Author Topic: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)  (Read 1218 times)

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Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« on: June 12, 2018, 09:57:18 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2018, 10:12:04 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Im hopeful.


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Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2018, 10:16:33 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Im hopeful.
You surely jest (or have no idea about the matter at hand).
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Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2018, 10:18:40 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Im hopeful.
You surely jest (or have no idea about the matter at hand).


Can we be anything but hopeful? 

Feeling happy, secure, trusting,excited....Not likely.


But hopeful?   Why not.

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Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2018, 10:26:36 AM »

Offline Cman

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I'm hopeful as well, just like I was hopeful on Obama's agreement with Iran.
This is part of politics and statecraft. Nothing is perfect.
But, the general direction is a good one, and kudos to Trump for that (and this is coming from someone who is most definitely not a Trump supporter).
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Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2018, 10:31:38 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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United States got nothing out of this. In about six months to a year when North Korea does nothing things will be back to where we had been.

I just wish this administration cared about our allies as much as he cares about our enemies. He bends a knee to Russia and NK, two brutal dictators.
The rim is looking bigger and bigger every game.

 Paul Pierce

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2018, 10:34:28 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I'm hopeful as well, just like I was hopeful on Obama's agreement with Iran.
This is part of politics and statecraft. Nothing is perfect.
But, the general direction is a good one, and kudos to Trump for that (and this is coming from someone who is most definitely not a Trump supporter).
The nuclear deal with Iran had hundreds and hundreds of pages of specific actions that Iran had to take, as well as mechanisms of verification by an independent international watchdog.

Comparing this one-page piece of toilet paper with the Iran deal should be an affront to just about anyone who has a clue, and is most certainly an embarrassment to the United States.

For the record, NK this is about the third time that NK commits to "working toward complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula". For those who don't do detail, by that they mean that the US will withdraw their military from the region and pull their nuclear shield from South Korea. Also, committing to "work toward" is not the same as committing to a final outcome (that's why the two previous agreements never got anywhere).

There's a whole separate conversation about the US President meeting with Kim as an equal. The Rodon Simmung has propaganda materials for decades.
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Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2018, 10:38:17 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I'm hopeful as well, just like I was hopeful on Obama's agreement with Iran.
This is part of politics and statecraft. Nothing is perfect.
But, the general direction is a good one, and kudos to Trump for that (and this is coming from someone who is most definitely not a Trump supporter).
The nuclear deal with Iran had hundreds and hundreds of pages of specific actions that Iran had to take, as well as mechanisms of verification by an independent international watchdog.

Comparing this one-page piece of toilet paper with the Iran deal should be an affront to just about anyone who has a clue, and is most certainly an embarrassment to the United States.

For the record, NK this is about the third time that NK commits to "working toward complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula". For those who don't do detail, by that they mean that the US will withdraw their military from the region and pull their nuclear shield from South Korea. Also, committing to "work toward" is not the same as committing to a final outcome (that's why the two previous agreements never got anywhere).

There's a whole separate conversation about the US President meeting with Kim as an equal. The Rodon Simmung has propaganda materials for decades.

Nobody is calling this a finalized agreement. Its a starting point.


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DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2018, 10:38:54 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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United States got nothing out of this. In about six months to a year when North Korea does nothing things will be back to where we had been.

I just wish this administration cared about our allies as much as he cares about our enemies. He bends a knee to Russia and NK, two brutal dictators.
On the other hand, the United States gave up just about everything they can't have back. Trump can talk all he wants about the sanctions still being in place. But you can reinstate sanctions at your pleasure. You can't take back the handshake, the US/NK flag logos, and rolling out the red carpet to a hereditary dictator who starved his own people to death.

On the other hand, we got to know that North Korean beaches look like a great place to build a condo, so I guess all is fine in the word.
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Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2018, 10:39:22 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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I'm hopeful as well, just like I was hopeful on Obama's agreement with Iran.
This is part of politics and statecraft. Nothing is perfect.
But, the general direction is a good one, and kudos to Trump for that (and this is coming from someone who is most definitely not a Trump supporter).
The nuclear deal with Iran had hundreds and hundreds of pages of specific actions that Iran had to take, as well as mechanisms of verification by an independent international watchdog.

Comparing this one-page piece of toilet paper with the Iran deal should be an affront to just about anyone who has a clue, and is most certainly an embarrassment to the United States.

For the record, NK this is about the third time that NK commits to "working toward complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula". For those who don't do detail, by that they mean that the US will withdraw their military from the region and pull their nuclear shield from South Korea. Also, committing to "work toward" is not the same as committing to a final outcome (that's why the two previous agreements never got anywhere).

There's a whole separate conversation about the US President meeting with Kim as an equal. The Rodon Simmung has propaganda materials for decades.

Kim did this all for the photo op to legitimize himself. Nothing more. I love how Trump on every subject speaks in future tense. We are going to have a great plan...He has no idea what is going on and that ignorance is dangerous.

And he wants to build in NK so that is the underlying motivation for all of this.
The rim is looking bigger and bigger every game.

 Paul Pierce

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2018, 10:44:29 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Yeah, the more i read about it, the more apparent it is that Kim has been wanting to be taken seriously for a long time; meeting with him was never an obstacle, it's what he wants to legitimize his dictatorship. Meeting with him while getting some concrete progress on liberties, human rights, de-nuclearization, etc, was the barrier to prior meetings. So Trump got none of those, but got photos, legitimization of his regime, AND a promise to decrease US support for South Korea on the border.

Any bets on amount of time before there's a Trump Hotel in N Korea?

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2018, 10:44:49 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I'm hopeful as well, just like I was hopeful on Obama's agreement with Iran.
This is part of politics and statecraft. Nothing is perfect.
But, the general direction is a good one, and kudos to Trump for that (and this is coming from someone who is most definitely not a Trump supporter).
The nuclear deal with Iran had hundreds and hundreds of pages of specific actions that Iran had to take, as well as mechanisms of verification by an independent international watchdog.

Comparing this one-page piece of toilet paper with the Iran deal should be an affront to just about anyone who has a clue, and is most certainly an embarrassment to the United States.

For the record, NK this is about the third time that NK commits to "working toward complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula". For those who don't do detail, by that they mean that the US will withdraw their military from the region and pull their nuclear shield from South Korea. Also, committing to "work toward" is not the same as committing to a final outcome (that's why the two previous agreements never got anywhere).

There's a whole separate conversation about the US President meeting with Kim as an equal. The Rodon Simmung has propaganda materials for decades.

Nobody is calling this a finalized agreement. Its a starting point.
People don't seem to realize that granting the dictator a de facto state visit is a hefty price to pay for a "starting point".

We've had multiple "starting points" in the past (all achieved without trotting out US/NK flag logos) that got nowhere because NK neither wants to disclose the full capacity of their arsenal, nor agree to independent verification (Iran agreed to both, btw).

To put it in simpler terms, Trump just paid $1 million dollars for a hot-dog, which is apparently perfectly fine because the hot dog is very tasty.
(Formerly) managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2018, 10:45:17 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I think the new leader in North Korea is a very different animal than his Dad (his grandfather was before my time).   I can't fault anything that Trump has done specifically related to this summit but I think it is more about NK than USA.  The new leader seems much more reasonable.

Trump will for sure be taking some very dramatic victory laps regarding this but as others have said, there is not much there.  The situation is far better than missile tests and Trump bragging about how big his button is.  It is the same as it always has been except now NK has nuclear weapons.

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2018, 10:45:46 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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I thought this summed things up:

This week Trump treated the leader of our closest ally (Canada) like an enemy of America, and praised to the heavens a man who executes innocent people with anti-aircraft guns on a killing field in front of an audience.
The rim is looking bigger and bigger every game.

 Paul Pierce

Re: Kim-Trump Summit (no, not THAT Kim)
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2018, 10:46:27 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Yeah, the more i read about it, the more apparent it is that Kim has been wanting to be taken seriously for a long time; meeting with him was never an obstacle, it's what he wants to legitimize his dictatorship. Meeting with him while getting some concrete progress on liberties, human rights, de-nuclearization, etc, was the barrier to prior meetings. So Trump got none of those, but got photos, legitimization of his regime, AND a promise to decrease US support for South Korea on the border.

Any bets on amount of time before there's a Trump Hotel in N Korea?
You certainly caught this  comment from the summit, right?

Quote
"They (North Korea) have great beaches. You see that whenever they're exploding their cannons into the ocean. I said, 'Boy look at that view. Wouldn't that make a great condo?'," he told reporters after meeting Mr Kim.
(Formerly) managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com