Poll

Who is the GOAT?

MJ
28 (56%)
LJ
5 (10%)
other
17 (34%)

Total Members Voted: 50

Author Topic: MJ vs LJ  (Read 2308 times)

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Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2018, 08:07:59 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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FWIW, MJ would get swept by this Warriors team too.
Celtics without Kyrie and Gordon wouldn't get swept by Warriors.
Mike wouldn't too, maybe if he had the 86' team or something like that.
His 90ies teams, the unstopabulls? Not-a-chance.

No chance Jordan gets swept by the Warriors.

MJ. End of discussion.

No way MJ and Pippen get swept by the Warriors.

MJ and Kevin Love?  Probably.


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Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2018, 08:21:06 AM »

Offline Moranis

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FWIW, MJ would get swept by this Warriors team too.
Celtics without Kyrie and Gordon wouldn't get swept by Warriors.
Mike wouldn't too, maybe if he had the 86' team or something like that.
His 90ies teams, the unstopabulls? Not-a-chance.

No chance Jordan gets swept by the Warriors.

MJ. End of discussion.

No way MJ and Pippen get swept by the Warriors.

MJ and Kevin Love?  Probably.
Yep and on the flipside I'd fee pretty comfortable picking a James/Pippen led team to beat the Warriors given I think those 2 are far more capable of shutting down Durant than just about any other duo in history (even if you just swapped Pippen and Love, I wouldn't bet against the Cavs in that scenario - I mean they have played 3 very tight games in this series without someone like Pippen).

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2018, 08:43:11 AM »

Offline Big333223

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FWIW, MJ would get swept by this Warriors team too.
Celtics without Kyrie and Gordon wouldn't get swept by Warriors.
Mike wouldn't too, maybe if he had the 86' team or something like that.
His 90ies teams, the unstopabulls? Not-a-chance.

No chance Jordan gets swept by the Warriors.

MJ. End of discussion.

No way MJ and Pippen get swept by the Warriors.

MJ and Kevin Love?  Probably.
Yep and on the flipside I'd fee pretty comfortable picking a James/Pippen led team to beat the Warriors given I think those 2 are far more capable of shutting down Durant than just about any other duo in history (even if you just swapped Pippen and Love, I wouldn't bet against the Cavs in that scenario - I mean they have played 3 very tight games in this series without someone like Pippen).

It would've been a good match up. I tend to think the '96 Bulls would've struggled in today's game because they didn't have enough shooting but Jordan and Harper probably could've extended their range if they were playing today and Kukoc would've taken more. They would've been the perfect switch everything team to defend the Warriors. Start with Harper on Curry, Jordan on Klay, Pippen on Durant, Rodman on Draymond and you don't worry about a mismatch too much for anyone.
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Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2018, 08:48:32 AM »

Offline Green-18

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I've always been a strict defender of Jordan in this debate.  However, I feel the need to soften my stance against James after watching this playoff run.  LeBron has played at a GOAT level throughout the duration of the 2018 postseason.  It's difficult to imagine someone playing better with the same supporting case.  His stats don't feel as hollow as previous years where he failed to win the title.

THIS version of LeBron is equivalent to any player that I've ever seen.  He's been fearless, efficient, and clutch.  All of this while playing an insane number of minutes. 

Jordan is still the GOAT but LeBron has improved his legacy in my eyes.


Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2018, 08:51:26 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I've got a top 5: Russell, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Lebron. I think any of those 5 could be the GOAT. If I'm in a charitable mood, Kareem can make it a top 6 some days.

MJ is probably the GOAT but I think opening up the discussion is good. For too long, everyone has talked as though MJ's status is unimpeachable and no one is even close to his level. I don't think that's true.
swap out Lebron for Wilt and that would be my top 5 with Russell as GOAT.
Russell won in college and pros.  not just when the top players were out of the game like Jordan did (didn't win until Larry and Magic were at the tail end of their careers and still couldn't get by Detroit without a real "superstar" on their team for a few years) but throughout his entire NBA career when another top-5-of-all-time player was playing against him (Wilt). 

I'm definitely in the minority but as amazing as Jordan's career was, I'd take Russell, Bird, Magic and probably Wilt over Jordan if I had a chance to build a team with everyone in their primes.  Jordan was the ultimate "me" player (Wilt's right there though).  He got his but didn't really make his teammates better (other than being a decoy leaving them freer to do their thing).  The others made their teammates better.   Watch tapes of their games if you're able to -- you can't help but come away amazed at what they did game in and game out.

Lebron, top 10 player but he doesn't crack the top 5.  6, maybe 7.  depends on whether my Laker hate is particularly sharp that day and I drop Kareem from 6 to 7. 

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2018, 08:51:41 AM »

Offline Androslav

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FWIW, MJ would get swept by this Warriors team too.
Celtics without Kyrie and Gordon wouldn't get swept by Warriors.
Mike wouldn't too, maybe if he had the 86' team or something like that.
His 90ies teams, the unstopabulls? Not-a-chance.

No chance Jordan gets swept by the Warriors.

MJ. End of discussion.

No way MJ and Pippen get swept by the Warriors.

MJ and Kevin Love?  Probably.
Yep and on the flipside I'd fee pretty comfortable picking a James/Pippen led team to beat the Warriors given I think those 2 are far more capable of shutting down Durant than just about any other duo in history (even if you just swapped Pippen and Love, I wouldn't bet against the Cavs in that scenario - I mean they have played 3 very tight games in this series without someone like Pippen).

It would've been a good matchup. I tend to think the '96 Bulls would've struggled in today's game because they didn't have enough shooting but Jordan and Harper probably could've extended their range if they were playing today and Kukoc would've taken more. They would've been the perfect switch everything team to defend the Warriors. Start with Harper on Curry, Jordan on Klay, Pippen on Durant, Rodman on Draymond and you don't worry about a mismatch too much for anyone.
Anyone remember Pip on Mark Jackson?
I felt sorry for the guy. He was dribbling with his back to the basket 90 feet from the rim.
That's why Phil liked big guards and multiple ballhandlers.

However, I don't believe that comparing their teams, from different eras will help their individual, who is the better, debate. It creates sideways that lead away from the initial question.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2018, 08:54:00 AM »

Offline Androslav

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FWIW, MJ would get swept by this Warriors team too.
Celtics without Kyrie and Gordon wouldn't get swept by Warriors.
Mike wouldn't too, maybe if he had the 86' team or something like that.
His 90ies teams, the unstopabulls? Not-a-chance.

No chance Jordan gets swept by the Warriors.

MJ. End of discussion.

No way MJ and Pippen get swept by the Warriors.

MJ and Kevin Love?  Probably.
Yep and on the flipside I'd fee pretty comfortable picking a James/Pippen led team to beat the Warriors given I think those 2 are far more capable of shutting down Durant than just about any other duo in history (even if you just swapped Pippen and Love, I wouldn't bet against the Cavs in that scenario - I mean they have played 3 very tight games in this series without someone like Pippen).

My responce to the post from the last night:

I can agree with PP being a lesser player to LBJ and Durant. But from a different perspective:
How many rings does prime PP win in 4 years with the Heatles? 2? What about their year one Vs Dallas?
Does PP win one last year with the Warriors, acting as KD?

I'd argue that he wins the same number of chips. Fit/timing are huge variables, proven that PP was seen as a great only once the whole team became great.

Pierce, when in prime, could be a No1. option on a championship team and play good defense.

Moranis using my logic:
Imitation - the ultimate form of compliment!
Tnq, appreciate it.
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Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2018, 09:01:04 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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FWIW, MJ would get swept by this Warriors team too.
Celtics without Kyrie and Gordon wouldn't get swept by Warriors.
Mike wouldn't too, maybe if he had the 86' team or something like that.
His 90ies teams, the unstopabulls? Not-a-chance.

No chance Jordan gets swept by the Warriors.

MJ. End of discussion.

No way MJ and Pippen get swept by the Warriors.

MJ and Kevin Love?  Probably.
Yep and on the flipside I'd fee pretty comfortable picking a James/Pippen led team to beat the Warriors given I think those 2 are far more capable of shutting down Durant than just about any other duo in history (even if you just swapped Pippen and Love, I wouldn't bet against the Cavs in that scenario - I mean they have played 3 very tight games in this series without someone like Pippen).
LOL. They got blown out in game 2, and they're down 3-0 having lost by 12 points a game. They have not played "3 very tight games".
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Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2018, 09:34:14 AM »

Offline Moranis

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FWIW, MJ would get swept by this Warriors team too.
Celtics without Kyrie and Gordon wouldn't get swept by Warriors.
Mike wouldn't too, maybe if he had the 86' team or something like that.
His 90ies teams, the unstopabulls? Not-a-chance.

No chance Jordan gets swept by the Warriors.

MJ. End of discussion.

No way MJ and Pippen get swept by the Warriors.

MJ and Kevin Love?  Probably.
Yep and on the flipside I'd fee pretty comfortable picking a James/Pippen led team to beat the Warriors given I think those 2 are far more capable of shutting down Durant than just about any other duo in history (even if you just swapped Pippen and Love, I wouldn't bet against the Cavs in that scenario - I mean they have played 3 very tight games in this series without someone like Pippen).
LOL. They got blown out in game 2, and they're down 3-0 having lost by 12 points a game. They have not played "3 very tight games".
They were down by 7 in the 4th quarter of game 2.  Curry caught fire and they blew the doors off the game, but that was a close enough game for 3/4's of the game.  Game 1 was a 10 point game, but it was in OT and we all know how that one finished in regulation.  They were down a point with under 2 minutes left in the game last night.  All of those games were winnable in the 4th quarter, that makes them tight games. 

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2018, 09:42:52 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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Jordan played defense every possession...LBJ does not

Jordan was a better teammate and leader

Jordan is 6-0 on the biggest of stages.
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Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2018, 09:43:58 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
Jordan was a better teammate

That might be stretching it.


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Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2018, 09:46:42 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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FWIW, MJ would get swept by this Warriors team too.
Celtics without Kyrie and Gordon wouldn't get swept by Warriors.
Mike wouldn't too, maybe if he had the 86' team or something like that.
His 90ies teams, the unstopabulls? Not-a-chance.

No chance Jordan gets swept by the Warriors.

MJ. End of discussion.

No way MJ and Pippen get swept by the Warriors.

MJ and Kevin Love?  Probably.
Yep and on the flipside I'd fee pretty comfortable picking a James/Pippen led team to beat the Warriors given I think those 2 are far more capable of shutting down Durant than just about any other duo in history (even if you just swapped Pippen and Love, I wouldn't bet against the Cavs in that scenario - I mean they have played 3 very tight games in this series without someone like Pippen).
LOL. They got blown out in game 2, and they're down 3-0 having lost by 12 points a game. They have not played "3 very tight games".
They were down by 7 in the 4th quarter of game 2.  Curry caught fire and they blew the doors off the game, but that was a close enough game for 3/4's of the game.  Game 1 was a 10 point game, but it was in OT and we all know how that one finished in regulation.  They were down a point with under 2 minutes left in the game last night.  All of those games were winnable in the 4th quarter, that makes them tight games.
The whole game counts. You don't get to have your doors blown off in the fourth quarter and say it was a tight game. Celtics didn't lose a tight game 7 in ECF. Cavs sure as heck didn't in game 2.
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Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2018, 10:10:59 AM »

Offline Moranis

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FWIW, MJ would get swept by this Warriors team too.
Celtics without Kyrie and Gordon wouldn't get swept by Warriors.
Mike wouldn't too, maybe if he had the 86' team or something like that.
His 90ies teams, the unstopabulls? Not-a-chance.

No chance Jordan gets swept by the Warriors.

MJ. End of discussion.

No way MJ and Pippen get swept by the Warriors.

MJ and Kevin Love?  Probably.
Yep and on the flipside I'd fee pretty comfortable picking a James/Pippen led team to beat the Warriors given I think those 2 are far more capable of shutting down Durant than just about any other duo in history (even if you just swapped Pippen and Love, I wouldn't bet against the Cavs in that scenario - I mean they have played 3 very tight games in this series without someone like Pippen).
LOL. They got blown out in game 2, and they're down 3-0 having lost by 12 points a game. They have not played "3 very tight games".
They were down by 7 in the 4th quarter of game 2.  Curry caught fire and they blew the doors off the game, but that was a close enough game for 3/4's of the game.  Game 1 was a 10 point game, but it was in OT and we all know how that one finished in regulation.  They were down a point with under 2 minutes left in the game last night.  All of those games were winnable in the 4th quarter, that makes them tight games.
The whole game counts. You don't get to have your doors blown off in the fourth quarter and say it was a tight game. Celtics didn't lose a tight game 7 in ECF. Cavs sure as heck didn't in game 2.
Just have to disagree on that one.  When a game is winnable in the 4th quarter, I consider it a tight game.  If the Warriors were up by 15 the whole time, not a tight game, but that just wasn't the case.  It was a 5 point game at multiple times in the 3rd quarter and a 7 point game in the 4th quarter.  That game was there for Cleveland to take, they just keep running out of gas in all these games because they just don't have enough top end talent.

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2018, 10:14:52 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Jordan played defense every possession...LBJ does not

Jordan was a better teammate and leader

Jordan is 6-0 on the biggest of stages.
Jordan playing defense every possession is the funniest thing I've read on here in a very long time. 

Jordan most certainly was not a better teammate and it is arguable that he was a better leader.  Different type of leader, but certainly arguable he was better.

Jordan also failed to reach the Finals 9 of his 15 seasons and got his 6 wins in the weakest (or 2nd weakest) decade of basketball the sport has ever seen.  I mean when he took his break, the Rockets won a title with Otis Thorpe as the 2nd best player on that team.  OTIS THORPE. 

Re: MJ vs LJ
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2018, 10:24:11 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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FWIW, MJ would get swept by this Warriors team too.
Celtics without Kyrie and Gordon wouldn't get swept by Warriors.
Mike wouldn't too, maybe if he had the 86' team or something like that.
His 90ies teams, the unstopabulls? Not-a-chance.

No chance Jordan gets swept by the Warriors.

MJ. End of discussion.

No way MJ and Pippen get swept by the Warriors.

MJ and Kevin Love?  Probably.
Yep and on the flipside I'd fee pretty comfortable picking a James/Pippen led team to beat the Warriors given I think those 2 are far more capable of shutting down Durant than just about any other duo in history (even if you just swapped Pippen and Love, I wouldn't bet against the Cavs in that scenario - I mean they have played 3 very tight games in this series without someone like Pippen).
LOL. They got blown out in game 2, and they're down 3-0 having lost by 12 points a game. They have not played "3 very tight games".
They were down by 7 in the 4th quarter of game 2.  Curry caught fire and they blew the doors off the game, but that was a close enough game for 3/4's of the game.  Game 1 was a 10 point game, but it was in OT and we all know how that one finished in regulation.  They were down a point with under 2 minutes left in the game last night.  All of those games were winnable in the 4th quarter, that makes them tight games.
The whole game counts. You don't get to have your doors blown off in the fourth quarter and say it was a tight game. Celtics didn't lose a tight game 7 in ECF. Cavs sure as heck didn't in game 2.
Just have to disagree on that one.  When a game is winnable in the 4th quarter, I consider it a tight game.  If the Warriors were up by 15 the whole time, not a tight game, but that just wasn't the case.  It was a 5 point game at multiple times in the 3rd quarter and a 7 point game in the 4th quarter.  That game was there for Cleveland to take, they just keep running out of gas in all these games because they just don't have enough top end talent.
Wow! They were DOWN 5 in the 3rd freakin quarter. What a nail biter.  :o
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