Poll

Should trans boy athletes be allowed to compete with girls in high school sports

Yes
4 (9.5%)
No
38 (90.5%)

Total Members Voted: 42

Author Topic: Should trans boy athletes be allowed to compete with girls in high school sports  (Read 2195 times)

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Offline rondofan1255

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I'm mildly disappointed how this became a thread about transgenderism in society instead of sports but it is what it is. I feel like that's a different topic/thread. Possibly a very interesting one.

It seems to me like on some level the parents aren't really exactly trying to stop transgenderism in sports but rather gender fluidity where the kid is a boy in winter, and then a girl in spring, and then a boy again.  Considering how overwhelming the results of this poll are (way more than I expected) I suppose that poll would be even more overwhelming.

a poll about transgenders in society would not be as lopsided as this one IMO
might be up to 40% in favor

Offline eja117

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I'm mildly disappointed how this became a thread about transgenderism in society instead of sports but it is what it is. I feel like that's a different topic/thread. Possibly a very interesting one.

It seems to me like on some level the parents aren't really exactly trying to stop transgenderism in sports but rather gender fluidity where the kid is a boy in winter, and then a girl in spring, and then a boy again.  Considering how overwhelming the results of this poll are (way more than I expected) I suppose that poll would be even more overwhelming.

a poll about transgenders in society would not be as lopsided as this one IMO
might be up to 40% in favor
What would that poll be like?  Should trans people be allowed to....exist?  Actually....I'd like it if someone opened a thread on the wider issue because....I just feel like that makes more sense. Keep the discussion a little cleaner and streamlined.

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I say let them they are just kids.

I think it would be fine until say eighth grade.  Then no more, trouble is people will not settle for that.   They will sue to play in High School and

Though, I,  personally would not let a kid made a decision to transition, period.   That is a life changing event and should be made by an adult.  We make people wait to drink, buy a guy and drive a car until they are mature enough.

Quote
Should trans people be allowed to....exist?

The libertarian in me, say "yes".   Should the rest of us have to coddle to them, "no", that includes taxed funded surgeries.   The bathroom stuff is very tricky.  I can see both sides of it, and really have not made a decision.

Quote
No. Chromosomes, in the absence of hormone defects (either production of hormones or hormone receptors), chromosomal abnormalities, accidents in uterine decelopment, etc, determine was is seen in terms of newborn genitalia. And again, barring other complex developmental or hormonal issues, also determines the secondary changes (deepening voice, facial hair, breast tissue, menstruation, etc) will happen with puberty.

On some level still this is genetic make up of the individual.

Quote
Gender is more variable and has more degrees; you can be drawn toward non-typical gendered work or dress for your society, or, in the case of transgender, your brain could be set in telling you that you are the gender that is opposite of your biologic sex. If you have this feeling and it exists consistently through the beginning of puberty, it essentially does not change (less than 2% of such people “regret” transitioning.

I agree it is complex.   Again the brain, it is a mental illness?   I don't think we know enough information at this point.   As much as science has shed light on it does not have all the answers.  I think folks should have a right to live a life they choose with some caveats.

I think as long as they are not hurting others, I don't have a problem with people transitioning.   But in sports it could be a definite unfair advantage.  There are reasons that the military has different standards of physical fitness for each sex.   That being said there are a female soldiers that could smoke an average male soldier because they are fit.   But they are not the norm.  I went to an all male basic training and back in the day that was a lot harder (not that is was hard anyways) than mixed sex training.

Offline eja117

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Woah woah. Time out. I am nooottt positing the question "should trans people be allowed to exist." I was merely wondering out loud what some sort of societal poll would look like and was having a hard time envisioning that.

Offline eja117

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On the radio they said the UConn women's team wouldn't beat a high school team. And that made me wonder.

Would the UConn women's basketball team beat Oak Hill Academy?

Would a WBNA team beat Oak Hill Academy?

Would the women's Olympic team beat Oak Hill?

Offline gift

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I also wonder if we are doing a disservice to transgender individuals by allowing gender to substitute for prerequisites that are based on differences between sexes. This allowance lessens the apparent distinction between sex and gender that is the basis for modern gender theory.

We're allowing two components of gender, identity and expression, to equal the value of a given sex. However, modern gender theory includes sex as its own component of gender. Therefore, gender alone cannot inherently make sex equivalent to some combination of sex, gender identity, and gender expression (unless the value of identity and expression is a combined zero).

Here are a few of options:

1. Get rid of men's and women's divisions in favor of some other criteria.
2. Include more divisions with qualifications that do not solely depend on sex.
3. Require all competition divisions to be sex-based, regardless of gender.

Some may argue that men's and women's divisions were gender divisions all along. However, I would point to the very existence of separate women's divisions, given current and historical performance and expectation for each respectively, as evidence that the divisions were sex-based, not gender-based.

I do not favor getting rid of sex-based divisions, because that provides unequal opportunity for women. I do not favor requiring all competition to be solely sex-based, because transgender athletes undergoing therapy may be at either a prohibitive disadvantage or an unnatural advantage, depending on the circumstance. Rather, I would favor the addition of divisions that are not solely sex-based, rather based upon other things, such as gender.

Offline rondofan1255

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I'm mildly disappointed how this became a thread about transgenderism in society instead of sports but it is what it is. I feel like that's a different topic/thread. Possibly a very interesting one.

It seems to me like on some level the parents aren't really exactly trying to stop transgenderism in sports but rather gender fluidity where the kid is a boy in winter, and then a girl in spring, and then a boy again.  Considering how overwhelming the results of this poll are (way more than I expected) I suppose that poll would be even more overwhelming.

a poll about transgenders in society would not be as lopsided as this one IMO
might be up to 40% in favor
What would that poll be like?  Should trans people be allowed to....exist?  Actually....I'd like it if someone opened a thread on the wider issue because....I just feel like that makes more sense. Keep the discussion a little cleaner and streamlined.

 Poll about if they should be allowed to transition


Offline mqtcelticsfan

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For questions such as this, I try to look at it from the perspective of who benefits or loses most from allowing it. Based on that, this is a no brainer to me. If we enact restrictive policies on transgendered kids, it can leave a young person that is already vulnerable because of our society’s attitude toward them, and isolates them further. If we allow it, some kids might take second instead of first in an athletic competition. I don’t think sports should be some special part of our society that we choose to exclude people from, given that it wouldn’t really be acceptable in any other area.

Offline Casperian

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Maybe a good compromise would be for instead of two divisions....boys and girls....have four.......boys, trans boys, girls, and trans girls.

The better compromise, in my opinion, is to do away with all the divisions altogether and just let boys, girls, trans boys and trans girls all compete against each other.

 In every sport, including basketball and football.
In the 2017 off-season, I predicted the Celtics will not win the title for the next 10 years.

1 down, 9 to go.

Offline gouki88

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Maybe a good compromise would be for instead of two divisions....boys and girls....have four.......boys, trans boys, girls, and trans girls.

The better compromise, in my opinion, is to do away with all the divisions altogether and just let boys, girls, trans boys and trans girls all compete against each other.

 In every sport, including basketball and football.
Hahahaha

Offline Casperian

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Maybe a good compromise would be for instead of two divisions....boys and girls....have four.......boys, trans boys, girls, and trans girls.

The better compromise, in my opinion, is to do away with all the divisions altogether and just let boys, girls, trans boys and trans girls all compete against each other.

 In every sport, including basketball and football.
Hahahaha

Yeah, well, I can see how that sounds ridiculous on the surface, the comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but I do mean it when I say that, before creating a myriad of divisions, it'd be better to just do away with them altogether.

With no divisions, nobody can complain about exclusivity and unfair treatment. If a woman is good enough to compete with the men, I say let her.
In the 2017 off-season, I predicted the Celtics will not win the title for the next 10 years.

1 down, 9 to go.

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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Why can't people just compete in the gender they happen to be in at the point in time?
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Offline makaveli

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Lol

Ofcourse not. They may have gotteb rid of some parts of thier body, but the rest is the same
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Offline eja117

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Why can't people just compete in the gender they happen to be in at the point in time?
I don't really believe in gender.

Offline eja117

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For questions such as this, I try to look at it from the perspective of who benefits or loses most from allowing it. Based on that, this is a no brainer to me. If we enact restrictive policies on transgendered kids, it can leave a young person that is already vulnerable because of our society’s attitude toward them, and isolates them further. If we allow it, some kids might take second instead of first in an athletic competition. I don’t think sports should be some special part of our society that we choose to exclude people from, given that it wouldn’t really be acceptable in any other area.
Is it a restrictive policy to tell a person they can't do exactly what they want to do at that exact moment in time? Completely expansive policies aren't always the best either