Poll

Resign?

Re-sign him at a price over $14 mill. He does a lot for the team
20 (14.6%)
Too much money. The Limited offense isn't worth this much
117 (85.4%)

Total Members Voted: 137

Author Topic: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]  (Read 46941 times)

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Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1095 on: July 19, 2018, 10:39:07 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.

Wow. I guess the NBA didn't see it or the Celtics didn't see it and you'd think they would have maybe investigated things when Marcus got hurt.


The Celtics investigated, but positive pot tests are kept secret in the NBA until you fail the third one.

Oh okay then I guess it's no big deal.


Except that he injured himself and was out for a few weeks.

Yeah and those few weeks Marcus missed 7 months ago are seriously going to affect how he plays during the next 4 years.

Glad after a half dozen replies of trying to slander Marcus and troll in general, you finally got your point across.


No slander, just facts.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1096 on: July 19, 2018, 10:45:17 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.

Wow. I guess the NBA didn't see it or the Celtics didn't see it and you'd think they would have maybe investigated things when Marcus got hurt.


The Celtics investigated, but positive pot tests are kept secret in the NBA until you fail the third one.

Oh okay then I guess it's no big deal.


Except that he injured himself and was out for a few weeks.

Yeah and those few weeks Marcus missed 7 months ago are seriously going to affect how he plays during the next 4 years.

Glad after a half dozen replies of trying to slander Marcus and troll in general, you finally got your point across.


No slander, just facts.

Tabloid "facts"

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1097 on: July 19, 2018, 10:49:29 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Wonder what offers Smart had to have had available that Ainge decided to pay Smart $13 mill per AAV? Hope Danny didn't bid against himself but if he thinks thats a fair contract then so be it.


He paid fair value to lock up Smart long term instead of losing him as an unrestricted FA next summer. Smart had no other reasonable offers this summer, but in next summer's market he would likely get significantly more than what we just gave him.

Smart is totally worth it, a unique player who is the backbone of our team.

See, I mostly disagree. With this current contract, we are talking about giving him the equivalent of a $46M/3yr contract next off-season (if he had taken the QO this summer). Unless Smart makes epic improvements in any form of shooting the ball,  I would be surprised to see him get a greater than $15M/yr contract in UFA.

As I said earlier, the Cs are clearly banking on major improvement from Smart - which I suppose is possible - but it isn't like he has the growth trajectory of a Brown/Tatum like player.

While you’ve got the numbers correct, I think your assessment of what Smart could get is off.  The last time we entered a summer with tons of teams having cap room to burn, we saw all sorts of role players like or inferior to Smart get contracts in the $16-20 million per year range for 3-4 years (Evan Turner, Ryan Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Timofey Mozgov, Luol Deng, Allen Crabbe, and so on).  The cap will be nearly 20% higher next year compared to two summers ago.  I personally think Smart’s low-end, barring injury or complete regression, was $15 million per year, and $20 million AAV wouldn’t have surprised me.  The combination of restricted free agency and limited teams with cap room really suppressed his value this summer, and the Celtics got a bargain.

Hopefully the forums will be around so we can revisit this topic next July when the role players get paid.

I disagree with your reasoning. It was widely accepted during the free agency period of 2016 that role-players were being given enormous contracts due to the projected cap increase of the next season and in subsequent seasons.  Unfortunately for the teams now hamstrung by contracts signed by the likes of Ryan Anderson, Evan Turner, and Timofey Mozgov the cap only went up the next season and then plateaued.   Any team that signed Smart to a similar contract would be equally boned.

If another team wanted to pay Smart 15-20 million to be a defensive role-player I say let them. I see no reason why he's worth more than his rookie contract when he hasn't developed at all as a player (sorry but there's absolutely no statistical evidence that points to his improvement).   

Yes.

Not to mention the fact that he injured himself punching out a picture frame, because his GF posted a video online of him smoking weed.

I don't recall seeing ANY picture of Marcus smoking weed. I think you are making that up. His GF was showing bag of weed but Marcus wasn't smoking it and he wasn't in the picture unless you have some other evidence.

http://terezowens.com/marcus-smart-got-put-on-blast-by-an-insta-thot/

https://boxden.com/showthread.php?t=2573655

I see what is said but I still see NO pictures of Marcus smoking weed or even being in weeds company. I am not trying to start an investigation here but it's hearsay and I see no evidence.

https://mtonews.com/mto-shocker-nba-star-marcus-smart-just-got-put-blast-insta-thot-says-aborted-child-ratchet-video

Anybody can write anything on any website but it doesn't make it true. Although she seems like a very credible witness  ??? ::) ::)


I saw a screen shot of it at the time.

You guys are so naive.

Wow. I guess the NBA didn't see it or the Celtics didn't see it and you'd think they would have maybe investigated things when Marcus got hurt.


The Celtics investigated, but positive pot tests are kept secret in the NBA until you fail the third one.

Oh okay then I guess it's no big deal.


Except that he injured himself and was out for a few weeks.

Yeah and those few weeks Marcus missed 7 months ago are seriously going to affect how he plays during the next 4 years.

Glad after a half dozen replies of trying to slander Marcus and troll in general, you finally got your point across.


No slander, just facts.

Tabloid "facts"


The first stage of grief is denial.



Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1098 on: July 19, 2018, 10:51:57 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1099 on: July 19, 2018, 11:10:15 PM »

Offline hodgy03038

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I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

I don't see any problem. Marcus is a winner and everything he does benefits his team and winning. Check the +/- for this guy. His percentages are irrelevant. Chris just seems to have a real problem with Marcus but when they signed him yesterday I was thrilled as MOST Celtics fans were.


Hey Jaylen. I lost 519 Tommy Points betting on you guys and lost

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1100 on: July 20, 2018, 01:21:38 AM »

Offline Chris22

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I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

I don't see any problem. Marcus is a winner and everything he does benefits his team and winning. Check the +/- for this guy. His percentages are irrelevant. Chris just seems to have a real problem with Marcus but when they signed him yesterday I was thrilled as MOST Celtics fans were.

You don't see a problem with a guard who shoots in the low 30s and gets $52 million?

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1101 on: July 20, 2018, 01:35:52 AM »

Offline colincb

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I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

I don't see any problem. Marcus is a winner and everything he does benefits his team and winning. Check the +/- for this guy. His percentages are irrelevant. Chris just seems to have a real problem with Marcus but when they signed him yesterday I was thrilled as MOST Celtics fans were.


His shooting and turnovers, both of which are really bad by NBA standards, don't benefit the team.
This is all about money laundering.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1102 on: July 20, 2018, 07:47:38 AM »

Offline hodgy03038

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I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

I don't see any problem. Marcus is a winner and everything he does benefits his team and winning. Check the +/- for this guy. His percentages are irrelevant. Chris just seems to have a real problem with Marcus but when they signed him yesterday I was thrilled as MOST Celtics fans were.

You don't see a problem with a guard who shoots in the low 30s and gets $52 million?

No I do not see a problem. He's worth every penny of the owners money. It doesn't come out of my pocket. He is a WINNER. Plus for those of you that don't like him - the salary helps if needed to be in a trade for say Anthony Davis or whoever but in the meantime I will go to battle with him over anyone in the same capacity.


Hey Jaylen. I lost 519 Tommy Points betting on you guys and lost

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1103 on: July 20, 2018, 08:03:16 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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If the deal is truly increasing over time, then that tells me that the team will do whatever it takes to get under the tax this year. If we were planning on paying the tax this year, we would be front loading the contract with 8% drops each year (to decrease our tax bill down the line, since the tax rate increases as you go further over the tax line). Increasing his salary every year means that we want low salary year 1,  and monetarily that makes the most sense if we're trying to avoid the tax.

Edit: Also, if the contract is exactly 4/52 with 8% raises, we can get ~$1 million under the tax line by trading Nader/Yabu/cash/2nds for no salary back (unfortunately, this leaves us about 300k short of resigning Bird to the minimum and staying under the cap)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 08:19:57 AM by BitterJim »
I'm bitter.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1104 on: July 20, 2018, 08:34:20 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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If the deal is truly increasing over time, then that tells me that the team will do whatever it takes to get under the tax this year. If we were planning on paying the tax this year, we would be front loading the contract with 8% drops each year (to decrease our tax bill down the line, since the tax rate increases as you go further over the tax line). Increasing his salary every year means that we want low salary year 1,  and monetarily that makes the most sense if we're trying to avoid the tax.

Edit: Also, if the contract is exactly 4/52 with 8% raises, we can get ~$1 million under the tax line by trading Nader/Yabu/cash/2nds for no salary back (unfortunately, this leaves us about 300k short of resigning Bird to the minimum and staying under the cap)

To me, this for sure means Morris is gone. I don't think we'll rush moving him but I can see a situation where he is packaged with Yab with a rookie scale contract coming back the other way. Somewhere like Denver makes some sense, maybe Portland is they accept the tax.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1105 on: July 20, 2018, 08:51:59 AM »

Offline cman88

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I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

I don't see any problem. Marcus is a winner and everything he does benefits his team and winning. Check the +/- for this guy. His percentages are irrelevant. Chris just seems to have a real problem with Marcus but when they signed him yesterday I was thrilled as MOST Celtics fans were.

You don't see a problem with a guard who shoots in the low 30s and gets $52 million?

for a team that isnt contending...sure...but danny is paying Marcus because he envisions us contending this year and in the future and you need to pay for a player like Marcus. Its like Golden state paying Draymond green/Iggy what they do...

Looking at dannys moves this year vs. last it is clear he and management believe we are ready

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1106 on: July 20, 2018, 08:56:11 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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If the deal is truly increasing over time, then that tells me that the team will do whatever it takes to get under the tax this year. If we were planning on paying the tax this year, we would be front loading the contract with 8% drops each year (to decrease our tax bill down the line, since the tax rate increases as you go further over the tax line). Increasing his salary every year means that we want low salary year 1,  and monetarily that makes the most sense if we're trying to avoid the tax.

Edit: Also, if the contract is exactly 4/52 with 8% raises, we can get ~$1 million under the tax line by trading Nader/Yabu/cash/2nds for no salary back (unfortunately, this leaves us about 300k short of resigning Bird to the minimum and staying under the cap)

To me, this for sure means Morris is gone. I don't think we'll rush moving him but I can see a situation where he is packaged with Yab with a rookie scale contract coming back the other way. Somewhere like Denver makes some sense, maybe Portland is they accept the tax.
Ainge has been famously quoted as saying we will pay the tax to be a contender, though he may have been referring to 2019-2020 season.  However, if there's a chance to get under the cap this year, I think he tries to do that to avoid repeater tax in 2019-2020, not specifically to get under the tax this season.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1107 on: July 20, 2018, 09:13:11 AM »

Offline Green-18

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I love Marcus, but I would never sign him to a long term deal at this price. He is way too limited offensively.

He shot 21% from the three point line in the Cleveland series for example.

Well you better pay attention to his hand.

Are we seriously concerned that that would somehow make a noticeable difference in terms of shooting percentages, lol? ::) ;D

Yes. he's in the low 30's with a healthy hand, 10% is huge difference.

Isn't that the problem, here, lol? ;D

I don't see any problem. Marcus is a winner and everything he does benefits his team and winning. Check the +/- for this guy. His percentages are irrelevant. Chris just seems to have a real problem with Marcus but when they signed him yesterday I was thrilled as MOST Celtics fans were.

You don't see a problem with a guard who shoots in the low 30s and gets $52 million?

for a team that isnt contending...sure...but danny is paying Marcus because he envisions us contending this year and in the future and you need to pay for a player like Marcus. Its like Golden state paying Draymond green/Iggy what they do...

Looking at dannys moves this year vs. last it is clear he and management believe we are ready

The poor shooting argument has become a lazy fallback argument for Smart haters.  Too many are unwilling to consider statistics that measure team success.

Here's what happens when you use shooting and turnover stats as the only criteria to evaluate a player.  Zach Lavine pre-injury is a PERFECT example.  In 2016-17 he averaged 19 PPG and had a .58 true shooting percentage to go along with only 1.8 TPG.  At face value I would assume that he's an excellent player.  The reality is that he had the worst net rating of every T-Wolves rotation player.  His net rating has been negative every season of his career.

Smart has posted a positive net rating EVERY season of his career.  This includes his rookie season where we didn't have IT until post All-Star break. 

It's amazing that the worst shooter in the NBA has managed to be a net positive regardless of his offensive shortcomings.  I keep trying to explain that his poor offense is the reason he didn't make Lavine or Jabari Parker money.  If Smart shot 35%+ from three then he would be the highest paid 3&D player in the league. 

Stats aside, there's also the fact that every single coach and teammate wants Marcus on their side in big games.  Remember the grin on Rozier's face when he knew that Marcus was coming back for game 5 against the Bucks?  Love him or hate him, Marcus is a major part of this teams identity.
 
 

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1108 on: July 20, 2018, 09:21:10 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I don't get the idea that because its a standard structure that the C's must intend to get under the tax this year. Smart and Happy may have not wanted a contract that declined in value for the same money.

Re: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]
« Reply #1109 on: July 20, 2018, 09:23:09 AM »

Offline saltlover

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If the deal is truly increasing over time, then that tells me that the team will do whatever it takes to get under the tax this year. If we were planning on paying the tax this year, we would be front loading the contract with 8% drops each year (to decrease our tax bill down the line, since the tax rate increases as you go further over the tax line). Increasing his salary every year means that we want low salary year 1,  and monetarily that makes the most sense if we're trying to avoid the tax.

Edit: Also, if the contract is exactly 4/52 with 8% raises, we can get ~$1 million under the tax line by trading Nader/Yabu/cash/2nds for no salary back (unfortunately, this leaves us about 300k short of resigning Bird to the minimum and staying under the cap)

To me, this for sure means Morris is gone. I don't think we'll rush moving him but I can see a situation where he is packaged with Yab with a rookie scale contract coming back the other way. Somewhere like Denver makes some sense, maybe Portland is they accept the tax.
Ainge has been famously quoted as saying we will pay the tax to be a contender, though he may have been referring to 2019-2020 season.  However, if there's a chance to get under the cap this year, I think he tries to do that to avoid repeater tax in 2019-2020, not specifically to get under the tax this season.

If the Celtics are in the luxury tax, the earliest they would be eligible for the repeater tax is 2021-2022.
“When an alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Leviticus 19:33-34