Poll

Who is the GOAT?

MJ
28 (56%)
LJ
5 (10%)
other
17 (34%)

Total Members Voted: 50

Author Topic: MJ vs LJ  (Read 1849 times)

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Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2018, 03:11:49 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Jordan played defense every possession...LBJ does not

Jordan was a better teammate and leader

Jordan is 6-0 on the biggest of stages.
Jordan playing defense every possession is the funniest thing I've read on here in a very long time. 

Jordan most certainly was not a better teammate and it is arguable that he was a better leader.  Different type of leader, but certainly arguable he was better.

Jordan also failed to reach the Finals 9 of his 15 seasons and got his 6 wins in the weakest (or 2nd weakest) decade of basketball the sport has ever seen.  I mean when he took his break, the Rockets won a title with Otis Thorpe as the 2nd best player on that team.  OTIS THORPE.

I like how you knock Jordan for missing the Finals 9 times and the 90ís being weak, but credit LeBron for making it out of the 10ís EAST. The East has been so notoriously weak since Jordan retired.

You can probably count on one hand how many runner-ups in the East were legit teams. I honestly think only the 2006-2008 Pistons were championship caliber. And considering the East has only won 6 of the last 20 Finals (including this one, itís over), itís safe to say the East is clearly inferior.

LeBron has without a doubt capitalized on a weak conference the last 8 years (but his 2007 appearance was undoubtedly impressive, but he got utterly embarrassed when he met the Spurs).

I do not buy that teams with stars like Barkley/KJ or Clyde or Ewing or Payton/Kemp or Stockton/Malone would not be good in this era, at all. The only win LeBron has thatís impressive compared to Jordanís competition is the 2016 win over GSW.

If LeBron played in the West, he probably wouldnít have made half the Finals he has. Jordan? He was 6-0 against the Westís best, so thatís not applicable to him. Who knows if the Bulls could have won a couple more had Jordan not retired twice following three-peats, but thatís a story for another day.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2018, 03:17:34 PM »

Online celticsclay

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Jordan played defense every possession...LBJ does not

Jordan was a better teammate and leader

Jordan is 6-0 on the biggest of stages.
Jordan playing defense every possession is the funniest thing I've read on here in a very long time. 

Jordan most certainly was not a better teammate and it is arguable that he was a better leader.  Different type of leader, but certainly arguable he was better.

Jordan also failed to reach the Finals 9 of his 15 seasons and got his 6 wins in the weakest (or 2nd weakest) decade of basketball the sport has ever seen.  I mean when he took his break, the Rockets won a title with Otis Thorpe as the 2nd best player on that team.  OTIS THORPE.

I like how you knock Jordan for missing the Finals 9 times and the 90ís being weak, but credit LeBron for making it out of the 10ís EAST. The East has been so notoriously weak since Jordan retired.

You can probably count on one hand how many runner-ups in the East were legit teams. I honestly think only the 2006-2008 Pistons were championship caliber. And considering the East has only won 6 of the last 20 Finals (including this one, itís over), itís safe to say the East is clearly inferior.

LeBron has without a doubt capitalized on a weak conference the last 8 years (but his 2007 appearance was undoubtedly impressive, but he got utterly embarrassed when he met the Spurs).

I do not buy that teams with stars like Barkley/KJ or Clyde or Ewing or Payton/Kemp or Stockton/Malone would not be good in this era, at all. The only win LeBron has thatís impressive compared to Jordanís competition is the 2016 win over GSW.

If LeBron played in the West, he probably wouldnít have made half the Finals he has. Jordan? He was 6-0 against the Westís best, so thatís not applicable to him. Who knows if the Bulls could have won a couple more had Jordan not retired twice following three-peats, but thatís a story for another day.

I think nothing epitomized the weakness of the east this year than our run to game 7 of the conference finals. I love our guys and think Tatum, Brown and maybe Rozier will be great players. However, without Theis, Irving and Hayward we had no business being in game 7 of a conference finals and were there because all the teams were seriously flawed and weak.

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2018, 05:25:06 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Jordan most certainly was not a better teammate and it is arguable that he was a better leader.  Different type of leader, but certainly arguable he was better.

Yep, he was a jerk but he also did not undermine a ton of coaches like the LBJ

The only argument I see about who is better that might be relevent is who is more productive.   Jordan wins the titles arguments, Jordan was more popular.

Jordan played 13 seasons and LeBron 15 and he still almost beat him on win shares.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html

Jordan lead the league in scoring for 10 of his 11 seasons

Check out the post season scoring leader, hint it is not LeBron

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/player_post_pts.html

Also , Which was stronger team mates Wade, Bosh and LeBron
or Jordan, Pippen and Rodman.   I think it is the former and they did not have a winning record in the finals.

LeBron is a great player but all too often he comes up a bit lacking or short when in the finals.  No one can say that about MJ.   I don't care for either one of them but I have lived long enough to see the league market guys as the greatest and anointing someone new in each generation.   But I know it for what is marketing.

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2018, 06:23:30 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Physically Jordan played in a much tougher era. Anyone denying his greatness needs to do some research.

Sorry, but I always laugh at this argument. Sure, in terms of physicality, the 90s, as an era, were tougher, overall, than the modern NBA, but not for Jordan or for any of the Bulls. You've got to remember, the league literally changed the rules for Michael, so it's not like you could ever hand check him after 1990, while on defense, he and Pippen could bump, hold, scratch, claw, and rip your arms off until the cows came home without ever being whistled for a foul ::). Just look at the 1991 NBA Finals and 1998 Eastern Conference Finals when Scottie was bumping and fouling Magic and Momma There Goes that Man ::), respectively, on literally every single trip up the court and was somehow never cited for an infraction ::). The whole thing was beyond ridiculous, imo.

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2018, 06:30:04 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Do we really need another thread of Moranis arguing with like 15 people about how great Lebron is? This topic couldn't be more dead and I have never seen anyone change their mind.
LOL, TP

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2018, 07:00:37 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I think if you dropped current Lebron into the 90s, heíd be better than MJ. Bigger, stronger, better shooter and passer.

But, Iím not sure thatís how the ďgreatest everĒ debate works.


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Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2018, 09:03:00 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Jordan played defense every possession...LBJ does not

Jordan was a better teammate and leader

Jordan is 6-0 on the biggest of stages.
Jordan playing defense every possession is the funniest thing I've read on here in a very long time. 

Jordan most certainly was not a better teammate and it is arguable that he was a better leader.  Different type of leader, but certainly arguable he was better.

Jordan also failed to reach the Finals 9 of his 15 seasons and got his 6 wins in the weakest (or 2nd weakest) decade of basketball the sport has ever seen.  I mean when he took his break, the Rockets won a title with Otis Thorpe as the 2nd best player on that team.  OTIS THORPE.

I like how you knock Jordan for missing the Finals 9 times and the 90ís being weak, but credit LeBron for making it out of the 10ís EAST. The East has been so notoriously weak since Jordan retired.

You can probably count on one hand how many runner-ups in the East were legit teams. I honestly think only the 2006-2008 Pistons were championship caliber. And considering the East has only won 6 of the last 20 Finals (including this one, itís over), itís safe to say the East is clearly inferior.

LeBron has without a doubt capitalized on a weak conference the last 8 years (but his 2007 appearance was undoubtedly impressive, but he got utterly embarrassed when he met the Spurs).

I do not buy that teams with stars like Barkley/KJ or Clyde or Ewing or Payton/Kemp or Stockton/Malone would not be good in this era, at all. The only win LeBron has thatís impressive compared to Jordanís competition is the 2016 win over GSW.

If LeBron played in the West, he probably wouldnít have made half the Finals he has. Jordan? He was 6-0 against the Westís best, so thatís not applicable to him. Who knows if the Bulls could have won a couple more had Jordan not retired twice following three-peats, but thatís a story for another day.
who were the great teams the Bulls beat in the East?  The Knicks, the Pacers, etc.  I mean come on.  Aside from the Lakers and Sonics, who were these great teams the Bulls played in the Finals.  The Jazz's 3rd best player was Bryon Russell and they started Greg Ostertag and Jeff Hornacek  those weren't great teams.  The Blazers are one of the worst finals teams ever.  The Suns were Barkley, KJ, and a bunch of crap (sorry Danny).   

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #52 on: June 07, 2018, 10:13:50 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I think it's going to be common to have weak conferences going forward with the push for super teams. If all of the best players want to play together, there will be a lot of bad teams. I don't think MJ or LJ's competition should be counted against them. They can only do what they do against the players in front of them.

The only thing that I can definitively say is that MJ won't be playing anymore basketball games. I'm not sure how to summarize Lebron's career at this point. I still think he will win more rings.

If you only care about rings, it's going to be hard to convince you that Lebron is better. Lebron's finals record will never match MJ's.

If you look at the two players side to side, I think the most glaring difference is that Lebron has the superior body.

MJ never faced a team like GS. I'm sure he would have picked up a couple L's.

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #53 on: June 07, 2018, 10:54:07 PM »

Offline chiken Green

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wow...

Pippin is a top 50 players yes,  But he could not lead a team to a chip the way Wade did..  MJ never played with anyone who led a team on his own to a championship...  LBJ has played with 1 and possibly 2 with Irving.

A Durant lead team would never mentally dominate a Jordan lead team..   Win or Lose,  never would MJ allow for Durant (or anyone) to come into his house and show out without him At least trying to guard him...   Game 3, Durant was giving The Cavs the business and LBJ was guarding Green..  MJ would have taken that crap personally and Went at him Man on Man... That is what made him the goat...

There is not one man in the world who could say they know what its like to get into the Ring with Jordan for all the marbles, and walk away with the marble bag.. No one, ever...

That is greatness.  All that other crap, one-legged jumpers, 40 point games and triple-doubles.. who cares..  what does it matter if you cant raise the banner...

and When the heck did We as Celtic fans start lowering the bar...   Jeeze.. 
 

 

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #54 on: June 07, 2018, 11:10:48 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I think if you dropped current Lebron into the 90s, heíd be better than MJ. Bigger, stronger, better shooter and passer.

But, Iím not sure thatís how the ďgreatest everĒ debate works.

The greatest ever debates are tough bc there's usually an apple up against an orange. Best SG vs best SF/Point Forward ever. They are different players with different roles. Jordan was a scorer. Lebron is more of a facilitator.

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #55 on: June 07, 2018, 11:14:32 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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wow...

Pippin is a top 50 players yes,  But he could not lead a team to a chip the way Wade did..  MJ never played with anyone who led a team on his own to a championship...  LBJ has played with 1 and possibly 2 with Irving.

A Durant lead team would never mentally dominate a Jordan lead team..   Win or Lose,  never would MJ allow for Durant (or anyone) to come into his house and show out without him At least trying to guard him...   Game 3, Durant was giving The Cavs the business and LBJ was guarding Green..  MJ would have taken that crap personally and Went at him Man on Man... That is what made him the goat...

There is not one man in the world who could say they know what its like to get into the Ring with Jordan for all the marbles, and walk away with the marble bag.. No one, ever...

That is greatness.  All that other crap, one-legged jumpers, 40 point games and triple-doubles.. who cares..  what does it matter if you cant raise the banner...

and When the heck did We as Celtic fans start lowering the bar...   Jeeze..

No.

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #56 on: June 07, 2018, 11:16:29 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Pippen is a top 50 players yes,  But he could not lead a team to a chip the way Wade did.. 

I disagree with this. Iíd take Pippen over Wade 100% of the time.


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Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #57 on: June 07, 2018, 11:17:15 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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wow...

Pippin is a top 50 players yes,  But he could not lead a team to a chip the way Wade did..  MJ never played with anyone who led a team on his own to a championship...  LBJ has played with 1 and possibly 2 with Irving.

A Durant lead team would never mentally dominate a Jordan lead team..   Win or Lose,  never would MJ allow for Durant (or anyone) to come into his house and show out without him At least trying to guard him...   Game 3, Durant was giving The Cavs the business and LBJ was guarding Green..  MJ would have taken that crap personally and Went at him Man on Man... That is what made him the goat...

There is not one man in the world who could say they know what its like to get into the Ring with Jordan for all the marbles, and walk away with the marble bag.. No one, ever...

That is greatness.  All that other crap, one-legged jumpers, 40 point games and triple-doubles.. who cares..  what does it matter if you cant raise the banner...

and When the heck did We as Celtic fans start lowering the bar...   Jeeze..

No.

I agree. I think there are about 10+ players over the last 20 years that are better than Pippen. He was good, but 50 is a stretch.

Also, GS is the best team ever assembled. They would beat MJ or anyone else.

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #58 on: June 07, 2018, 11:23:51 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Jordan played defense every possession...LBJ does not

Jordan was a better teammate and leader

Jordan is 6-0 on the biggest of stages.
Jordan playing defense every possession is the funniest thing I've read on here in a very long time. 

Jordan most certainly was not a better teammate and it is arguable that he was a better leader.  Different type of leader, but certainly arguable he was better.

Jordan also failed to reach the Finals 9 of his 15 seasons and got his 6 wins in the weakest (or 2nd weakest) decade of basketball the sport has ever seen.  I mean when he took his break, the Rockets won a title with Otis Thorpe as the 2nd best player on that team.  OTIS THORPE.

I like how you knock Jordan for missing the Finals 9 times and the 90ís being weak, but credit LeBron for making it out of the 10ís EAST. The East has been so notoriously weak since Jordan retired.

You can probably count on one hand how many runner-ups in the East were legit teams. I honestly think only the 2006-2008 Pistons were championship caliber. And considering the East has only won 6 of the last 20 Finals (including this one, itís over), itís safe to say the East is clearly inferior.

LeBron has without a doubt capitalized on a weak conference the last 8 years (but his 2007 appearance was undoubtedly impressive, but he got utterly embarrassed when he met the Spurs).

I do not buy that teams with stars like Barkley/KJ or Clyde or Ewing or Payton/Kemp or Stockton/Malone would not be good in this era, at all. The only win LeBron has thatís impressive compared to Jordanís competition is the 2016 win over GSW.

If LeBron played in the West, he probably wouldnít have made half the Finals he has. Jordan? He was 6-0 against the Westís best, so thatís not applicable to him. Who knows if the Bulls could have won a couple more had Jordan not retired twice following three-peats, but thatís a story for another day.
who were the great teams the Bulls beat in the East?  The Knicks, the Pacers, etc.  I mean come on.  Aside from the Lakers and Sonics, who were these great teams the Bulls played in the Finals.  The Jazz's 3rd best player was Bryon Russell and they started Greg Ostertag and Jeff Hornacek  those weren't great teams.  The Blazers are one of the worst finals teams ever.  The Suns were Barkley, KJ, and a bunch of crap (sorry Danny).

How do you figure? Still can't understand as to why they ever traded Petrovic, though, lol. Keep him and they might have at least won one title, but who knows?

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2018, 11:30:51 PM »

Offline gouki88

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wow...

Pippin is a top 50 players yes,  But he could not lead a team to a chip the way Wade did..  MJ never played with anyone who led a team on his own to a championship...  LBJ has played with 1 and possibly 2 with Irving.

A Durant lead team would never mentally dominate a Jordan lead team..   Win or Lose,  never would MJ allow for Durant (or anyone) to come into his house and show out without him At least trying to guard him...   Game 3, Durant was giving The Cavs the business and LBJ was guarding Green..  MJ would have taken that crap personally and Went at him Man on Man... That is what made him the goat...

There is not one man in the world who could say they know what its like to get into the Ring with Jordan for all the marbles, and walk away with the marble bag.. No one, ever...

That is greatness.  All that other crap, one-legged jumpers, 40 point games and triple-doubles.. who cares..  what does it matter if you cant raise the banner...

and When the heck did We as Celtic fans start lowering the bar...   Jeeze..

No.

I agree. I think there are about 10+ players over the last 20 years that are better than Pippen. He was good, but 50 is a stretch.

Also, GS is the best team ever assembled. They would beat MJ or anyone else.
Can you name them? Scottie Pippen's prime was pretty amazing.

Also, lol