Author Topic: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)  (Read 1228 times)

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Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2018, 10:49:54 AM »

Online celticinorlando

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I think the new leader in North Korea is a very different animal than his Dad (his grandfather was before my time).   I can't fault anything that Trump has done specifically related to this summit but I think it is more about NK than USA.  The new leader seems much more reasonable.

Trump will for sure be taking some very dramatic victory laps regarding this but as others have said, there is not much there.  The situation is far better than missile tests and Trump bragging about how big his button is.  It is the same as it always has been except now NK has nuclear weapons.

Reasonable? Really? Starving his own people, brutally executing anyone who disagrees with him. He killed a person for falling asleep in a meeting. Has set up concentration camps.

Not too long ago Trump denounced this guy in a speech to South Korea and said he should be isolated from the world. Today he is in love with him.
“The rim is looking bigger and bigger every game.”

 Paul Pierce

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2018, 10:51:46 AM »

Online kozlodoev

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I think the new leader in North Korea is a very different animal than his Dad (his grandfather was before my time).   I can't fault anything that Trump has done specifically related to this summit but I think it is more about NK than USA.  The new leader seems much more reasonable.

Trump will for sure be taking some very dramatic victory laps regarding this but as others have said, there is not much there.  The situation is far better than missile tests and Trump bragging about how big his button is.  It is the same as it always has been except now NK has nuclear weapons.

Reasonable? Really? Starving his own people, brutally executing anyone who disagrees with him. He killed a person for falling asleep in a meeting. Has set up concentration camps.

Not too long ago Trump denounced this guy in a speech to South Korea and said he should be isolated from the world. Today he is in love with him.
The North Koreans aren't stupid. They caught on pretty quickly that you can get everything you crave from Trump and you don't have to give up anything as long as you kiss the pinky ring.
(Formerly) managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2018, 10:54:13 AM »

Online celticinorlando

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I think the new leader in North Korea is a very different animal than his Dad (his grandfather was before my time).   I can't fault anything that Trump has done specifically related to this summit but I think it is more about NK than USA.  The new leader seems much more reasonable.

Trump will for sure be taking some very dramatic victory laps regarding this but as others have said, there is not much there.  The situation is far better than missile tests and Trump bragging about how big his button is.  It is the same as it always has been except now NK has nuclear weapons.

Reasonable? Really? Starving his own people, brutally executing anyone who disagrees with him. He killed a person for falling asleep in a meeting. Has set up concentration camps.

Not too long ago Trump denounced this guy in a speech to South Korea and said he should be isolated from the world. Today he is in love with him.
The North Koreans aren't stupid. They caught on pretty quickly that you can get everything you crave from Trump and you don't have to give up anything as long as you kiss the pinky ring.

All about the bench front Condos Trump wants to build there.
“The rim is looking bigger and bigger every game.”

 Paul Pierce

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2018, 10:54:57 AM »

Offline tonydelk

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I'm hopeful as well, just like I was hopeful on Obama's agreement with Iran.
This is part of politics and statecraft. Nothing is perfect.
But, the general direction is a good one, and kudos to Trump for that (and this is coming from someone who is most definitely not a Trump supporter).
The nuclear deal with Iran had hundreds and hundreds of pages of specific actions that Iran had to take, as well as mechanisms of verification by an independent international watchdog.

Comparing this one-page piece of toilet paper with the Iran deal should be an affront to just about anyone who has a clue, and is most certainly an embarrassment to the United States.

For the record, NK this is about the third time that NK commits to "working toward complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula". For those who don't do detail, by that they mean that the US will withdraw their military from the region and pull their nuclear shield from South Korea. Also, committing to "work toward" is not the same as committing to a final outcome (that's why the two previous agreements never got anywhere).

There's a whole separate conversation about the US President meeting with Kim as an equal. The Rodon Simmung has propaganda materials for decades.

Nobody is calling this a finalized agreement. It’s a starting point.

I'm not stating I am a trump supporter but this is the 1st time Kim has sat with the US EVER.  I don't trust the guy but the fact that he sat down with the US is history in itself.  I doubt anything will come of this but it's not like Kim was looking to meet with Obama.  It's a start and if this doesn't work then it gives the US every reason to come down hard on Kim showing we made ever effort to solve this peacefully.  This guy is a monster and needs dealt with.

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2018, 10:58:57 AM »

Offline Cman

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I'm hopeful as well, just like I was hopeful on Obama's agreement with Iran.
This is part of politics and statecraft. Nothing is perfect.
But, the general direction is a good one, and kudos to Trump for that (and this is coming from someone who is most definitely not a Trump supporter).
The nuclear deal with Iran had hundreds and hundreds of pages of specific actions that Iran had to take, as well as mechanisms of verification by an independent international watchdog.

Comparing this one-page piece of toilet paper with the Iran deal should be an affront to just about anyone who has a clue, and is most certainly an embarrassment to the United States.

For the record, NK this is about the third time that NK commits to "working toward complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula". For those who don't do detail, by that they mean that the US will withdraw their military from the region and pull their nuclear shield from South Korea. Also, committing to "work toward" is not the same as committing to a final outcome (that's why the two previous agreements never got anywhere).

There's a whole separate conversation about the US President meeting with Kim as an equal. The Rodon Simmung has propaganda materials for decades.

I completely agree with you on the Iran deal. That was a huge success relative to what has happened so far with NK.

But, come on, Trump's meeting with Kim is a step in the right direction, as much as I dislike both men. Will the meeting/agreement ultimately end up nowhere? Probably. But I think the world is on an ever so slightly better trajectory than it was 6 months ago.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2018, 10:59:18 AM »

Offline greece666

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Yeah, the more i read about it, the more apparent it is that Kim has been wanting to be taken seriously for a long time; meeting with him was never an obstacle, it's what he wants to legitimize his dictatorship. Meeting with him while getting some concrete progress on liberties, human rights, de-nuclearization, etc, was the barrier to prior meetings. So Trump got none of those, but got photos, legitimization of his regime, AND a promise to decrease US support for South Korea on the border.

Any bets on amount of time before there's a Trump Hotel in N Korea?

If this is what you want, you should nuke them. I'm not even kidding, this is where this line of argument leads to.

Ppl in the DPRK supposedly already live in hell, how exactly did the meeting make things worse.
Honest question, Fan from VT, Kozlo, or anyone else I'm curious about your answers.


Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2018, 11:00:57 AM »

Offline gift

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I'm hopeful as well, just like I was hopeful on Obama's agreement with Iran.
This is part of politics and statecraft. Nothing is perfect.
But, the general direction is a good one, and kudos to Trump for that (and this is coming from someone who is most definitely not a Trump supporter).
The nuclear deal with Iran had hundreds and hundreds of pages of specific actions that Iran had to take, as well as mechanisms of verification by an independent international watchdog.

Comparing this one-page piece of toilet paper with the Iran deal should be an affront to just about anyone who has a clue, and is most certainly an embarrassment to the United States.

For the record, NK this is about the third time that NK commits to "working toward complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula". For those who don't do detail, by that they mean that the US will withdraw their military from the region and pull their nuclear shield from South Korea. Also, committing to "work toward" is not the same as committing to a final outcome (that's why the two previous agreements never got anywhere).

There's a whole separate conversation about the US President meeting with Kim as an equal. The Rodon Simmung has propaganda materials for decades.

I completely agree with you on the Iran deal. That was a huge success relative to what has happened so far with NK.

But, come on, Trump's meeting with Kim is a step in the right direction, as much as I dislike both men. Will the meeting/agreement ultimately end up nowhere? Probably. But I think the world is on an ever so slightly better trajectory than it was 6 months ago.

Yeah, I really just don't see the terrible downside. Worst case is we end up back where we were. According to alarmists a couple of months ago, the worst case scenario was nuclear war with N. Korea. Aren't we moving in the right direction here?

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2018, 11:01:13 AM »

Offline Cman

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I'm hopeful as well, just like I was hopeful on Obama's agreement with Iran.
This is part of politics and statecraft. Nothing is perfect.
But, the general direction is a good one, and kudos to Trump for that (and this is coming from someone who is most definitely not a Trump supporter).
The nuclear deal with Iran had hundreds and hundreds of pages of specific actions that Iran had to take, as well as mechanisms of verification by an independent international watchdog.

Comparing this one-page piece of toilet paper with the Iran deal should be an affront to just about anyone who has a clue, and is most certainly an embarrassment to the United States.

For the record, NK this is about the third time that NK commits to "working toward complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula". For those who don't do detail, by that they mean that the US will withdraw their military from the region and pull their nuclear shield from South Korea. Also, committing to "work toward" is not the same as committing to a final outcome (that's why the two previous agreements never got anywhere).

There's a whole separate conversation about the US President meeting with Kim as an equal. The Rodon Simmung has propaganda materials for decades.

Nobody is calling this a finalized agreement. It’s a starting point.

I'm not stating I am a trump supporter but this is the 1st time Kim has sat with the US EVER.  I don't trust the guy but the fact that he sat down with the US is history in itself.  I doubt anything will come of this but it's not like Kim was looking to meet with Obama.  It's a start and if this doesn't work then it gives the US every reason to come down hard on Kim showing we made ever effort to solve this peacefully.  This guy is a monster and needs dealt with.

Though it is worth noting that prior administrations (Clinton) have struck deals with North Korea in the past. In other words, Trump's meeting was a good first step. But until he strikes an actual agreement, like Clinton did with North Korea, and Obama did with Iran, there's not much there (except hope, and I do like hope).
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2018, 11:01:15 AM »

Online kozlodoev

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I'm not stating I am a trump supporter but this is the 1st time Kim has sat with the US EVER.  I don't trust the guy but the fact that he sat down with the US is history in itself.  I doubt anything will come of this but it's not like Kim was looking to meet with Obama.  It's a start and if this doesn't work then it gives the US every reason to come down hard on Kim showing we made ever effort to solve this peacefully.  This guy is a monster and needs dealt with.
North Korea was looking to meet with anyone and everyone who would listen. It's just that most self-respectable administrations demanded concrete verifiable progress with denuclearization and human rights before they grant the regime the time of day.

The US is granting NK a state visit, why do people behave like it's the other way round? Is that what "making America great" means?
(Formerly) managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2018, 11:02:32 AM »

Online celticinorlando

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Yeah, the more i read about it, the more apparent it is that Kim has been wanting to be taken seriously for a long time; meeting with him was never an obstacle, it's what he wants to legitimize his dictatorship. Meeting with him while getting some concrete progress on liberties, human rights, de-nuclearization, etc, was the barrier to prior meetings. So Trump got none of those, but got photos, legitimization of his regime, AND a promise to decrease US support for South Korea on the border.

Any bets on amount of time before there's a Trump Hotel in N Korea?

If this is what you want, you should nuke them. I'm not even kidding, this is where this line of argument leads to.

Ppl in the DPRK supposedly already live in hell, how exactly did the meeting make things worse.
Honest question, Fan from VT, Kozlo, or anyone else I'm curious about your answers.

Could have worked the idea of improving human rights into this. Instead it was ignored.
“The rim is looking bigger and bigger every game.”

 Paul Pierce

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2018, 11:04:53 AM »

Offline gift

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Yeah, the more i read about it, the more apparent it is that Kim has been wanting to be taken seriously for a long time; meeting with him was never an obstacle, it's what he wants to legitimize his dictatorship. Meeting with him while getting some concrete progress on liberties, human rights, de-nuclearization, etc, was the barrier to prior meetings. So Trump got none of those, but got photos, legitimization of his regime, AND a promise to decrease US support for South Korea on the border.

Any bets on amount of time before there's a Trump Hotel in N Korea?

If this is what you want, you should nuke them. I'm not even kidding, this is where this line of argument leads to.

Ppl in the DPRK supposedly already live in hell, how exactly did the meeting make things worse.
Honest question, Fan from VT, Kozlo, or anyone else I'm curious about your answers.

I don't really see an argument against legitimizing Kim's regime either. There's no question of who is in charge. It's not like there are rival factions and you don't want to legitimize one over the other.

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2018, 11:06:05 AM »

Online kozlodoev

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Ppl in the DPRK supposedly already live in hell, how exactly did the meeting make things worse.
Honest question, Fan from VT, Kozlo, or anyone else I'm curious about your answers.
All you need to know is in this article from the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/12/trump-nuclear-north-korea-kim-jong-un?CMP=fb_gu
(Formerly) managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2018, 11:07:35 AM »

Offline gift

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I'm not stating I am a trump supporter but this is the 1st time Kim has sat with the US EVER.  I don't trust the guy but the fact that he sat down with the US is history in itself.  I doubt anything will come of this but it's not like Kim was looking to meet with Obama.  It's a start and if this doesn't work then it gives the US every reason to come down hard on Kim showing we made ever effort to solve this peacefully.  This guy is a monster and needs dealt with.
North Korea was looking to meet with anyone and everyone who would listen. It's just that most self-respectable administrations demanded concrete verifiable progress with denuclearization and human rights before they grant the regime the time of day.

The US is granting NK a state visit, why do people behave like it's the other way round? Is that what "making America great" means?

And whose lead were they following? They didn't all independently decide to blackball N. Korea.

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2018, 11:09:55 AM »

Online celticinorlando

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Yeah, the more i read about it, the more apparent it is that Kim has been wanting to be taken seriously for a long time; meeting with him was never an obstacle, it's what he wants to legitimize his dictatorship. Meeting with him while getting some concrete progress on liberties, human rights, de-nuclearization, etc, was the barrier to prior meetings. So Trump got none of those, but got photos, legitimization of his regime, AND a promise to decrease US support for South Korea on the border.

Any bets on amount of time before there's a Trump Hotel in N Korea?

If this is what you want, you should nuke them. I'm not even kidding, this is where this line of argument leads to.

Ppl in the DPRK supposedly already live in hell, how exactly did the meeting make things worse.
Honest question, Fan from VT, Kozlo, or anyone else I'm curious about your answers.

I don't really see an argument against legitimizing Kim's regime either. There's no question of who is in charge. It's not like there are rival factions and you don't want to legitimize one over the other.

Because it make it ok what the guy does to his own people. He is a brutal dictator that takes joy in starvation, concentration camps and killing people. To not get these issues addressed and to say it is an honor to meet with Kim, makes these actions look acceptable to the leader of the free world
“The rim is looking bigger and bigger every game.”

 Paul Pierce

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2018, 11:14:52 AM »

Online kozlodoev

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I'm not stating I am a trump supporter but this is the 1st time Kim has sat with the US EVER.  I don't trust the guy but the fact that he sat down with the US is history in itself.  I doubt anything will come of this but it's not like Kim was looking to meet with Obama.  It's a start and if this doesn't work then it gives the US every reason to come down hard on Kim showing we made ever effort to solve this peacefully.  This guy is a monster and needs dealt with.
North Korea was looking to meet with anyone and everyone who would listen. It's just that most self-respectable administrations demanded concrete verifiable progress with denuclearization and human rights before they grant the regime the time of day.

The US is granting NK a state visit, why do people behave like it's the other way round? Is that what "making America great" means?

And whose lead were they following? They didn't all independently decide to blackball N. Korea.
I've got no idea what you're trying to say. You seem to be claiming that this is some sort of a historic moment. With this, I agree. It's a historic moment for North Korea, they finally got their seat on the table and had to give up virtually nothing in return. I'm sure the Presidium are ecstatic.
(Formerly) managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com