Author Topic: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)  (Read 3331 times)

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Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« on: June 01, 2018, 03:26:15 PM »

Offline wiley

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One of the latest splits in the blog is whether to run it back just as is while adding Kyrie and Hayward, or to try and land a big man by trading up for one of Bamba, Carter Jr., Jackson, Bagley, without damaging next year's run.  The former group tends to worry about injuries and depth more....the latter group thinks we'll be fine if we don't have Rozier and that we can replace him in the draft, and the really confident crowd from the latter group thinks we'd also be okay trading Brown if we could land one of the big man studs in this draft.

I don't have a strong opinion, but I think I'm in the okay with using Rozier and picks if we can get one of those bigs (i don't know what picks that's for experts..).

In any case this thread is to determine your initial response to a trade going down in which we give up Rozier and picks to get one of Bamba, Carter Jr., Jackson or Bagley.  Remember, try to express your first reaction to the trade.  Here are the reaction parameters:

--Skeptical
--Warily hopeful
--Hopeful and excited but unsure
--We got a a guaranteed contributor but not excited
--We got a guaranteed contributor and content with that
--Hopeful and excited and confident about future
--We got a sure thing and probable star

Pick one of the reactions for each of the 4 bigs. 
Here are my reactions:

Bamba:     Hopeful and excited and confident about future
Carter Jr.:  We got a guaranteed contributor and content
Jackson:   Hopeful and Excited but unsure
Bagley:     Hopeful and excited and confident about future

Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2018, 03:30:57 PM »

Offline footey

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Rozier and picks doesn't get us nearly high enough to get any of those players, so this seems like an exercise in futility.

Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2018, 03:37:53 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Bamba:     Hopeful and excited and confident about future
Carter Jr.:  We got a guaranteed contributor and content
Jackson:   Hopeful and Excited but unsure
Bagley:     Hopeful and excited and confident about future

None of those Bigs are sure things and a lot of guys this draft have question marks.  With the new NBA one never knows how these guys will fit into the NBA game which is modern spread the floor, guard multiple positions.

Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2018, 05:04:05 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Rozier and picks doesn't get us nearly high enough to get any of those players, so this seems like an exercise in futility.

I agree. So are any of these bigs worth packaging Rozier and #27? Rozier, #27 and the Clippers pick and/or Memphis pick? Rozier, #27, and Marcus Morris?
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Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2018, 05:11:31 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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The Celtics don't have the assets, unless the organization trades away an integral piece of the team, as Rozier and the Sacramento pick is not enough to land a top big man prospect.

Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2018, 06:02:23 PM »

Offline Big333223

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The Celtics don't have the assets, unless the organization trades away an integral piece of the team, as Rozier and the Sacramento pick is not enough to land a top big man prospect.

I would say the Celtics have about as many assets as any team in the league.
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Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2018, 06:06:25 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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The Celtics don't have the assets, unless the organization trades away an integral piece of the team, as Rozier and the Sacramento pick is not enough to land a top big man prospect.

I would say the Celtics have about as many assets as any team in the league.

The key point to my very short post was 1) Rozier and the Sacramento pick is not enough for a top big man prospect in the draft, and 2) trading a better asset like Brown would hurt their chances of winning next season.

Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2018, 06:46:14 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Rozier and picks doesn't get us nearly high enough to get any of those players, so this seems like an exercise in futility.

I frankly disagree about Rozier.  Entering is his 4th year, he’s still cheap (will make less than any of those players next year).  The PG class this draft is incredibly weak.  Teams that need PGs include Orlando, Cleveland, Clippers, and the Knicks.  He’s clearly proven himself to be playoff starter quality.  At his age, there is likely more growth to come, and given his restricted free agency/extension eligibility, a team trading for him could easily control him for the next 5 years.

The Clippers have picks 12 & 13.  They seem to be a perfect fit in terms of need for Rozier.  They need a PG, are not looking to do an extended rebuild, and have cost considerations this upcoming season for which Rozier’s $3 million salary would be quite helpful.  They even have a trade exception that fits Rozier which expires at the end of June.  So getting to 12 doesn’t seem impossible — and considering George Hill was traded for #12 just two drafts ago while heading into unrestricted free agency (or Jeff Teague, depending how you want to view that trade), it doesn’t seem like my green-colored glasses are on.  And given that, someone like the Knicks trying to outbid the Clippers for Rozier is also not far-fetched, nor is combining #12 with #27 to move to #9.

The wildcards are two things, primarily.  Firstly, how far does a big that Ainge wants fall? (If the bigs in this post are all gone by #6, it could be too difficult indeed to get a Rozier-centered deal done). Secondly, how high does Trae Young go?  I think it will be difficult for a team looking for a PG to consider Rozier while Young is on the board (even if I’m personally not a Trae Young fan, I get the appeal).  So as long as he’s available, teams that might be interested in Rozier won’t move.  And these two are correlated — the later Young is picked, the more likely it is all the bigs are gone.

Maybe it’s not likely that a deal gets done, but it isn’t nearly as crazy as you seem to think.

And ultimately, if Ainge can’t use Rozier as the primary piece of a deal to break into the top 10 to get a big (or Doncic, but I need to stop dreaming) then he really should just hold onto Terry.  There’s enough uncertainty about our PGs heading into the summer that just moving him for a mid-first isn’t enough reward for the risk.

Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2018, 07:02:03 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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Bamba:     Skeptical
Carter Jr.:  Skeptical
Jackson:   Hopeful and excited but unsure
Bagley:     Hopeful and excited but unsure

Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2018, 07:27:28 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Having defended the exercise above, my ratings are:

Bagley: Skeptical
Bamba: Hopeful and excited but unsure
Carter: Hopeful and excited and confidant (I won’t be surprised if he’s the big in this draft with the best career.  That include Ayton.)
Jackson Jr.: Warily hopeful (emphasis on the warily).

Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2018, 07:46:17 PM »

Offline playdream

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Bamba is almost a sure thing, the wingspan and feet speed and will/attitude is there, only shooting left and he is working hard on it all year


Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2018, 08:09:38 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Drafting bigs over wings  almost always results in a failure

Doncic will end up being a significant player

Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2018, 08:11:11 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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I don't see anything close to a franchise talent in Doncic, but time will tell.

Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2018, 08:31:10 PM »

Offline playdream

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I don't see anything close to a franchise talent in Doncic, but time will tell.
I see him being the 2nd or 3rd of "big three", definitely not one

Re: Hope verses Sure Thing (about bigs)
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2018, 08:42:11 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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I see Bamba as a future Mutumbo type of player.  Elite rim protector but offensively I don't see much there.  Maybe he can be a double double type with almost 3 blocks per game?

Bagley is really difficult to peg.  The problem with Bagley is that although he is a very smooth scorer from 2 point land, he's not a proven 3 point shooter.  His other big drawback is that although his best position in the NBA is likely as a 5, Bagley is not a rim protector.  He's not going to block/alter a lot of shots, and he can't because his wingspan is below average for his size.

Jayson Tatum at 6'8 (maybe he is 6'9 by now) has a 7 foot wingspan. 
Bagley standing at 6'11 only has a 7 foot wingspan. 

The elite rim protectors in the NBA generally have 7'4 or longer wingspans.
Deandre Jordan 8'
Rudy Gobert 8'
Mo Bamba 7'10