milwaukee Bucks
2002 Chris Wilcox, Maryland – L.A. Clippers
2001 DeSagana Diop, Oak Hill Academy (Va.) – Cleveland Cavaliers
2000 Jamal Crawford, Michigan – Cleveland Cavaliers

[dang] this list is terrible.  :o ;D

Yeah. Rudy Gay is by far the best guy on this list. Who's second? Jamal Crawford. I'd definitely rather have Kyrie for 2 years than Jamal Crawford for 7.
Sure but in the last 10ish years, Joakim Noah, DeMar DeRozan, Gordon Hayward, Kemba Walker, Andre Drummond have all been the 9th pick.  Going back further you get Amar'e Stoudemire and Andre Iguodala.  The last 3, #9 picks in the 90's were Tracy McGrady, Dirk Nowitzki, and Shawn Marion.  Recent #10 picks include CJ McCollum, Paul George, Brook Lopez as well as some solid players like Andrew Bynum, Austin Rivers, Brandon Jennings, and the still developing Thon Maker and Justice Winslow.  From 1998 to 2002, the 10th picks were Paul Pierce, Jason Terry, Keyon Dooling, Joe Johnson, and Caron Butler.  Some recent 11th picks include Myles Turner, Klay Thompson, and JJ Redick.  Heck even Domantas Sabonis looks like a solid player.

Just because teams flub the 8th pick doesn't mean there isn't generally a lot of talent available. 

Offline Redz

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I know IT's stock has dropped, but we can't completely dismiss the fact that he was a second team all nba team member when he was traded. 

So yes, I'd trade the 8th pick for a two year rental on Irving, but it was so much more than that when it was consummated.  Who knew the Nets pick would fall to 8th too?

It's pretty crazy that after all was said and done between the Cavs and Celts the only guy to set foot on the court for any game time action during the ECF rematch was Zizic (and that was just garbage time).

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Offline Fafnir

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No I wouldn't and I don't think Ainge would either.

That's why the C's didn't make the deal till they talked to Kyrie's camp and confirmed he was willing to look at Boston as a long term home. (which he followed through on by waiving his trade kicker)

Now that conversation that happens two years prior to his actual FA is not a guarantee that he stays, but the its consistently been reported the C's are willing to gamble that Stevens/Org can convince players to stay. So I get taking that chance with the 8th pick, Crowder, IT, and Zizic.

Offline Big333223

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The number 8 pick?  Are you kidding me?  Have people looked at the history of that pick?

I would take Kyrie over any 3 of those picks.

Quote
2017 Frank Ntilikina, France – New York Knicks
2016 Marquese Chriss, Washington – Sacramento Kings
2015 Stanley Johnson, Arizona – Detroit Pistons
2014 Nik Stauskas, Michigan – Sacramento Kings
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Georgia – Detroit Pistons
2012 Terrence Ross, Washington – Toronto Raptors
2011 Brandon Knight, Kentucky – Detroit Pistons
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest – L.A. Clippers
2009 Jordan Hill, Arizona – New York Knicks
2008 Joe Alexander, West Virginia – Milwaukee Bucks
2007 Brandan Wright, North Carolina – Charlotte Bobcats
2006 Rudy Gay, Connecticut – Houston Rockets
2005 Channing Frye, Arizona – New York Knicks
2004 Rafael Araujo, BYU – Toronto Raptors
2003 T.J. Ford, Texas – Milwaukee Bucks
2002 Chris Wilcox, Maryland – L.A. Clippers
2001 DeSagana Diop, Oak Hill Academy (Va.) – Cleveland Cavaliers
2000 Jamal Crawford, Michigan – Cleveland Cavaliers

[dang] this list is terrible.  :o ;D

Yeah. Rudy Gay is by far the best guy on this list. Who's second? Jamal Crawford. I'd definitely rather have Kyrie for 2 years than Jamal Crawford for 7.
Sure but in the last 10ish years, Joakim Noah, DeMar DeRozan, Gordon Hayward, Kemba Walker, Andre Drummond have all been the 9th pick.  Going back further you get Amar'e Stoudemire and Andre Iguodala.  The last 3, #9 picks in the 90's were Tracy McGrady, Dirk Nowitzki, and Shawn Marion.  Recent #10 picks include CJ McCollum, Paul George, Brook Lopez as well as some solid players like Andrew Bynum, Austin Rivers, Brandon Jennings, and the still developing Thon Maker and Justice Winslow.  From 1998 to 2002, the 10th picks were Paul Pierce, Jason Terry, Keyon Dooling, Joe Johnson, and Caron Butler.  Some recent 11th picks include Myles Turner, Klay Thompson, and JJ Redick.  Heck even Domantas Sabonis looks like a solid player.

Just because teams flub the 8th pick doesn't mean there isn't generally a lot of talent available.

Obviously this is not an exact science. I think the point is just to show that a pick in that range is a crap shoot. Which it is.

If you're expanding to the 11th pick (going back to '00), you're talking about a pool of 68 players. Of the ones you mentioned, I'd say there are 9 players that are of the caliber of Kyrie. Other might think more or less but, for me, that means there's about a 13% chance of having a comparable player on the board. But then I'd have to know for sure who the best pick would be or if that player exists at all in the given draft I'm selecting from.

A good player can be gotten at #8 but it's unlikely. I'd rather have the certainty (health provided, but that's true of the draft pick as well) of a first overall caliber talent for 2 years.
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Offline jambr380

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Obviously this is not an exact science. I think the point is just to show that a pick in that range is a crap shoot. Which it is.

If you're expanding to the 11th pick (going back to '00), you're talking about a pool of 68 players. Of the ones you mentioned, I'd say there are 9 players that are of the caliber of Kyrie. Other might think more or less but, for me, that means there's about a 13% chance of having a comparable player on the board. But then I'd have to know for sure who the best pick would be or if that player exists at all in the given draft I'm selecting from.

A good player can be gotten at #8 but it's unlikely. I'd rather have the certainty (health provided, but that's true of the draft pick as well) of a first overall caliber talent for 2 years.

Why do people keep saying 2 years? I understand that Kyrie's presence helped us gain the playoff position we did this year, but the result was still basically the same. Maybe we make it to the 2nd round instead - I don't know - who cares? Once Kyrie went down, it was over.

So essentially we end up with one Kyrie playoff run...hopefully. He still needs to be healthy when we go for it against possibly the best team of all-time. If Kyrie leaves after that and we don't win, then of course I would take the #8 and Crowder. At least they are cost controlled assets.

Offline PhoSita

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Yes, considering the Celts could have made the Finals with him this season and may make the Finals with him next season.
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Offline Big333223

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Obviously this is not an exact science. I think the point is just to show that a pick in that range is a crap shoot. Which it is.

If you're expanding to the 11th pick (going back to '00), you're talking about a pool of 68 players. Of the ones you mentioned, I'd say there are 9 players that are of the caliber of Kyrie. Other might think more or less but, for me, that means there's about a 13% chance of having a comparable player on the board. But then I'd have to know for sure who the best pick would be or if that player exists at all in the given draft I'm selecting from.

A good player can be gotten at #8 but it's unlikely. I'd rather have the certainty (health provided, but that's true of the draft pick as well) of a first overall caliber talent for 2 years.

Why do people keep saying 2 years? I understand that Kyrie's presence helped us gain the playoff position we did this year, but the result was still basically the same. Maybe we make it to the 2nd round instead - I don't know - who cares? Once Kyrie went down, it was over.

So essentially we end up with one Kyrie playoff run...hopefully. He still needs to be healthy when we go for it against possibly the best team of all-time. If Kyrie leaves after that and we don't win, then of course I would take the #8 and Crowder. At least they are cost controlled assets.

Because even though he missed the playoffs he still played 60 regular season games and getting him for that time matters.

It matters just in being able to watch good basketball for a season but it also matters because without Kyrie, I don't think you can say the team would perform as well in the postseason the same way if they never had Kyrie at all. And the regular season record without Kyrie, they almost definitely don't have homecourt and probably lose in the first round instead of the ECF which is a big difference to me.
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Offline PhoSita

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Since Gordon Hayward and Paul George were the next two guys picked, you wouldn’t be wrong.

One playoff run with Kyrie, or a cost-controlled Paul George on a rookie deal for 4-5 years? That’s a no-brainer.

But that assumes, of course, that you're guaranteed to hit on a player like that with the 8th pick, which is far from a safe assumption.
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Offline Roy H.

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Since Gordon Hayward and Paul George were the next two guys picked, you wouldn’t be wrong.

One playoff run with Kyrie, or a cost-controlled Paul George on a rookie deal for 4-5 years? That’s a no-brainer.

But that assumes, of course, that you're guaranteed to hit on a player like that with the 8th pick, which is far from a safe assumption.

The no-brainer aspect of it is.  Rather, it's more like "Do I trust Danny to find a good player at #8".  If the answer is yes, then you have to trust that that player is worth more than one playoff run.

It's purely hypothetical, of course, because we've all got to hope that Kyrie isn't an idiot who is constantly looking for greener pastures.  I'm willing to trust that he values money and winning over living in NYC.  Of course, Marbury had a "greener pastures" mindset, got his ultimate Knicks wish, and shortly thereafter was eating Vaseline before becoming a Chinese basketball god.


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