Author Topic: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)  (Read 2409 times)

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Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2018, 11:04:15 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I'm not surprised to read an article like this in the WaPo, though, which is, quite transparently, one of the biggest pot stirrers out there, in either direction.
I understand people trying to stir the pot.

What I don't understand is people who fail to comprehend that extreme pot-stirring will (a) just get them to be actively ignored, (b) probably harm their cause, and (c) most certainly not move it an iota forward.
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Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2018, 12:14:00 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I also find it interesting how the conversations pivot. For the last few years you’re called sexist for noticing that feminism is turning into an outright hatred of men. Then Suddenly in the paper of record, feminism is coming out and saying exactly that.

This isn't "feminism" any more than the tiki-torch carrying guys at Charlottesville are "conservatism."

I also don't believe this woman a liberal; she's left. Those of us old enough to remember the 1960s and 1970s know the difference.

This is the entire thread. It isn’t an ‘article’ in the ‘paper of record’. It’s an op ed piece from someone with a fringe opinion that’s being used as a broad brush to draw far reaching and in accurate premises.

There was a member of the state legislature in NY who proposed banning archery and marksmen clubs in high schools. More than a few conservatives I know used this as a platform for ‘look how unreasonable my opponents are!’ However, not a single other sponsor came forward when the bill was proposed. Nobody left
Or right wants it besides this lady, but because it furthers a disingenuous narrative of broader leftist extremism it got way more attention than it deserved.

This thread is about an opinion piece. Not a manifesto widely embraced.

See, I'd like to think this is accurate, but I don't think it is.

About 22 years ago, I was first exposed to the term "white privilege" and the idea of cultural appropriation.  I laughed it off, and thought it was just something dreamed up by the lunatic fringe.  Back then, even at a fairly liberal college, there were maybe a dozen or so students that truly embraced this, papering the campus with signs advertising meetings that nobody went to.

Flash forward to 2018, and those are mainstream "progressive" ideas.  Who's to say that in 30 years a whole segment of the population will be advocating reparations for women, and the idea that hatred of (white) males is acceptable?  We already see the beginnings of that.  You don't think that as time goes by, and more and more leftist ideas become mainstream, that endorsing hatred against the "patriarchy" will become more, rather than less, accepted?


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Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2018, 01:17:52 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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IP, you are drastically underestimating the level of misandry that has developed within the intersectional, 3rd wave feminist crowd. This is not some rogue feminist

I'm not drastically underestimating that some women hate men. I'm saying they don't represent any kind of significant platform within the democratic party, among liberals, or with the nation. They're convenient boogie-men. Or Boogie-person. One shouldn't assume.

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Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2018, 01:19:01 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I'm not surprised to read an article like this in the WaPo, though, which is, quite transparently, one of the biggest pot stirrers out there, in either direction.
I understand people trying to stir the pot.

What I don't understand is people who fail to comprehend that extreme pot-stirring will (a) just get them to be actively ignored, (b) probably harm their cause, and (c) most certainly not move it an iota forward.

People who believe in extremes probably don't strategize with moderation.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2018, 02:11:34 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I'm not surprised to read an article like this in the WaPo, though, which is, quite transparently, one of the biggest pot stirrers out there, in either direction.
I understand people trying to stir the pot.

What I don't understand is people who fail to comprehend that extreme pot-stirring will (a) just get them to be actively ignored, (b) probably harm their cause, and (c) most certainly not move it an iota forward.

People who believe in extremes probably don't strategize with moderation.
I'm skeptical most nutjobs really buy in to the stuff they say. They make a living off people seeing their articles, getting really mad and posting it on Facebook or Cs blog so everyone else can see why they are so mad. Then we all read it and get mad.

Steven A Smith has made a career out of a similar rabble rousing.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2018, 02:29:56 PM »

Offline gift

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I'm not surprised to read an article like this in the WaPo, though, which is, quite transparently, one of the biggest pot stirrers out there, in either direction.
I understand people trying to stir the pot.

What I don't understand is people who fail to comprehend that extreme pot-stirring will (a) just get them to be actively ignored, (b) probably harm their cause, and (c) most certainly not move it an iota forward.

People who believe in extremes probably don't strategize with moderation.
I'm skeptical most nutjobs really buy in to the stuff they say. They make a living off people seeing their articles, getting really mad and posting it on Facebook or Cs blog so everyone else can see why they are so mad. Then we all read it and get mad.

Steven A Smith has made a career out of a similar rabble rousing.

Yet they extend the boundaries of the narrative, so that the next wave of nutjobs need to speak from even further extremes in order to garner attention.

Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2018, 04:59:53 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
About 22 years ago, I was first exposed to the term "white privilege" and the idea of cultural appropriation.  I laughed it off, and thought it was just something dreamed up by the lunatic fringe.  Back then, even at a fairly liberal college, there were maybe a dozen or so students that truly embraced this, papering the campus with signs advertising meetings that nobody went to.

If you're a white male, these folks have it out for you, no doubt.  We are the devil!

Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2018, 05:14:03 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Quote
Suzanna Danuta Walters, a professor of sociology and director of the Women’s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies Program at Northeastern University, is the editor of the gender studies journal Signs.

*facepalm*

Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2018, 02:38:07 AM »

Offline JSD

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IP,

I actually never brought up party, but since you mention it, I would argue that intersectional feminist, SJW types, who feel this way, have far more influence on the Democrats than, say, the Alt-Right has on the Republican Party. Identity politics are currently dominating the humanities departments across college campuses. Have you read about Evergreen, Berkeley, UNH, Umass, and the shutting down of conservative speakers? Are you saying that this group, who essentially call everyone “Nazi”, is not as extreme as the writer of this piece? I think they are, and I think their message is being heard, and in many cases, embraced by the mainstream Left.

One of the pressing issues we are currently facing is “How do we know when the Left has gone too far?”. Like, we know when it happens on Right, claims of racial superiority pretty much does the trick. Those type of people are not allowed in the conversation. Luckily for us, they would never be given the soap box on a major news publication. Can we agree on that? If this author’s ideas are equivalent to the Right’s Charlottesville, for example, then how is it they end up on the Washington Post? It’s because these ideas are far more acceptable in mainstream discourse, and they should not be.

So when does the left go too far? Someone earlier mentioned “Equality” as a noble goal, but what does that mean to people? Is it, “Equality of opportunity” or “Equality of outcome” that we should be striving for? And is it possible, that the latter option should be where we draw the line as to when and where the Left has gone too far?

Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2018, 02:52:18 AM »

Offline JSD

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Quote
Suzanna Danuta Walters, a professor of sociology and director of the Women’s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies Program at Northeastern University, is the editor of the gender studies journal Signs.

*facepalm*

case in point. Wow

Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2018, 06:12:37 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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IP,

I actually never brought up party, but since you mention it, I would argue that intersectional feminist, SJW types, who feel this way, have far more influence on the Democrats than, say, the Alt-Right has on the Republican Party. Identity politics are currently dominating the humanities departments across college campuses. Have you read about Evergreen, Berkeley, UNH, Umass, and the shutting down of conservative speakers? Are you saying that this group, who essentially call everyone “Nazi”, is not as extreme as the writer of this piece? I think they are, and I think their message is being heard, and in many cases, embraced by the mainstream Left.

One of the pressing issues we are currently facing is “How do we know when the Left has gone too far?”. Like, we know when it happens on Right, claims of racial superiority pretty much does the trick. Those type of people are not allowed in the conversation. Luckily for us, they would never be given the soap box on a major news publication. Can we agree on that? If this author’s ideas are equivalent to the Right’s Charlottesville, for example, then how is it they end up on the Washington Post? It’s because these ideas are far more acceptable in mainstream discourse, and they should not be.

So when does the left go too far? Someone earlier mentioned “Equality” as a noble goal, but what does that mean to people? Is it, “Equality of opportunity” or “Equality of outcome” that we should be striving for? And is it possible, that the latter option should be where we draw the line as to when and where the Left has gone too far?
Let's not forget we still live in a world where the sitting President appointed Steve Bannon as one of his top advisers, and was enthusiastically endorsed by David Duke.
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Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2018, 06:37:47 AM »

Offline JSD

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IP,

I actually never brought up party, but since you mention it, I would argue that intersectional feminist, SJW types, who feel this way, have far more influence on the Democrats than, say, the Alt-Right has on the Republican Party. Identity politics are currently dominating the humanities departments across college campuses. Have you read about Evergreen, Berkeley, UNH, Umass, and the shutting down of conservative speakers? Are you saying that this group, who essentially call everyone “Nazi”, is not as extreme as the writer of this piece? I think they are, and I think their message is being heard, and in many cases, embraced by the mainstream Left.

One of the pressing issues we are currently facing is “How do we know when the Left has gone too far?”. Like, we know when it happens on Right, claims of racial superiority pretty much does the trick. Those type of people are not allowed in the conversation. Luckily for us, they would never be given the soap box on a major news publication. Can we agree on that? If this author’s ideas are equivalent to the Right’s Charlottesville, for example, then how is it they end up on the Washington Post? It’s because these ideas are far more acceptable in mainstream discourse, and they should not be.

So when does the left go too far? Someone earlier mentioned “Equality” as a noble goal, but what does that mean to people? Is it, “Equality of opportunity” or “Equality of outcome” that we should be striving for? And is it possible, that the latter option should be where we draw the line as to when and where the Left has gone too far?
Let's not forget we still live in a world where the sitting President appointed Steve Bannon as one of his top advisers, and was enthusiastically endorsed by David Duke.

Reprehensible people endorse candidates all the time. The communist party, for example, endorsed Hillary Clinton. As for Bannon, there a distinction between economic nationalism and white nationalism. His wife made the claim during a divorce proceeding, but other than that, there’s no evidence that he is an anti-Semite. In fact, virtually all of his Jewish colleagues at Breitbart came out and said he was not, including former employee Ben Shapiro who is on record as strongly disliking the man.

When has the left gone too far?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 06:42:56 AM by JSD »

Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2018, 06:37:56 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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So when does the left go too far? Someone earlier mentioned “Equality” as a noble goal, but what does that mean to people? Is it, “Equality of opportunity” or “Equality of outcome” that we should be striving for? And is it possible, that the latter option should be where we draw the line as to when and where the Left has gone too far?

I think most of us support equality.   But this stuff goes way beyond equality.  Extremes of either side are not good for the country.

Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2018, 06:42:09 AM »

Offline JSD

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Quote
So when does the left go too far? Someone earlier mentioned “Equality” as a noble goal, but what does that mean to people? Is it, “Equality of opportunity” or “Equality of outcome” that we should be striving for? And is it possible, that the latter option should be where we draw the line as to when and where the Left has gone too far?

I think most of us support equality.   But this stuff goes way beyond equality.  Extremes of either side are not good for the country.

What does equality mean to you?

Re: Why can’t we hate men? (Washington Post Article)
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2018, 06:52:27 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Quote
So when does the left go too far? Someone earlier mentioned “Equality” as a noble goal, but what does that mean to people? Is it, “Equality of opportunity” or “Equality of outcome” that we should be striving for? And is it possible, that the latter option should be where we draw the line as to when and where the Left has gone too far?

I think most of us support equality.   But this stuff goes way beyond equality.  Extremes of either side are not good for the country.

What does equality mean to you?
If it isn't equality of opportunity then it's destined for failure