We might lose Mike Zarren to the 76ers. Thoughts?

[Beat LA]

He's one of those analytics dudes, so I could really care less, lol .

I'd like you to become GM of the 76ers, you'd take them on the right direction 

LOL, TP . Couldn't do it, though, honestly, given that I bleed green and all .

If it happens there would be an opening in the Celtics front office.

Mr. Ainge, I’m available!

Get in line, brah. I already applied last year, bahahahahahahaha .

[Monkhouse]

Yeah this is not good news for us... Zarren is one of the most prolific analytical people that we currently have in our organization, and he's also our assistant GM, so yes.. We have plenty to lose..

Strength is not in numbers

The Celtics have one of the league’s smallest and most airtight collections of executives and evaluators.

The five key figures are Zarren, Danny Ainge, Austin Ainge, director of scouting Dave Lewin, and coach Brad Stevens. There also is a handful of scouts and a few analytics experts, and that, essentially, is it.

The main roles seem clear. Zarren, the assistant general manager, leads the analytics staff and is the salary-cap guru. Austin Ainge heads the scouting department, with an emphasis on overseas players. Stevens’s knowledge of the rest of the NBA — players the Celtics might want to trade for or sign — is essential.

Zarren, a Harvard Law School graduate and former management consultant for Fortune 500 companies, did not have a deep background as a talent scout when he arrived here. But when Chris Wallace left Boston to be the Grizzlies’ general manager in 2007-08, Zarren began to take on more responsibility, and he now holds a considerable role as an evaluator.

Some general managers are focused primarily on personnel matters, like trades and signings, while delegating some of the most exhaustive college scouting duties to staff members. But Danny Ainge is known as a voracious consumer of film.

I can't believe you guys are really okay with Zarren leaving..

He would undeniably make that 76ers franchise a lot stronger... To boot... He's second to none in scouting... He leads most of the personnel and scouting, and makes any final say along with Stevens and Ainge agreeing with him. (Which is generally pretty much all the time, except when they argue and squabble occasionally. Which is a pretty good indicator of a healthy relationship.)

I would be very upset, because he's also our salary cap guru, and knows his ins and outs between the entire league. He's well connected with Hinkie, and Morey, and has plenty of pull within the league.

He's also the one who orchestrated the majority of the Bradley, and Crowder deals by urging Ainge to sign the deal as quick as possible.

Zarren was hired as a intern by Morey, who proclaimed, that he was 'excellent at his job, and wouldn't be surprised to see him end up as a GM.'

https://twitter.com/samhinkie/status/816717450087514112/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhardwoodhoudini.com%2F2017%2F07%2F14%2Fmike-zarren-danny-ainges-eventual-replacement%2F

[18isGREATERthan72]

I sincerely hope Ainge takes on the role of "President of Basketball Operations" and Zarren slides in as the General Manager.  This guy has more than earned a spot in this organization.  For those of you who don't think it's a big deal to lose him, you might want to do some research on him and what he actually brings to the table for us.  For all the "Ainge is a genius" comments I hear, this guy is like the ghost writer for Ainge.  Not only would it set us back some, it would also propel the 76ers forward.

[Monkhouse]

I sincerely hope Ainge takes on the role of "President of Basketball Operations" and Zarren slides in as the General Manager.  This guy has more than earned a spot in this organization.  For those of you who don't think it's a big deal to lose him, you might want to do some research on him and what he actually brings to the table for us.  For all the "Ainge is a genius" comments I hear, this guy is like the ghost writer for Ainge.  Not only would it set us back some, it would also propel the 76ers forward.

Huh?

You do realize Ainge is the President of Basketball Operations right?

If you mean that Zarren should slide into a more prominent role, and take GM as a full time role, well sure... But that's basically what he's doing with Ainge... He's just doing it under the role of 'Assistant General Manager.' But it's been widely believed by the time, Ainge retires, Zarren is in line for his spot. It's just a matter or question of, how long does Zarren want to wait for that to happen.

[Beat LA]

Yeah this is not good news for us... Zarren is one of the most prolific analytical people that we currently have in our organization, and he's also our assistant GM, so yes.. We have plenty to lose..

Are we sure that that's a good thing, though? I understand that he's obviously beyond extremely intelligent, but in watching a few of those MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conferences, idk, it just seems like he's missing the forest for the trees when it comes to basketball, imo, and I view Morey as being the same way, but whatever. I'm weird .

[Monkhouse]

Yeah this is not good news for us... Zarren is one of the most prolific analytical people that we currently have in our organization, and he's also our assistant GM, so yes.. We have plenty to lose..

Are we sure that that's a good thing, though? I understand that he's obviously beyond extremely intelligent, but in watching a few of those MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conferences, idk, it just seems like he's missing the forest for the trees when it comes to basketball, imo, and I view Morey as being the same way, but whatever. I'm weird .

So you're stating that while Zarren is extremely smart, you're suggesting that he might be too smart for his own good? How so? Is it because you're not a firm believer in analytics? Do you believe Zarren may eventually revolt, or be upset with his role going forward?

[tarheelsxxiii]

If it happens there would be an opening in the Celtics front office.

Mr. Ainge, I’m available!

Not only a well-deserved personal accomplishment, you would legitimize the value of the blog and save us from being shut down.  Save us, salty.

[hwangjini_1]

Yeah this is not good news for us... Zarren is one of the most prolific analytical people that we currently have in our organization, and he's also our assistant GM, so yes.. We have plenty to lose..

Strength is not in numbers

The Celtics have one of the league’s smallest and most airtight collections of executives and evaluators.

The five key figures are Zarren, Danny Ainge, Austin Ainge, director of scouting Dave Lewin, and coach Brad Stevens. There also is a handful of scouts and a few analytics experts, and that, essentially, is it.

The main roles seem clear. Zarren, the assistant general manager, leads the analytics staff and is the salary-cap guru. Austin Ainge heads the scouting department, with an emphasis on overseas players. Stevens’s knowledge of the rest of the NBA — players the Celtics might want to trade for or sign — is essential.

Zarren, a Harvard Law School graduate and former management consultant for Fortune 500 companies, did not have a deep background as a talent scout when he arrived here. But when Chris Wallace left Boston to be the Grizzlies’ general manager in 2007-08, Zarren began to take on more responsibility, and he now holds a considerable role as an evaluator.

Some general managers are focused primarily on personnel matters, like trades and signings, while delegating some of the most exhaustive college scouting duties to staff members. But Danny Ainge is known as a voracious consumer of film.

I can't believe you guys are really okay with Zarren leaving..

He would undeniably make that 76ers franchise a lot stronger... To boot... He's second to none in scouting... He leads most of the personnel and scouting, and makes any final say along with Stevens and Ainge agreeing with him. (Which is generally pretty much all the time, except when they argue and squabble occasionally. Which is a pretty good indicator of a healthy relationship.)

I would be very upset, because he's also our salary cap guru, and knows his ins and outs between the entire league. He's well connected with Hinkie, and Morey, and has plenty of pull within the league.

He's also the one who orchestrated the majority of the Bradley, and Crowder deals by urging Ainge to sign the deal as quick as possible.

Zarren was hired as a intern by Morey, who proclaimed, that he was 'excellent at his job, and wouldn't be surprised to see him end up as a GM.'

https://twitter.com/samhinkie/status/816717450087514112/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhardwoodhoudini.com%2F2017%2F07%2F14%2Fmike-zarren-danny-ainges-eventual-replacement%2F

i am not sure what your point is. the celtics cant keep people who dont want to stay. posters here have zero zip nada nothing to say that influences the decision. and who knows? ainge may bring in someone as good or better. we don't really know the pool of young talent out there.

this is what happens to any well run organization. they bring in good young minds, develop them, and then those minds move on...to be replaced with other good young minds.

it was time for zarren to leave. i wish him good luck and trust ainge will bring in someone else who is going to help the celtics.

[Monkhouse]

Yeah this is not good news for us... Zarren is one of the most prolific analytical people that we currently have in our organization, and he's also our assistant GM, so yes.. We have plenty to lose..

Strength is not in numbers

The Celtics have one of the league’s smallest and most airtight collections of executives and evaluators.

The five key figures are Zarren, Danny Ainge, Austin Ainge, director of scouting Dave Lewin, and coach Brad Stevens. There also is a handful of scouts and a few analytics experts, and that, essentially, is it.

The main roles seem clear. Zarren, the assistant general manager, leads the analytics staff and is the salary-cap guru. Austin Ainge heads the scouting department, with an emphasis on overseas players. Stevens’s knowledge of the rest of the NBA — players the Celtics might want to trade for or sign — is essential.

Zarren, a Harvard Law School graduate and former management consultant for Fortune 500 companies, did not have a deep background as a talent scout when he arrived here. But when Chris Wallace left Boston to be the Grizzlies’ general manager in 2007-08, Zarren began to take on more responsibility, and he now holds a considerable role as an evaluator.

Some general managers are focused primarily on personnel matters, like trades and signings, while delegating some of the most exhaustive college scouting duties to staff members. But Danny Ainge is known as a voracious consumer of film.

I can't believe you guys are really okay with Zarren leaving..

He would undeniably make that 76ers franchise a lot stronger... To boot... He's second to none in scouting... He leads most of the personnel and scouting, and makes any final say along with Stevens and Ainge agreeing with him. (Which is generally pretty much all the time, except when they argue and squabble occasionally. Which is a pretty good indicator of a healthy relationship.)

I would be very upset, because he's also our salary cap guru, and knows his ins and outs between the entire league. He's well connected with Hinkie, and Morey, and has plenty of pull within the league.

He's also the one who orchestrated the majority of the Bradley, and Crowder deals by urging Ainge to sign the deal as quick as possible.

Zarren was hired as a intern by Morey, who proclaimed, that he was 'excellent at his job, and wouldn't be surprised to see him end up as a GM.'

https://twitter.com/samhinkie/status/816717450087514112/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fhardwoodhoudini.com%2F2017%2F07%2F14%2Fmike-zarren-danny-ainges-eventual-replacement%2F

i am not sure what your point is. the celtics cant keep people who dont want to stay. posters here have zero zip nada nothing to say that influences the decision. and who knows? ainge may bring in someone as good or better. we don't really know the pool of young talent out there.

this is what happens to any well run organization. they bring in good young minds, develop them, and then those minds move on...to be replaced with other good young minds.

it was time for zarren to leave. i wish him good luck and trust ainge will bring in someone else who is going to help the celtics.

I felt like my point was pretty clear to be honest.

If he leaves, it'll be a huge blow to our franchise. At the end of the day, as you said, people move on. I just wish he would go elsewhere besides the 76ers. Either way, wherever he goes, best of luck to him.

[Beat LA]

Yeah this is not good news for us... Zarren is one of the most prolific analytical people that we currently have in our organization, and he's also our assistant GM, so yes.. We have plenty to lose..

Are we sure that that's a good thing, though? I understand that he's obviously beyond extremely intelligent, but in watching a few of those MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conferences, idk, it just seems like he's missing the forest for the trees when it comes to basketball, imo, and I view Morey as being the same way, but whatever. I'm weird .

So you're stating that while Zarren is extremely smart, you're suggesting that he might be too smart for his own good? How so? Is it because you're not a firm believer in analytics? Do you believe Zarren may eventually revolt, or be upset with his role going forward?

In terms of the first part, in a way, yes. Like I said, he's clearly incredibly smart, it's just that I think that guys like him, Morey, Stevens, and Ainge have become so obsessed with all of these formulas and crap that they can't see beyond the numbers when it comes to basketball.

Case in point, look at the two teams that lost in their respective conference finals, this year, in Boston and Houston - do you think that it's a coincidence that both of them continued to lose in exactly the same fashion, i.e. continuing to chuck threes at an absurd clip despite the fact that not only were they not hitting them, and in record-setting fashion, I might add, but also that both clubs did so at the expense of taking higher percentage shots, but I certainly don't.

Honestly, to me, the losses weren't even in terms of team vs. team. Rather, it was analytics vs. a genius, in Lebron, and the guys in Golden State, respectively, and the whole thing reminds me of the aftermath of the 2003 ALCS, quite honestly, and I say this as a former Yankees fan, btw, lol .

Numbers definitely have their place in basketball, but at some point it's simply too much. Even Morey, as smart as he is, looked at the Warriors and essentially incorrectly identified/attempted to reduce them to the lowest common denominator, i.e. a three point shooting team, and therefore, to him, the way in which you could possibly defeat the Warriors would come by assembling a team almost entirely comprised of, well, three point shooters, regardless if the rest of their respective games of said players are/were lacking, and ultimately, it simply didn't work.

Idk man, but to me, unless someone can think of a way in which to clone Curry, Thompson, Durant, and Green, for starters (no pun intended, btw ), you will not beat the Warriors by playing their game. Do you think that the Celtics of the 80s would have beaten the Showtime Lakers in a dunk contest, lol? Absolutely not, but that doesn't mean that the Lakers, or any other team, for that matter (well, except for the 86 Celtics , lol ), is unbeatable. You just have to put together a team that functions extremely well together, and, hopefully, has the coaching, intelligence, and players, needed to exploit the weakness(es) of your opponents. It's not rocket science (again, no pun intended ), is it?

No idea about Zarren possibly going rogue, btw, lol .

[Monkhouse]

Yeah this is not good news for us... Zarren is one of the most prolific analytical people that we currently have in our organization, and he's also our assistant GM, so yes.. We have plenty to lose..

Are we sure that that's a good thing, though? I understand that he's obviously beyond extremely intelligent, but in watching a few of those MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conferences, idk, it just seems like he's missing the forest for the trees when it comes to basketball, imo, and I view Morey as being the same way, but whatever. I'm weird .

So you're stating that while Zarren is extremely smart, you're suggesting that he might be too smart for his own good? How so? Is it because you're not a firm believer in analytics? Do you believe Zarren may eventually revolt, or be upset with his role going forward?

In terms of the first part, in a way, yes. Like I said, he's clearly incredibly smart, it's just that I think that guys like him, Morey, Stevens, and Ainge have become so obsessed with all of these formulas and crap that they can't see beyond the numbers when it comes to basketball.

Case in point, look at the two teams that lost in their respective conference finals, this year, in Boston and Houston - do you think that it's a coincidence that both of them continued to lose in exactly the same fashion, i.e. continuing to chuck threes at an absurd clip despite the fact that not only were they not hitting them, and in record-setting fashion, I might add, but also that both clubs did so at the expense of taking higher percentage shots, but I certainly don't.

Honestly, to me, the losses weren't even in terms of team vs. team. Rather, it was analytics vs. a genius, in Lebron, and the guys in Golden State, respectively, and the whole thing reminds me of the aftermath of the 2003 ALCS, quite honestly, and I say this as a former Yankees fan, btw, lol .

Numbers definitely have their place in basketball, but at some point it's simply too much. Even Morey, as smart as he is, looked at the Warriors and essentially incorrectly identified/attempted to reduce them to the lowest common denominator, i.e. a three point shooting team, and therefore, to him, the way in which you could possibly defeat the Warriors would come by assembling a team almost entirely comprised of, well, three point shooters, regardless if the rest of their respective games of said players are/were lacking, and ultimately, it simply didn't work.

Idk man, but to me, unless someone can think of a way in which to clone Curry, Thompson, Durant, and Green, for starters (no pun intended, btw ), you will not beat the Warriors by playing their game. Do you think that the Celtics of the 80s would have beaten the Showtime Lakers in a dunk contest, lol? Absolutely not, but that doesn't mean that the Lakers, or any other team, for that matter (well, except for the 86 Celtics , lol ), is unbeatable. You just have to put together a team that functions extremely well together, and, hopefully, has the coaching, intelligence, and players, needed to exploit the weakness(es) of your opponents. It's not rocket science (again, no pun intended ), is it?

No idea about Zarren possibly going rogue, btw, lol .

I will agree to most of your points, although Morey designed a team that was VERY close to beating the Warriors. If they had CP3? I don't know. We might be singing a different tune, plus the Celtics vs Cavs loss may be tough pill to swallow, but I think it'll be a tough learning lesson for us, because the Celtics literally shot themselves out of that game.

Something Stevens will stress to his young players.

But I see your point as the Rockets took a lot of 3's this year. Something D'Antoni is well known for his uptempo offense/system.

[mr. dee]

Mike who??

this is how much I care 

Mike Jones

[Beat LA]

Yeah this is not good news for us... Zarren is one of the most prolific analytical people that we currently have in our organization, and he's also our assistant GM, so yes.. We have plenty to lose..

Are we sure that that's a good thing, though? I understand that he's obviously beyond extremely intelligent, but in watching a few of those MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conferences, idk, it just seems like he's missing the forest for the trees when it comes to basketball, imo, and I view Morey as being the same way, but whatever. I'm weird .

So you're stating that while Zarren is extremely smart, you're suggesting that he might be too smart for his own good? How so? Is it because you're not a firm believer in analytics? Do you believe Zarren may eventually revolt, or be upset with his role going forward?

In terms of the first part, in a way, yes. Like I said, he's clearly incredibly smart, it's just that I think that guys like him, Morey, Stevens, and Ainge have become so obsessed with all of these formulas and crap that they can't see beyond the numbers when it comes to basketball.

Case in point, look at the two teams that lost in their respective conference finals, this year, in Boston and Houston - do you think that it's a coincidence that both of them continued to lose in exactly the same fashion, i.e. continuing to chuck threes at an absurd clip despite the fact that not only were they not hitting them, and in record-setting fashion, I might add, but also that both clubs did so at the expense of taking higher percentage shots, but I certainly don't.

Honestly, to me, the losses weren't even in terms of team vs. team. Rather, it was analytics vs. a genius, in Lebron, and the guys in Golden State, respectively, and the whole thing reminds me of the aftermath of the 2003 ALCS, quite honestly, and I say this as a former Yankees fan, btw, lol .

Numbers definitely have their place in basketball, but at some point it's simply too much. Even Morey, as smart as he is, looked at the Warriors and essentially incorrectly identified/attempted to reduce them to the lowest common denominator, i.e. a three point shooting team, and therefore, to him, the way in which you could possibly defeat the Warriors would come by assembling a team almost entirely comprised of, well, three point shooters, regardless if the rest of their respective games of said players are/were lacking, and ultimately, it simply didn't work.

Idk man, but to me, unless someone can think of a way in which to clone Curry, Thompson, Durant, and Green, for starters (no pun intended, btw ), you will not beat the Warriors by playing their game. Do you think that the Celtics of the 80s would have beaten the Showtime Lakers in a dunk contest, lol? Absolutely not, but that doesn't mean that the Lakers, or any other team, for that matter (well, except for the 86 Celtics , lol ), is unbeatable. You just have to put together a team that functions extremely well together, and, hopefully, has the coaching, intelligence, and players, needed to exploit the weakness(es) of your opponents. It's not rocket science (again, no pun intended ), is it?

No idea about Zarren possibly going rogue, btw, lol .

I will agree to most of your points, although Morey designed a team that was VERY close to beating the Warriors. If they had CP3? I don't know. We might be singing a different tune, plus the Celtics vs Cavs loss may be tough pill to swallow, but I think it'll be a tough learning lesson for us, because the Celtics literally shot themselves out of that game.

Something Stevens will stress to his young players.

But I see your point as the Rockets took a lot of 3's this year. Something D'Antoni is well known for his uptempo offense/system.

Yeah, who knows as to what happens if Paul had been able to play, but either way, the strict adherence to analytics insofar as the three point shot it concerned ultimately cost both the Celtics and the Rockets, imo. How many times during the course of Game 7 was Horford being guarded by GEORGE HILL , of all people, right underneath the basket, only for Rozier, Brown, Smart, and Morris, to an extent, to completely ignore the dude and continue to chuck threes because numbers? Like, that's not only a lack of intelligence on the part of the players, but it's also a complete failure to understand the sport of basketball, imo.

Btw, the reason as to why I mentioned the 2003 ALCS is because, if you'll remember, when Theo brought in Bill James and all of those guys, iirc, and started rebuilding the team based on a heavy dose of sabermetrics, one of the underlying themes of said school of thought was that they just did not believe that the final three outs of a baseball game were any different to the other 24 , and therefore, they surmised that the task of closing games could simply be accomplished via committee , and it cost them dearly in that series.

Fortunately for Boston fans, in addition to the Yankees just destroying the very fabric of what had made them so great for so long, i.e. pitching, during the offseason in 2003, Theo and his team, however begrudgingly, had to accept the uncomfortable reality that there was a significant flaw in their philosophy, and as a result, in addition to a bevy of other outstanding moves that were made over the course of the next season, they went out and acquired an actual closer in Keith Foulke, who was simply lights-out in the playoffs, that year, and who was certainly one of the primary factors in as to why the Red Sox were ultimately able to end the 86 year curse/drought, and that's where I see the Celtics, right now.

As we speak, the franchise is at a bit of a crossroads in terms of their approach to the game, imo. Will they continue to act like Charlie Brown and the football in terms of, well, continuing to roll with the same approach vis-a-vis the three point shot going into next season, or will they recognize that the game is about far more than statistics and bring in a guy/some dudes with brains to put them over the top, hopefully?

Imagine if Rondo had been running the team against the Cavs in the Eastern Conference Finals. Do you really think that he would have allowed us to just continue to chuck threes, incessantly, or would he have recognized the mismatches/foul situations and gotten the ball to the right players in the correct/much better spots on the court, and especially down the stretch of Game 7? Idk about you, but my money is on the latter, and had that been the case, we definitely would have beaten Lebron, imo.

That's the difference.