Poll

Resign?

Re-sign him at a price over $14 mill. He does a lot for the team
20 (14.6%)
Too much money. The Limited offense isn't worth this much
117 (85.4%)

Total Members Voted: 137

Author Topic: Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]  (Read 119999 times)

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Offline PickNRoll

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90% of the people here undersell how crippling it would be if he became a non-shooter.  You cannot play this space offense with non-shooters on the floor.  Taking and making 30% is FAR better than passing open looks or letting the defense ignore you.  He makes enough to keep defenses honest, and 24 seconds isn't enough to keep swinging the ball past the first open look.

Like I've said before, the difference between Smart shooting 30% and 36% at his current volume is 1 point per game.  Totally negligible next to the 5-8 extra possessions he generates.  He also plays a critical strategic role as 6th man -- after the first 6 minutes, Stevens gets to assess who has it and who doesn't, which matchups are bothering us etc., and he can literally insert Smart for any player on the court.  He's the ultimate fixer.

We'd be crazy to let him go.

Offline perks-a-beast

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you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.

Offline PickNRoll

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you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.

Offline RodyTur10

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you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.

One advantage is that the ending of the rookie contracts of Brown and Tatum correlates with the ending of the (max) contracts of Horford and Hayward.

In general paying role players big money (any contract over 8 million) is a recipe for disaster, but Smart is quite unique and crucial in what he brings to the team. Therefore I'd like to see a resigning under reasonable demands (8-12 range).

The growth which Rozier has shown makes him comparable on playing level to Smart, but it's much easier to replace the role of Rozier than Smart's. For a team like the Celtics you'd rather resign Smart than Rozier if the money is the same.

Another team with cap space most likely is a rebuilding team and in that situation I'd rather sign Rozier. In that case you hope that Rozier becomes an (above) average starter which is more likely for him than Smart.

Offline td450

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you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.


Offline Celtics4ever

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I heard that Sullinger was going to get big bucks here and it never happened.

Sullinger salary predictions here:

Quote
4/64 is Mozgov and 4/70 is Noah, right? I can't believe I'm saying this, but 4/72? 

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4/70 at least. I think the Nets are a good fit for him.

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78 million

Is a lot of Whopper

Quote
Quote
4 years 70 million lol

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Somebody will offer him four years, 60 million.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85948.0

Never happened.  There was a lot more but I am trying to illustrate that collectively the blog has no idea what a player will get and it is no different here.

Smart has flaws and they are going to cost him money in the off season.   He also has some big strengths.


Offline Fafnir

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I hear you on the Sullinger comparison, but do the same for Olynyk and Turner and it turns out a bit differently.  ;)

Plus Marcus tends to get hurt, but he isn't going to eat his way out of the league either.


Offline jambr380

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you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.

Offline PickNRoll

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you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.
Roster composition matters.   There are a bunch of teams in the league who would win more right now by adding Smart's versatility than Jaylen's scoring.

GSW, PHO, CHA, DAL, MIN, LAL, WAS, OKC... just off the top of my head.  I actually think it's true for atleast half of all teams.  And I'd take that trade any day.

Offline PickNRoll

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you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.
Expendable.  Smart is harder to replace.  There are only a few guys in the league who can do what he does.  There are ~25 Jaylen Browns.

Offline Monkhouse

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you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.
Expendable.  Smart is harder to replace.  There are only a few guys in the league who can do what he does.  There are ~25 Jaylen Browns.

Okay, like who?
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Offline Fafnir

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Offline Boris Badenov

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Here's a list of guards making $12-14 million this year:

JR Smith
Brandon Knight
Eric Gordon
Jeremy Lin
Kemba Walker

Now $10-12:

Austin Rivers
Courtney Lee
Jordan Clarkson
Dion Waiters
Alec Burks
Patty Mills
Terrence Ross
Iman Shumpert
Darren Collison
Danny Green

Now, $8-10

Tony Snell
Matt Dellavedova
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Andre Roberson
Jerryd Bayless
Avery Bradley
E'Twuan Moore
Vince Carter
Garrett Temple

Obviously these guys were signed at different times and are at different career stages, but which group does Smart seem to fit best with?



Offline PickNRoll

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you make an intriguing point, but I think we would be even crazier to sign him for anything more than $10 mill a year. Remember were going to have to pay Brown and Tatum big bucks eventually, and theres just not enough money to go around.
Brown is more expendable than Smart.  We have his Bird rights.  We can and should pay luxury tax to keep him because our window with Horford is now.  If that means you have to move Brown after next year, so be it.  If that means you sign Brown and Rozier and let Kyrie walk, so be it.  Tatum is non-negotiable, Celtic for life at all costs.
If you took two teams that were identical, and put Jaylen Brown on one and Marcus Smart on the other, the Jaylen team would win 80% of the games.

If you asked every single GM in the league whether they could have Marcus and a 10th pick in the draft or Jaylen, you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Marcus and the pick.

I literally had to re-read Pick's post to see if he meant 'expensive' rather than 'expendable' and nope. I totally agree with your assessment. GMs see Brown as a core talent that you build around; Smart is the type of player you put around the Browns of the world. There is really no comparison between the two other than they are both currently Celtics...and I actually like Smart and hope we can keep him for a reasonable price.
Expendable.  Smart is harder to replace.  There are only a few guys in the league who can do what he does.  There are ~25 Jaylen Browns.

Okay, like who?
Roughly everyone down to Trevor Ariza would be a move that involves tradeoffs, positive and negative.  Any of the top-tier guys are strictly better.

Offline PickNRoll

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Here's a list of guards making $12-14 million this year:

JR Smith
Brandon Knight
Eric Gordon
Jeremy Lin
Kemba Walker

Now $10-12:

Austin Rivers
Courtney Lee
Jordan Clarkson
Dion Waiters
Alec Burks
Patty Mills
Terrence Ross
Iman Shumpert
Darren Collison
Danny Green

Now, $8-10

Tony Snell
Matt Dellavedova
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Andre Roberson
Jerryd Bayless
Avery Bradley
E'Twuan Moore
Vince Carter
Garrett Temple

Obviously these guys were signed at different times and are at different career stages, but which group does Smart seem to fit best with?
I like him in the 10-12M camp.  So... adjusted for cap inflation, he's worth 14.