Author Topic: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical  (Read 794 times)

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Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« on: June 09, 2018, 06:13:44 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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When has LeBron ever played with elite prospects?  I'm not talking about Tristan Thompson or Delonte West.  I'm talking about legitimate star prospects.  I guess Kyrie, right?  Under LeBron's mentorship, Kyrie blossomed into a champion and leader (side note: The Kyrie/LeBron beef isn't real.  I disagree with everyone who says Kyrie wouldn't play with him again.  Kyrie wanted out because of the Cavs, not because of LeBron)...

I know the LeBron thing is still farfetched, but I just want to point out that having LeBron on the Celtics for the final 3 or so years of his prime would probably be a great thing for the development of Tatum and Brown.  Who better to mentor those two than arguably the most gifted player to ever play the game?  Say what you want about LeBron, but the guy is a basketball genius and his training regime is next-level obsessive.  Watching Brown and Tatum surpass all expectations this season and get thrown into the fire was a joy to watch, but both have a ton of additional development they could do.  Learning from LeBron could push their trajectory into an entirely different realm.  Bron's at the point in his career where he's going to be ready to pass on wisdom.  And if you saw how much respect he displayed for both of those kids during the Finals, you can imagine him willing to embrace both of them. 

That's part of why I fear him going to the Sixers, honestly.  I don't want Ben Simmons, Fultz, etc spending the next few years learning from a basketball god.  I'd much rather our guys get that education. 

And given that our kids played LeBron tough to 7 games, he knows he can already count on them and respect their existing skills.  You figure Bron should actually have more respect for 22 year old Brown/21 year old Tatum than he had for 22 year old Kyrie when he joined the Cavs in 2014 - given that Kyrie had previously lead a 21-33 win Cavs team and had not yet proven capable of winning.   Brown and Tatum just proved they can win.  Frankly, Bron should respect Tatum and Brown more than he respected Kevin Love in 2014 (who had never participated in the playoffs). But even with the mutual respect, there's obviously so much more Brown and Tatum could learn.  I'd be excited to have them learn from the King.  Eventually LeBron is going to jump ship to go play with whatever team that drafts LeBron Jr and retire.  At that point (about 5 years from now), our guys will be nearing their prime. 

This is how you build a real dynasty.  Consider someone like John Havlicek who spent the early part of his career on the 60s Celtics taking a back seat to Russell, Cousy, Jones and Heinsohn... but by the 1970s he was able to carry the torch and win a couple titles as the star.  Tatum and Brown are still babies.  Spending the next few years winning titles with LeBron and then carrying the torch in their mid 20s wouldn't be a bad thing.

Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2018, 10:00:28 AM »

Offline timpiker

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The more I think about this the more I just cannot see Danny selling his soul to the devil.

Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2018, 10:03:50 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I would rather not have Tatum and Brown learning from LeBron and picking up all his narcissistic, egotistical habits.

I'd much rather they learn from a guy like Horford, who is all about the the team.

Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2018, 10:15:22 AM »

Offline Fred Roberts

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I think we really laid down in game 7 and let James win. Young nerves.
I want to beat him. Not have him pad his resume off what Brad and Danny are building. Winning with lebron might take some of the thrill away from what is brewing in Celtlandia.
Much respect to James but it makes me feel icky picturing him in green.

Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2018, 10:47:54 AM »

Offline incoherent

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Best case scenario is Lebron goes to Philly and the Young Celtics take him out.  It would add more to J(T+B)'s legacy more than anything.

Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2018, 10:53:57 AM »

Offline Androslav

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Kyrie?
1st pick, all star in his 2nd season.
That qualifies as elite prospect.
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Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2018, 11:08:19 AM »

Offline JBcat

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Another 3 years of his prime at age 33?  Iím not sure if I buy that but he did just have a great season.

Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2018, 11:36:55 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Lol I read the thread title and thought, "this is definitely from LarBrd33"  :laugh:

Anyways, unless Simmons finds a jump shot next year or the year after... he literally becomes useless on that team. No way Lebron plays off-ball for large stretches and unlike Wade and Irving, Simmons can't shoot off ball UNLESS he's like within 12 feet of the basket (and CBS exploited that in the playoffs and teams certainly will next season).

And look, I don't deny Lebron's greatness and if he came here at the "right price" (w/e that is), I'd be excited, but at the same time the idea that he greatly elevates his teammates and mentors others constantly is not something I agree with.

We just saw Clarkson, Nance, Hill, Hood (for most of playoffs) and others look great with other teams but look horrible with the Cavaliers. Certainly Lebron elevates a team to greater heights but does he really make other players that much better? Something to debate.

Also maybe this is purely just frustration but it never seemed like Lebron engaged with his teammates on the bench besides probably pouting at them  :P (though after that JR blunder in Game 1 I don't blame him for that time lol)

In a right system though with better coaching, I think that would change though.

Then again the Spurs and C's have systems that preach teamwork, ball movement and great effort on defense... which is one I don't know if Lebron can adapt into. He will fit a roster beautifully no doubt, but a system? Another thing to debate.
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Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2018, 11:57:02 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Another 3 years of his prime at age 33?  Iím not sure if I buy that but he did just have a great season.
If he came to us or the Sixers where he doesn't have to carry the team just to make the playoffs, I could definitely see 3 years and possibly more.   

Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2018, 12:26:14 PM »

Offline playdream

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Fultz still can't shoot, Embiid may go down anytime. and they are way to inexperience, Lebron will need to baby sit them all season, let alone it's a bad fit

Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2018, 12:32:32 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I'd honestly have no problem with LeBron going to Philly.

I think while they'd obviously be really good, Boston will still be better. And LeBron seems to always bring a drama filled circus with him everywhere be goes, and leaves behind a mess in the aftermath.

I think it be hilarious to see Embiid and LeBron fight for control of the team while Simmons turns into Kevin Love 2.0. Fultz can just fade into Bolivia.

Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2018, 12:52:19 PM »

Offline Rakulp

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When has LeBron ever played with elite prospects?  I'm not talking about Tristan Thompson or Delonte West.  I'm talking about legitimate star prospects.  I guess Kyrie, right?  Under LeBron's mentorship, Kyrie blossomed into a champion and leader (side note: The Kyrie/LeBron beef isn't real.  I disagree with everyone who says Kyrie wouldn't play with him again.  Kyrie wanted out because of the Cavs, not because of LeBron)...

I know the LeBron thing is still farfetched, but I just want to point out that having LeBron on the Celtics for the final 3 or so years of his prime would probably be a great thing for the development of Tatum and Brown.  Who better to mentor those two than arguably the most gifted player to ever play the game?  Say what you want about LeBron, but the guy is a basketball genius and his training regime is next-level obsessive.  Watching Brown and Tatum surpass all expectations this season and get thrown into the fire was a joy to watch, but both have a ton of additional development they could do.  Learning from LeBron could push their trajectory into an entirely different realm.  Bron's at the point in his career where he's going to be ready to pass on wisdom.  And if you saw how much respect he displayed for both of those kids during the Finals, you can imagine him willing to embrace both of them. 

That's part of why I fear him going to the Sixers, honestly.  I don't want Ben Simmons, Fultz, etc spending the next few years learning from a basketball god.  I'd much rather our guys get that education. 

And given that our kids played LeBron tough to 7 games, he knows he can already count on them and respect their existing skills.  You figure Bron should actually have more respect for 22 year old Brown/21 year old Tatum than he had for 22 year old Kyrie when he joined the Cavs in 2014 - given that Kyrie had previously lead a 21-33 win Cavs team and had not yet proven capable of winning.   Brown and Tatum just proved they can win.  Frankly, Bron should respect Tatum and Brown more than he respected Kevin Love in 2014 (who had never participated in the playoffs). But even with the mutual respect, there's obviously so much more Brown and Tatum could learn.  I'd be excited to have them learn from the King.  Eventually LeBron is going to jump ship to go play with whatever team that drafts LeBron Jr and retire.  At that point (about 5 years from now), our guys will be nearing their prime. 

This is how you build a real dynasty.  Consider someone like John Havlicek who spent the early part of his career on the 60s Celtics taking a back seat to Russell, Cousy, Jones and Heinsohn... but by the 1970s he was able to carry the torch and win a couple titles as the star.  Tatum and Brown are still babies.  Spending the next few years winning titles with LeBron and then carrying the torch in their mid 20s wouldn't be a bad thing.

It all depends on which Lebron wears the green.

If it's the Lebron who has to be the center of attention, call all the shots, make all the decisions...then pass.

However, if it's a new "enlightened" Lebron...who wants to share his wisdom with the next generation, side by side...who can reel in his pride and ego and recognize it won't be HIS team, but willingly embraces that they are his TEAM...then that is a different story.  That Lebron won't worry about cash, will work his salary in a way that keeps the pieces together...that talks with Kyrie and makes sure all is good there first...and tells Coach "you call the plays, I'll do what you say".

Does that latter Lebron exist?  Much like Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster, it's only a rumor until it shows up on TMZ! :)

Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2018, 01:20:15 PM »

Offline footey

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When has LeBron ever played with elite prospects?  I'm not talking about Tristan Thompson or Delonte West.  I'm talking about legitimate star prospects.  I guess Kyrie, right?  Under LeBron's mentorship, Kyrie blossomed into a champion and leader (side note: The Kyrie/LeBron beef isn't real.  I disagree with everyone who says Kyrie wouldn't play with him again.  Kyrie wanted out because of the Cavs, not because of LeBron)...

I know the LeBron thing is still farfetched, but I just want to point out that having LeBron on the Celtics for the final 3 or so years of his prime would probably be a great thing for the development of Tatum and Brown.  Who better to mentor those two than arguably the most gifted player to ever play the game?  Say what you want about LeBron, but the guy is a basketball genius and his training regime is next-level obsessive.  Watching Brown and Tatum surpass all expectations this season and get thrown into the fire was a joy to watch, but both have a ton of additional development they could do.  Learning from LeBron could push their trajectory into an entirely different realm.  Bron's at the point in his career where he's going to be ready to pass on wisdom.  And if you saw how much respect he displayed for both of those kids during the Finals, you can imagine him willing to embrace both of them. 

That's part of why I fear him going to the Sixers, honestly.  I don't want Ben Simmons, Fultz, etc spending the next few years learning from a basketball god.  I'd much rather our guys get that education. 

And given that our kids played LeBron tough to 7 games, he knows he can already count on them and respect their existing skills.  You figure Bron should actually have more respect for 22 year old Brown/21 year old Tatum than he had for 22 year old Kyrie when he joined the Cavs in 2014 - given that Kyrie had previously lead a 21-33 win Cavs team and had not yet proven capable of winning.   Brown and Tatum just proved they can win.  Frankly, Bron should respect Tatum and Brown more than he respected Kevin Love in 2014 (who had never participated in the playoffs). But even with the mutual respect, there's obviously so much more Brown and Tatum could learn.  I'd be excited to have them learn from the King.  Eventually LeBron is going to jump ship to go play with whatever team that drafts LeBron Jr and retire.  At that point (about 5 years from now), our guys will be nearing their prime. 

This is how you build a real dynasty.  Consider someone like John Havlicek who spent the early part of his career on the 60s Celtics taking a back seat to Russell, Cousy, Jones and Heinsohn... but by the 1970s he was able to carry the torch and win a couple titles as the star.  Tatum and Brown are still babies.  Spending the next few years winning titles with LeBron and then carrying the torch in their mid 20s wouldn't be a bad thing.

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Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2018, 01:24:22 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I think the underrated or under discussed aspect of LeBron to Boston is the forgotten narrative that no FA wants to come to Boston.  I personally never bought it but it seemed to have made it to the status of conventional wisdom.

As far as the theory in the OP, I don't think having LeBron will help develop our young players.  The example of Kyrie needs to consider that Kyrie did most of his developing before LeBron came back to CLE, not after (although I don't think LeBron stopped Kyrie from developing).  It is just kind of inconclusive evidence.  You can see it any way you want.

The problem with LeBron is that he hasn't signed a long term contract in a while and I doubt he would he would for us.  I predict LAL with Cousins and Paul George.

Re: Underrated aspect of the LeBron hypothetical
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2018, 02:29:16 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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The more I thought about it, the less I have warmed up to the thought of bringing LeBron here.

I don't want to give up Hayward, I also don't want to give up Kyrie or Horford. It's not just a matter of a simple trade with either players. With Kyrie we have to add a little extra due to cap space configurations, and maybe throw in a pick, considering he would be a one year rental. Hayward is Hayward, and watching some of his previous videos and how torn and heartbroken he was that he couldn't be with us. That really makes me feel for him, and realize how inhumane it would be, if the trade went into fruition. I couldn't imagine trading Hayward right after a year he missed signing with us. It just makes me feel dirty, and I don't think Ainge's track record would allow him to do so. In the past he's traded Pierce, Isaiah, Perkins, and Garnett, Rondo, etc; to greener pastures in hope for a title or championship.

I don't even think Ainge could allow himself to watch Hayward get sent over to the wasteland that is Cleveland, that LeBron basically created as player GM, and then is going to pretty much leave behind.

I also think going forward, Hayward will still be a very productive player. And if ANYTHING Gordon Hayward would better off teaching Tatum and Brown, because his game is predicated on hesitation moves, dribble hand offs, and playing WITHIN a motion system; something that Quinn Synder preached and lived by from back then to then on now.

Horford? I can't imagine losing him either. He, alongside Marcus Smart, is the backbone and engine to our offense. Sure, we're immensely better with LeBron, but I FEAR he'll take away touches, make the offense stagnant, and his defense has become literally non-existent. You can argue that LeBron won't have to handle the offense as much. But this is LeBron... He is going to do whatever he wants. And I cannot picture the longevity and sheer amount of miles on LeBron's legs. I fear he is definitely on the path to a major injury. I'm not giving up Horford. I want him to be our leader, mentor, and defensive anchor for years to come. He has dedicated and shaped his game, and I'm not concerned about his age as a long-term issue. His game is going to age really well.

I'm not knocking LeBron. He's the greatest player of my generation. I grew up watching Pierce, and Kobe, but LeBron surpasses them all, with the exception of Tim Duncan, (who I still think is a little bit better than LeBron for now,) and he's undoubtedly the greatest, but I believe he benefited greatly from not only being a physical specimen, but being catered to his every will. He has never ever been told, 'no.' He grew up with the aspect and mindset to be great, but somewhere along the line his confidence and ego became beyond the borderline of egomaniac. I'm not saying he's a terrible person. Far from it, he's one of the greatest role models also for little kids, and athletes all around. But there's just something about LeBron that makes me dislike him.

I really want to beat him. We were super close to doing so, and even LeBron looked human at times against us. We are so close... Absolutely on the freakin' edge..

With a floundering of assets, draft picks, young talent, and a team that is cohesively sound, and we BELIEVE in each other. When you see our teammates celebrate after a hard fought win, you see how much we believe and trust in each other.

When you bring in LeBron, you bring in the potentiality of ruining everything that we have worked SO HARD to strive for.

No thank you.
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