Author Topic: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)  (Read 3984 times)

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Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #165 on: June 01, 2018, 05:24:44 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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MSNBC seems not the have the integrity that ABC does.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2018/06/01/msnbcs-joy-reid-apologizes-doctored-image-john-mccain-old-site/664204002/
Pretty disgusting stuff. She deserves to be fired.

I think there probably ought to be some room for cutting her a break for stuff she wrote in a blog over 10 years ago before she was even in her current job. 

I imagine a lot of current political commentators, especially those that came up during the era when blogging was really popular, wrote a lot of asinine stuff in blog posts before they were relevant enough for people to pay attention to what they were writing.  Maybe not outright offensive stuff in most cases, but posts they would be embarrassed to have looked at critically in the present.

Not making excuses for the content of Reid's posts, which sounds completely idiotic.  She should apologize, make clear she is embarrassed and regrets what she posted and now sees why it was misguided or offensive, and move on.


I admit I haven't paid much attention to the stories about all the stupid stuff she wrote, though, so maybe there is something in there so reprehensible that she ought not to have a job.

I do think it's a Pandora's box if we want to start saying that all people with a public platform should be held accountable for everything they've ever put on the Internet as if they meant it now.

Yeah, this is a bit different, some manufactured whataboutism. To argue that Joy Reid should be fired now for those posts is to also argue that Roseanne should never have been allowed back on TV again in the first place, mel gibson should never work again no matter what, etc.

Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #166 on: June 01, 2018, 05:54:12 PM »

Offline eja117

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MSNBC seems not the have the integrity that ABC does.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2018/06/01/msnbcs-joy-reid-apologizes-doctored-image-john-mccain-old-site/664204002/
Pretty disgusting stuff. She deserves to be fired.
She and Samantha Bee won't be fired. They have Left Privilege. And Joy has minority privilege. Sorta like when that woman made fun of Mitt Romney's adopted grandson and there were virtually no repercussions. People on the left have the privilege to apologize. People on the right have the privilege of being labeled and fired.

Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #167 on: June 01, 2018, 06:16:44 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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MSNBC seems not the have the integrity that ABC does.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2018/06/01/msnbcs-joy-reid-apologizes-doctored-image-john-mccain-old-site/664204002/
Pretty disgusting stuff. She deserves to be fired.

I think there probably ought to be some room for cutting her a break for stuff she wrote in a blog over 10 years ago before she was even in her current job. 

I imagine a lot of current political commentators, especially those that came up during the era when blogging was really popular, wrote a lot of asinine stuff in blog posts before they were relevant enough for people to pay attention to what they were writing.  Maybe not outright offensive stuff in most cases, but posts they would be embarrassed to have looked at critically in the present.

Not making excuses for the content of Reid's posts, which sounds completely idiotic.  She should apologize, make clear she is embarrassed and regrets what she posted and now sees why it was misguided or offensive, and move on.


I admit I haven't paid much attention to the stories about all the stupid stuff she wrote, though, so maybe there is something in there so reprehensible that she ought not to have a job.

I do think it's a Pandora's box if we want to start saying that all people with a public platform should be held accountable for everything they've ever put on the Internet as if they meant it now.

Yeah, this is a bit different, some manufactured whataboutism. To argue that Joy Reid should be fired now for those posts is to also argue that Roseanne should never have been allowed back on TV again in the first place, mel gibson should never work again no matter what, etc.

Maybe thatís a valid argument. Maybe there are so many talented people in entertainment that we shouldnít forgive and forget the bigots, especially the ones who let their hate shine through regularly.  Maybe doing so enables them.

Out of all the people named - Barr, Bee, Olbermann, Maher, Gibson, Reid, Griffin - are any of them owed a high-paying job in the entertainment industry? Are any so talented that the world would be worse off if they just left the business tomorrow? Gibson is the only one who I see as particularly talented (moreso as a director), and we all survived just fine when he was blacklisted.

Iím sick of defenses for abhorrent and hate-filled speech, whether it comes from celebrities, politicians, or whomever.  We should expect and demand better. Instead, as a society we laugh along with those who share our worldview, only condemning those with conflicting beliefs.


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Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #168 on: June 01, 2018, 06:16:57 PM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

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MSNBC seems not the have the integrity that ABC does.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2018/06/01/msnbcs-joy-reid-apologizes-doctored-image-john-mccain-old-site/664204002/
Pretty disgusting stuff. She deserves to be fired.
She and Samantha Bee won't be fired. They have Left Privilege. And Joy has minority privilege. Sorta like when that woman made fun of Mitt Romney's adopted grandson and there were virtually no repercussions. People on the left have the privilege to apologize. People on the right have the privilege of being labeled and fired.

Can you explain minority privilege? Does that involve actual power?

Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #169 on: June 01, 2018, 06:31:19 PM »

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I'm moving this to Current Events Political Forum

Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #170 on: June 01, 2018, 06:56:29 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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MSNBC seems not the have the integrity that ABC does.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2018/06/01/msnbcs-joy-reid-apologizes-doctored-image-john-mccain-old-site/664204002/
Pretty disgusting stuff. She deserves to be fired.

I think there probably ought to be some room for cutting her a break for stuff she wrote in a blog over 10 years ago before she was even in her current job. 

I imagine a lot of current political commentators, especially those that came up during the era when blogging was really popular, wrote a lot of asinine stuff in blog posts before they were relevant enough for people to pay attention to what they were writing.  Maybe not outright offensive stuff in most cases, but posts they would be embarrassed to have looked at critically in the present.

Not making excuses for the content of Reid's posts, which sounds completely idiotic.  She should apologize, make clear she is embarrassed and regrets what she posted and now sees why it was misguided or offensive, and move on.


I admit I haven't paid much attention to the stories about all the stupid stuff she wrote, though, so maybe there is something in there so reprehensible that she ought not to have a job.

I do think it's a Pandora's box if we want to start saying that all people with a public platform should be held accountable for everything they've ever put on the Internet as if they meant it now.

Yeah, this is a bit different, some manufactured whataboutism. To argue that Joy Reid should be fired now for those posts is to also argue that Roseanne should never have been allowed back on TV again in the first place, mel gibson should never work again no matter what, etc.

Maybe thatís a valid argument. Maybe there are so many talented people in entertainment that we shouldnít forgive and forget the bigots, especially the ones who let their hate shine through regularly.  Maybe doing so enables them.

Out of all the people named - Barr, Bee, Olbermann, Maher, Gibson, Reid, Griffin - are any of them owed a high-paying job in the entertainment industry? Are any so talented that the world would be worse off if they just left the business tomorrow? Gibson is the only one who I see as particularly talented (moreso as a director), and we all survived just fine when he was blacklisted.

Iím sick of defenses for abhorrent and hate-filled speech, whether it comes from celebrities, politicians, or whomever.  We should expect and demand better. Instead, as a society we laugh along with those who share our worldview, only condemning those with conflicting beliefs.

Im with you. I just want internal consistency. I agree there are plenty of ways to be entertained, i dont need weinstein, cosby, louis ck, etc, even if i liked their work before, just like bill oreilly, alex jones, bannon, trump, etc should never have been given a second of air time and never should again.

Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #171 on: June 01, 2018, 07:01:29 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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MSNBC seems not the have the integrity that ABC does.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2018/06/01/msnbcs-joy-reid-apologizes-doctored-image-john-mccain-old-site/664204002/
Pretty disgusting stuff. She deserves to be fired.
She and Samantha Bee won't be fired. They have Left Privilege. And Joy has minority privilege. Sorta like when that woman made fun of Mitt Romney's adopted grandson and there were virtually no repercussions. People on the left have the privilege to apologize. People on the right have the privilege of being labeled and fired.


There is so much to agree on in this thread, yet it becomes so easy to drift into language that is baiting language -- though I don't think Eja is sitting at his computer trying to bait.  Lots of agreement here that hate-filled crap is hate-filled crap no matter who says it.  It is true that there can be deeper implications depending upon who says what and who it is said to (or about).  If neo-nazi sympathizers echo nazi language and speak resentfully about Jews (generalizing to all), it carries different meaning than if I were to make a disparaging remark about Trump -- or an individual. History and target matters in terms of implications.  I am not sure what the right thing to do about Roseanne OR Joy Reid is.  I'd be OK if they got the same treatment and, if their transgressions are equivalent, they should get the same treatment. 

But... the "bait" is about using the term "minority-privilege".  I don't suspect there is any credible argument that African-American Women have enjoyed great advantages through the years in America (even in the context that perhaps today's African-American news anchor may be afforded some extra leeway).  In fact, Black women are probably among the most historically mistreated and exploited of all minority groups (sub-groups).  No need to argue this -- if there have been others equally mistreated, I'll believe you.   I understand that there are present-day protections within liberal media for minorities who have risen to prominent positions. But using the term "minority-privilege" feeds into a brewing resentment that doesn't need to be nurtured.   

Suffice it to say (I hope), that Joy Reid, like Roseanne Barr, should be held accountable for her actions.  If her bosses choose to ignore or minimize her past statements, that's on them as individuals -- not on "the Left" (btw, many liberals actually make reasonable decisions, believe it or not) -- and certainly is not reflective of the great privilege bestowed upon minority women in America.     

Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #172 on: June 01, 2018, 08:28:50 PM »

Offline TheisTheisBaby

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MSNBC seems not the have the integrity that ABC does.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2018/06/01/msnbcs-joy-reid-apologizes-doctored-image-john-mccain-old-site/664204002/
Pretty disgusting stuff. She deserves to be fired.
She and Samantha Bee won't be fired. They have Left Privilege. And Joy has minority privilege. Sorta like when that woman made fun of Mitt Romney's adopted grandson and there were virtually no repercussions. People on the left have the privilege to apologize. People on the right have the privilege of being labeled and fired.

Can you explain minority privilege? Does that involve actual power?

Do you really want an answer to this?  It'll set off a Powder Keg. 

Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #173 on: June 02, 2018, 12:06:50 PM »

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I don't think they should've cancelled the show. That is an overreaction to me.

Publicly reprimand her, yes. Fine her, yes. Cost her a lot of money, yes.

Cancel the show = fire large numbers of people involved in the making of the show who did nothing wrong & fans lose one of their favourite tv shows despite doing nothing wrong & cost the network money from losing a popular show = no. That is too much.

People don't need to go for the nuclear option every time someone says something offensive.

Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #174 on: June 04, 2018, 09:34:21 AM »

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I don't think they should've cancelled the show. That is an overreaction to me.

Publicly reprimand her, yes. Fine her, yes. Cost her a lot of money, yes.

Cancel the show = fire large numbers of people involved in the making of the show who did nothing wrong & fans lose one of their favourite tv shows despite doing nothing wrong & cost the network money from losing a popular show = no. That is too much.

People don't need to go for the nuclear option every time someone says something offensive.

The thing is, the cancellation of the show is to disassociate with her. It's not to punish her, which is fine, since punishing an adult for speech, even unfavorable speech, is bizarre though not uncommonly desired.

Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #175 on: June 04, 2018, 09:36:56 AM »

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Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #176 on: June 04, 2018, 02:13:23 PM »

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double standard maybe?

Those old Jimmy Kimmel Karl Malone bits are so cringe-worthy. Today that bit would never air.

But it's not a double standard is A) he was working for a different network, and B) it was about 15 years ago I'd bet.

I mention those two things because ABC was clearly aware of those bits when they hired him, it'd be something to fire him now.

But I bet some moron at Fox News is dredging up those pieces and saying, 'Oh what about these things!' like they found some mystical fossil that allows them to be credibly aggrieved over the Rosanne firing without actually addressing what she was fired for.

So anyways no, it's not a double standard. If Kimmel were to do that bit today, or even like half of the Man Show's recurring themes today, and even if Karl Malone came out and said, "I'm Karl Malone and I'm cool with this", Kimmel would still be fired.


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Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #177 on: June 04, 2018, 03:49:43 PM »

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double standard maybe?

Those old Jimmy Kimmel Karl Malone bits are so cringe-worthy. Today that bit would never air.

But it's not a double standard is A) he was working for a different network, and B) it was about 15 years ago I'd bet.

I mention those two things because ABC was clearly aware of those bits when they hired him, it'd be something to fire him now.

But I bet some moron at Fox News is dredging up those pieces and saying, 'Oh what about these things!' like they found some mystical fossil that allows them to be credibly aggrieved over the Rosanne firing without actually addressing what she was fired for.

So anyways no, it's not a double standard. If Kimmel were to do that bit today, or even like half of the Man Show's recurring themes today, and even if Karl Malone came out and said, "I'm Karl Malone and I'm cool with this", Kimmel would still be fired.

I think the expansion of Olbermans role on ESPN is more direct evidence of the double standard. 

Roseanne rightfully fired for a stupid racist joke

Olberman gets a bigger role after posting multiple tweets calling trump a bigot, racists, nazi among others in profanity laced tweets. 
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Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #178 on: June 04, 2018, 03:55:34 PM »

Offline Moranis

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double standard maybe?

Those old Jimmy Kimmel Karl Malone bits are so cringe-worthy. Today that bit would never air.

But it's not a double standard is A) he was working for a different network, and B) it was about 15 years ago I'd bet.

I mention those two things because ABC was clearly aware of those bits when they hired him, it'd be something to fire him now.

But I bet some moron at Fox News is dredging up those pieces and saying, 'Oh what about these things!' like they found some mystical fossil that allows them to be credibly aggrieved over the Rosanne firing without actually addressing what she was fired for.

So anyways no, it's not a double standard. If Kimmel were to do that bit today, or even like half of the Man Show's recurring themes today, and even if Karl Malone came out and said, "I'm Karl Malone and I'm cool with this", Kimmel would still be fired.

I think the expansion of Olbermans role on ESPN is more direct evidence of the double standard. 

Roseanne rightfully fired for a stupid racist joke

Olberman gets a bigger role after posting multiple tweets calling trump a bigot, racists, nazi among others in profanity laced tweets.
do you honestly not recognize the difference between calling the President a racist, bigot, or Nazi, and making a highly offensive racist tweet yourself?

Re: ABC cancels the #1 show on TV (Roseanne)
« Reply #179 on: June 04, 2018, 04:00:12 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wse5lgIDxM


double standard maybe?

Those old Jimmy Kimmel Karl Malone bits are so cringe-worthy. Today that bit would never air.

But it's not a double standard is A) he was working for a different network, and B) it was about 15 years ago I'd bet.

I mention those two things because ABC was clearly aware of those bits when they hired him, it'd be something to fire him now.

But I bet some moron at Fox News is dredging up those pieces and saying, 'Oh what about these things!' like they found some mystical fossil that allows them to be credibly aggrieved over the Rosanne firing without actually addressing what she was fired for.

So anyways no, it's not a double standard. If Kimmel were to do that bit today, or even like half of the Man Show's recurring themes today, and even if Karl Malone came out and said, "I'm Karl Malone and I'm cool with this", Kimmel would still be fired.

I think the expansion of Olbermans role on ESPN is more direct evidence of the double standard. 

Roseanne rightfully fired for a stupid racist joke

Olberman gets a bigger role after posting multiple tweets calling trump a bigot, racists, nazi among others in profanity laced tweets.
do you honestly not recognize the difference between calling the President a racist, bigot, or Nazi, and making a highly offensive racist tweet yourself?

I recognize the difference, I also think there is a stark difference between not disciplining an employee and actually expanding their role despite breaking the social media policy of the company.

If they just continued to let olberman do his thing I would agree with you but they are actively enhancing his platform
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