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Would you do this trade?

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11 (73.3%)
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My three team AD trade.
« on: June 09, 2018, 10:42:02 AM »

Online Csfan1984

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Give it a few minutes and this deal makes sense in a few ways. So there may be Irving questions, Porzingis questions  and Pelicans FA/futre options may be bleak. Slap it all together and maybe all three franchises make out in this one.

C' trade Irving, Horford, Rozier and Kings pick
C's get AD and Jrue Holiday.
-C's lose a lot but get a top 5 player and lock up the starting lineup (Holiday, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, AD) for a few years.

Knicks trade Porzingis, Lee and a top 8 protected 1st.
Knicks get Irving.
-Knicks upgrade the star/face of the franchise.
 
Pelicans trade AD and Holiday
Pelicans get Porzingis, Horford, Rozier, Lee, and the two first.
-Pelicans get two star bigs for a superstar big along with a two good role players and two good draft picks. They won't have to worry about signing Rondo or Cousins. They would be a good team to watch still with the players they receive and with Porzingis plus those picks the furture is bright with no need to tank.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7l7j5ss
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2018, 11:39:09 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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I don't believe that NOP are going to trade Davis even if they get Porzingis, Horford, and the rest of the haul you describe.

My take away from your proposed deal is if we are resigned to the fact that we need to trade Kyrie, and we can get Porzingis and a lottery pick for him, just stop right there.  I don't want to trade Kyrie but if we doubt his health or our ability to resign him, then getting Porzingis and a good pick is a pretty good return.  But instead of Courtney Lee, I want either Ntilikina or Mudiay (Knicks choice) and say Lance Thomas as the slightly upgraded filler.  We have no need for Courtney Lee.  Rather have a point guard project (Knicks will no longer need both if they have Kyrie) and a depth big.

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2018, 11:47:35 AM »

Online Csfan1984

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I don't believe that NOP are going to trade Davis even if they get Porzingis, Horford, and the rest of the haul you describe.

My take away from your proposed deal is if we are resigned to the fact that we need to trade Kyrie, and we can get Porzingis and a lottery pick for him, just stop right there.  I don't want to trade Kyrie but if we doubt his health or our ability to resign him, then getting Porzingis and a good pick is a pretty good return.  But instead of Courtney Lee, I want either Ntilikina or Mudiay (Knicks choice) and say Lance Thomas as the slightly upgraded filler.  We have no need for Courtney Lee.  Rather have a point guard project (Knicks will no longer need both if they have Kyrie) and a depth big.
So Porzingis, a pick and fillers would satisfy you for moving Irving if Irving preferred NY to Bos?

I only see moving Irving if we can secure a top 15 player to replace him. Which I thought throw everything at Davis (minus Hayward, Tatum, and Brown).

Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2018, 12:03:45 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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I don't believe that NOP are going to trade Davis even if they get Porzingis, Horford, and the rest of the haul you describe.

My take away from your proposed deal is if we are resigned to the fact that we need to trade Kyrie, and we can get Porzingis and a lottery pick for him, just stop right there.  I don't want to trade Kyrie but if we doubt his health or our ability to resign him, then getting Porzingis and a good pick is a pretty good return.  But instead of Courtney Lee, I want either Ntilikina or Mudiay (Knicks choice) and say Lance Thomas as the slightly upgraded filler.  We have no need for Courtney Lee.  Rather have a point guard project (Knicks will no longer need both if they have Kyrie) and a depth big.
So Porzingis, a pick and fillers would satisfy you for moving Irving if Irving preferred NY to Bos?

I only see moving Irving if we can secure a top 15 player to replace him. Which I thought throw everything at Davis (minus Hayward, Tatum, and Brown).

I would trade Kyrie for Davis but I don't think it is realistic that NOP would trade Davis and I don't like your overall deal.  Reread the bolded part above.  Yes, I think Porzingis, Ntilikina, and say their #8 pick this year would be pretty good return for a player who we would only be trading if we doubted his health or were expecting him to sign elsewhere anyway.  Porzingis is a FA also but I think Restricted.  He is the linchpin of the deal.  He would be great starting alongside Horford (as would Davis but in your deal, we give up Horford who NOP wouldn't want anyway).

I applaud your creative and thoughtful trade.  I just like the first part but only under certain conditions as I explained.

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2018, 12:29:10 PM »

Online Csfan1984

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I don't believe that NOP are going to trade Davis even if they get Porzingis, Horford, and the rest of the haul you describe.

My take away from your proposed deal is if we are resigned to the fact that we need to trade Kyrie, and we can get Porzingis and a lottery pick for him, just stop right there.  I don't want to trade Kyrie but if we doubt his health or our ability to resign him, then getting Porzingis and a good pick is a pretty good return.  But instead of Courtney Lee, I want either Ntilikina or Mudiay (Knicks choice) and say Lance Thomas as the slightly upgraded filler.  We have no need for Courtney Lee.  Rather have a point guard project (Knicks will no longer need both if they have Kyrie) and a depth big.
So Porzingis, a pick and fillers would satisfy you for moving Irving if Irving preferred NY to Bos?

I only see moving Irving if we can secure a top 15 player to replace him. Which I thought throw everything at Davis (minus Hayward, Tatum, and Brown).

I would trade Kyrie for Davis but I don't think it is realistic that NOP would trade Davis and I don't like your overall deal.  Reread the bolded part above.  Yes, I think Porzingis, Ntilikina, and say their #8 pick this year would be pretty good return for a player who we would only be trading if we doubted his health or were expecting him to sign elsewhere anyway.  Porzingis is a FA also but I think Restricted.  He is the linchpin of the deal.  He would be great starting alongside Horford (as would Davis but in your deal, we give up Horford who NOP wouldn't want anyway).

I applaud your creative and thoughtful trade.  I just like the first part but only under certain conditions as I explained.
Even though we dont get a top 15 player I could live with that trade you suggested if the 8th pick was added in. But I don't know if Knicks would do it.
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2018, 12:45:09 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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I don't believe that NOP are going to trade Davis even if they get Porzingis, Horford, and the rest of the haul you describe.

My take away from your proposed deal is if we are resigned to the fact that we need to trade Kyrie, and we can get Porzingis and a lottery pick for him, just stop right there.  I don't want to trade Kyrie but if we doubt his health or our ability to resign him, then getting Porzingis and a good pick is a pretty good return.  But instead of Courtney Lee, I want either Ntilikina or Mudiay (Knicks choice) and say Lance Thomas as the slightly upgraded filler.  We have no need for Courtney Lee.  Rather have a point guard project (Knicks will no longer need both if they have Kyrie) and a depth big.
So Porzingis, a pick and fillers would satisfy you for moving Irving if Irving preferred NY to Bos?

I only see moving Irving if we can secure a top 15 player to replace him. Which I thought throw everything at Davis (minus Hayward, Tatum, and Brown).

I would trade Kyrie for Davis but I don't think it is realistic that NOP would trade Davis and I don't like your overall deal.  Reread the bolded part above.  Yes, I think Porzingis, Ntilikina, and say their #8 pick this year would be pretty good return for a player who we would only be trading if we doubted his health or were expecting him to sign elsewhere anyway.  Porzingis is a FA also but I think Restricted.  He is the linchpin of the deal.  He would be great starting alongside Horford (as would Davis but in your deal, we give up Horford who NOP wouldn't want anyway).

I applaud your creative and thoughtful trade.  I just like the first part but only under certain conditions as I explained.
Even though we dont get a top 15 player I could live with that trade you suggested if the 8th pick was added in. But I don't know if Knicks would do it.

NBA trades are always complicated.  Knicks probably only consider trading Porzingis if they doubt they can resign him (he has expressed some frustrations).  If the Knicks are hung up on the #8 pick, maybe we put in a future Memphis pick or something or change the #8 to a future Knicks pick or something else.  I am not fixated on that part.  Porzingis is a pretty rare player and is the key, Ntilikina is a promising PG prospect (about as valuable as a draft pick), Thomas is filler at a position of need, and anything else is deck chairs in my opinion.  They can be rearranged to suit the deal.

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2018, 12:57:09 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
' trade Irving, Horford, Rozier and Kings pick

This is the problem with it, your trading both Irving and Rozier and that would be not be wise.   We need one or the other.  As is usual the word, bad should precede most trades on this board.

Who is going to play point guard.

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2018, 02:05:06 PM »

Online Sophomore

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Quote
' trade Irving, Horford, Rozier and Kings pick

This is the problem with it, your trading both Irving and Rozier and that would be not be wise.   We need one or the other.  As is usual the word, bad should precede most trades on this board.

Who is going to play point guard.

In the OP’s deal, Celtics would get Jrue Holiday - a PG who averaged 20 points and  6 assists last  year. I’d put his skill level between Rozier and Kyrie - above average starting PG, not quite an all star.

Think the Pellies give up too much in that trade.

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2018, 02:29:45 PM »

Online Csfan1984

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Quote
' trade Irving, Horford, Rozier and Kings pick

This is the problem with it, your trading both Irving and Rozier and that would be not be wise.   We need one or the other.  As is usual the word, bad should precede most trades on this board.

Who is going to play point guard.

In the OPs deal, Celtics would get Jrue Holiday - a PG who averaged 20 points and  6 assists last  year. Id put his skill level between Rozier and Kyrie - above average starting PG, not quite an all star.

Think the Pellies give up too much in that trade.
Yeah Jrue plays the point.

The trade for Pelicans is cap and future enhancing with the way contracts can lay out and good picks come from outside. In the same way C's got the chance to compete and grow without tanking thanks to the Nets picks, Pelicans get the same growth chance. Right now the Pelicans would be in serious trouble going into FA. This changes that.
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2018, 02:59:05 PM »

Offline wiley

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It's too much of a step backwards for the Pelicans after their playoff run, which, with a healthy Boogie, could have gone deep with Golden State.

In other words, after this trade the Pelicans absolutely would have to worry about re-signing Rondo and Cousins.  When you lose AD and Jrue and then let Rondo go too....the team is just all the way gone.  A recovering Porzingis (when?), Horford and Rozier won't cut it...  The picks are nice, but this is a trade to make when on the absolute verge of losing Davis, not before that point. 

If they trade AD this summer they have to re-sign Boogie (even if they added Horford and Porzingis) and then be patient with his recovery....but in the meantime they need a true healthy star to keep the success going. 

Otherwise the Pels will look like the Knicks of the West with a couple more draft picks....


Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2018, 03:21:18 PM »

Online Csfan1984

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It's too much of a step backwards for the Pelicans after their playoff run, which, with a healthy Boogie, could have gone deep with Golden State.

In other words, after this trade the Pelicans absolutely would have to worry about re-signing Rondo and Cousins.  When you lose AD and Jrue and then let Rondo go too....the team is just all the way gone.  A recovering Porzingis (when?), Horford and Rozier won't cut it...  The picks are nice, but this is a trade to make when on the absolute verge of losing Davis, not before that point. 

If they trade AD this summer they have to re-sign Boogie (even if they added Horford and Porzingis) and then be patient with his recovery....but in the meantime they need a true healthy star to keep the success going.
What if Boogie isn't staying? There is a  chance he goes to Lakers with PG. Also Pelicans have seen both sides to Rondo they may not want to resign him. If those two things happen its

Holiday, Moore, Hill, Mirotic, Davis
Vs
Rozier, Lee, Mirotic, Horford, Porzingis.

Both lineups fall of course to Rockets and Warriors. The second Pelican team at least has cap space and good picks coming up to improve the club. The first team is in no man's land with a super star who will probably ask for a trade his last year.
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2018, 04:13:10 PM »

Offline wiley

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It's too much of a step backwards for the Pelicans after their playoff run, which, with a healthy Boogie, could have gone deep with Golden State.

In other words, after this trade the Pelicans absolutely would have to worry about re-signing Rondo and Cousins.  When you lose AD and Jrue and then let Rondo go too....the team is just all the way gone.  A recovering Porzingis (when?), Horford and Rozier won't cut it...  The picks are nice, but this is a trade to make when on the absolute verge of losing Davis, not before that point. 

If they trade AD this summer they have to re-sign Boogie (even if they added Horford and Porzingis) and then be patient with his recovery....but in the meantime they need a true healthy star to keep the success going.
What if Boogie isn't staying? There is a  chance he goes to Lakers with PG. Also Pelicans have seen both sides to Rondo they may not want to resign him. If those two things happen its

Holiday, Moore, Hill, Mirotic, Davis
Vs
Rozier, Lee, Mirotic, Horford, Porzingis.

Both lineups fall of course to Rockets and Warriors. The second Pelican team at least has cap space and good picks coming up to improve the club. The first team is in no man's land with a super star who will probably ask for a trade his last year.

I think if Boogie isn't staying they'll hold on even tighter to AD until they're forced to trade.  With a guy like AD I don't think his value will drop much in a forced trade scenario because the number of teams competing will keep the value up as high as it should be.

Not saying your trade wouldn't work out in the long run, but it just would be a big gamble for the future and also a step back next year.

If he's going to demand a trade, then I think they'll wait and trade him at that juncture....there would be so many teams competing with offers...I think they could do better than the above deal, even if it's just a fully recovered Porzingis who is playing well and a Sac. pick that turns out to be #2, 3 or 4 in next year's draft...or other deals entirely.  I'm not sure the timing on AD's contract so I can't speak to that...My impression was they don't have to rush...and I think they can do better.....and if they do something this summer I think they can ask for a healthy superstar as well as draft picks...I think Porzingis needs to establish/re-establish himself as a big time, durable star before giving up AD for him. 

Giannis, Kyrie, Towns, plus draft picks and or other young potential stars. I don't think Rozier is there yet value wise and Horford's age plus contract are off putting. 

To get AD at this point would require a huge cost.  My own idea was Irving, Brown and Horford for AD and Holiday...which I can't say is worth it, but certainly yes if the Celtics think they know Irving's future plans don't include Boston.  Irving much closer to health than Porzingis.  Brown more appealing for next year's Pels than the future picks.  That's how scary I think the cost would be.  Danny might say no, though I kind of like it as I'm such a fan of Jrue Holiday, of course AD, and would enjoy watching Rozier continue in Boston...

Jrue, Rozier, Smart, Larkin
Hayward, Smart, Bird
Tatum, Hayward, Morris, Smart, Ojeleye
AD, Morris, Tatum, Theis, Ojeleye
Baynes, AD, Theis

free agent back up center

pick 27:  Spellman, Khyri Thomas, DiVenzo, Okogie

Danny probably says no to this deal...And Pelicans say no too unless Irving shocks everyone and says yes I want to be a Pelican for the next 5 years...

Let's revisit your trade after Porzingis shows signs of full recovery....

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2018, 04:22:26 PM »

Online Csfan1984

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It's too much of a step backwards for the Pelicans after their playoff run, which, with a healthy Boogie, could have gone deep with Golden State.

In other words, after this trade the Pelicans absolutely would have to worry about re-signing Rondo and Cousins.  When you lose AD and Jrue and then let Rondo go too....the team is just all the way gone.  A recovering Porzingis (when?), Horford and Rozier won't cut it...  The picks are nice, but this is a trade to make when on the absolute verge of losing Davis, not before that point. 

If they trade AD this summer they have to re-sign Boogie (even if they added Horford and Porzingis) and then be patient with his recovery....but in the meantime they need a true healthy star to keep the success going.
What if Boogie isn't staying? There is a  chance he goes to Lakers with PG. Also Pelicans have seen both sides to Rondo they may not want to resign him. If those two things happen its

Holiday, Moore, Hill, Mirotic, Davis
Vs
Rozier, Lee, Mirotic, Horford, Porzingis.

Both lineups fall of course to Rockets and Warriors. The second Pelican team at least has cap space and good picks coming up to improve the club. The first team is in no man's land with a super star who will probably ask for a trade his last year.

I think if Boogie isn't staying they'll hold on even tighter to AD until they're forced to trade.  With a guy like AD I don't think his value will drop much in a forced trade scenario because the number of teams competing will keep the value up as high as it should be.

Not saying your trade wouldn't work out in the long run, but it just would be a big gamble for the future and also a step back next year.

If he's going to demand a trade, then I think they'll wait and trade him at that juncture....there would be so many teams competing with offers...I think they could do better than the above deal, even if it's just a fully recovered Porzingis who is playing well and a Sac. pick that turns out to be #2, 3 or 4 in next year's draft...or other deals entirely.  I'm not sure the timing on AD's contract so I can't speak to that...My impression was they don't have to rush...and I think they can do better.....and if they do something this summer I think they can ask for a healthy superstar as well as draft picks...I think Porzingis needs to establish/re-establish himself as a big time, durable star before giving up AD for him. 

Giannis, Kyrie, Towns, plus draft picks and or other young potential stars. I don't think Rozier is there yet value wise and Horford's age plus contract are off putting. 

To get AD at this point would require a huge cost.  My own idea was Irving, Brown and Horford for AD and Holiday...which I can't say is worth it, but certainly yes if the Celtics think they know Irving's future plans don't include Boston.  Irving much closer to health than Porzingis.  Brown more appealing for next year's Pels than the future picks.  That's how scary I think the cost would be.  Danny might say no, though I kind of like it as I'm such a fan of Jrue Holiday, of course AD, and would enjoy watching Rozier continue in Boston...

Jrue, Rozier, Smart, Larkin
Hayward, Smart, Bird
Tatum, Hayward, Morris, Smart, Ojeleye
AD, Morris, Tatum, Theis, Ojeleye
Baynes, AD, Theis

free agent back up center

pick 27:  Spellman, Khyri Thomas, DiVenzo, Okogie

Danny probably says no to this deal...And Pelicans say no too unless Irving shocks everyone and says yes I want to be a Pelican for the next 5 years...

Let's revisit your trade after Porzingis shows signs of full recovery....
I wouldn't site health risk as an issue since AD himself has an injury plagued history. But it's fair to say waiting on FA and medical reports before agreeing to this trade would be important to all three clubs. If Cousins remains you don't do the deal.
Mock "trade deadline" team: Blazers.
PG-Lillard, Napier, Baldwin
SG-McCollum, Connaughton, Wilcox
SF-Fournier, Harkless, Layman
PF-Aminu, Davis
C- Nurkic, Leonard, Collins

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2018, 05:06:31 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Id put his skill level between Rozier and Kyrie - above average starting PG, not quite an all star.

He shot worse from three than Rozier or Kyrie this last year at 33%.  Terry shot 38% and Kyrie shot 41%  and we need floor spreaders in our offense.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/roziete01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/holidjr01.html

I think it might be easier to get Towns for Kyrie and some picks  and start Terry who I think has some built in cost control.   We get a Center, Play Al at PF, and move a wing to the sixth man role and add to our versatility.   

I don't think this trade nets us AD, he is a big star and they will want much more.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 05:13:54 PM by Celtics4ever »

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2018, 05:11:47 PM »

Online Sophomore

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Id put his skill level between Rozier and Kyrie - above average starting PG, not quite an all star.

He shot worse from three than Rozier or Kyrie this last year at 33%.  Terry shot 38% and Kyrie shot 41%  and we need floor spreaders in our offense.

Hes not as good a 3-point shooter, its true. But hes a good shot creator and midrange guy, with a reasonable if not great TS% of 57%.

A Celtics team with AD and Jrue surrounded by three 40% 3-point shooters (Hayward, Tatum, Brown) would probably be OK.