Author Topic: What’s up with “respectable” people lying about police misconduct lately?  (Read 993 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34931
  • Tommy Points: -27825
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
While the OP is right that some accusations are false, it would be wrong to be generally dismissive of all such accusations.

I agree. That’s why I support mandatory body cams and dash cams. They protect both the public and officers. 

I started the topic because of so many similar stories in the news at the same time, and because those lying aren’t those you “expect” to lie. It’s also striking how polite the officers were in these instances, only to have their reputations smeared.

It’s yet another example of why due process is important in all cases. The “believe victims” or “believe women” narratives are dangerous.  We should listen to victims, but proof is important.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Offline gouki88

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3373
  • Tommy Points: 31
Quote
While the OP is right that some accusations are false, it would be wrong to be generally dismissive of all such accusations.

I agree. That’s why I support mandatory body cams and dash cams. They protect both the public and officers. 

I started the topic because of so many similar stories in the news at the same time, and because those lying aren’t those you “expect” to lie. It’s also striking how polite the officers were in these instances, only to have their reputations smeared.

It’s yet another example of why due process is important in all cases. The “believe victims” or “believe women” narratives are dangerous.  We should listen to victims, but proof is important.
TP. The tendency to blindly believe x just because it’s popular is very dangerous

Offline Casperian

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3429
  • Tommy Points: 530
Body cams were always designed to protect potential victims from police violence, and cops from false accusations. The thing is, they can only help prove the latter, but rarely the former, which means using cases were the cops' innocence was proven as evidence that most cases of police violence prior to the introduction of body cams were a "hoax" is a logical fallacy.

Think about it: the cop knows he has a body cam, which is usually enough to prevent any potential misconduct, while the clown who falsely accuses him most likely doesn't. It should come as no surprise that this method of mutual protection mainly brings those cases to light where the cop was falsely accused. It simply can't prove the cases where the body cam did indeed, pro-actively, protect a potential victim from police violence.
In the 2017 off-season, I predicted the Celtics will not win the title for the next 10 years.

1 down, 9 to go.

Online fairweatherfan

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18253
  • Tommy Points: 1968
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Respectfully Roy - what country have you been living in the past 30 years ?

This is nothing new. Tawana Brawley, Michael Brown, the Chipman Street 5, Trayvon Martin, Stephon Clark, Duke Lacrosse, to name but a few liars.

When did Brown, Martin and Clark have the opportunity to lie?

Online 86MaxwellSmart

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2341
  • Tommy Points: 244
Quote
While the OP is right that some accusations are false, it would be wrong to be generally dismissive of all such accusations.

I agree. That’s why I support mandatory body cams and dash cams. They protect both the public and officers. 

I started the topic because of so many similar stories in the news at the same time, and because those lying aren’t those you “expect” to lie. It’s also striking how polite the officers were in these instances, only to have their reputations smeared.

It’s yet another example of why due process is important in all cases. The “believe victims” or “believe women” narratives are dangerous.  We should listen to victims, but proof is important.

Wait a minute Roy----You're talking common sense...People don't wanna hear it, in this era of Political "Correctness".  ;D
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Offline mqtcelticsfan

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1834
  • Tommy Points: 187
Quote
While the OP is right that some accusations are false, it would be wrong to be generally dismissive of all such accusations.

I agree. That’s why I support mandatory body cams and dash cams. They protect both the public and officers. 

I started the topic because of so many similar stories in the news at the same time, and because those lying aren’t those you “expect” to lie. It’s also striking how polite the officers were in these instances, only to have their reputations smeared.

It’s yet another example of why due process is important in all cases. The “believe victims” or “believe women” narratives are dangerous.  We should listen to victims, but proof is important.

Let me start by saying I understand your point. However, do you not agree that there are some major societal issues that have traditionally led to victims being ignored? I think there's a fine line between wanting proof and going back to where we were before the age of cell phones.

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34931
  • Tommy Points: -27825
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
While the OP is right that some accusations are false, it would be wrong to be generally dismissive of all such accusations.

I agree. That’s why I support mandatory body cams and dash cams. They protect both the public and officers. 

I started the topic because of so many similar stories in the news at the same time, and because those lying aren’t those you “expect” to lie. It’s also striking how polite the officers were in these instances, only to have their reputations smeared.

It’s yet another example of why due process is important in all cases. The “believe victims” or “believe women” narratives are dangerous.  We should listen to victims, but proof is important.

Let me start by saying I understand your point. However, do you not agree that there are some major societal issues that have traditionally led to victims being ignored? I think there's a fine line between wanting proof and going back to where we were before the age of cell phones.

Oh, definitely. There are power dynamics that have led to all kinds of people being steamrolled.  Due process should apply to all parties; everyone should have a fair chance to be heard.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Offline tenn_smoothie

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1631
  • Tommy Points: 176
Respectfully Roy - what country have you been living in the past 30 years ?

This is nothing new. Tawana Brawley, Michael Brown, the Chipman Street 5, Trayvon Martin, Stephon Clark, Duke Lacrosse, to name but a few liars.

Don’t forget Ashley Todd: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-mccain-worker-made-up-attack-story/

And Susan Smith: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith

And Charles Stuart: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Stuart_(murderer)

Or the Central Park 5.

I suppose next you’re going to tell me the two young men who were arrested for being in Starbucks while black aren’t  real?

Why are you making this about race ?
Apparently you, like so many unfortunately, have a complete obsession with race.

Yes, Zimmerman has some screws loose - but he did not lie about the Trayvon Martin incident. He was, in fact, attacked.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 10:41:23 PM by tenn_smoothie »
The Four Celtic Generals:
Russell - Cowens - Bird - Garnett

Offline tenn_smoothie

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1631
  • Tommy Points: 176
Respectfully Roy - what country have you been living in the past 30 years ?

This is nothing new. Tawana Brawley, Michael Brown, the Chipman Street 5, Trayvon Martin, Stephon Clark, Duke Lacrosse, to name but a few liars.

When did Brown, Martin and Clark have the opportunity to lie?

Half of the country lied on their behalf
The Four Celtic Generals:
Russell - Cowens - Bird - Garnett

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 41651
  • Tommy Points: 2340
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
Respectfully Roy - what country have you been living in the past 30 years ?

This is nothing new. Tawana Brawley, Michael Brown, the Chipman Street 5, Trayvon Martin, Stephon Clark, Duke Lacrosse, to name but a few liars.

When did Brown, Martin and Clark have the opportunity to lie?

Half of the country lied on their behalf

...right. So they're liars because after their death you feel their stories were misrepresented by other people. Other people who were not them.


"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3928
  • Tommy Points: 319
Body Cams are good after the fact but also good as a deterrent both for unnecessary use of force by law enforcement and false accusations directed at law enforcement.  Classic win-win.

There are always going to be false accusations and there should absolutely be a due process available to any law enforcement person who gets involved in something like this.  Body Cams would seem to make these open and shut in most cases.

What still bothers me about our current law enforcement culture is that there is a circle the wagons approach even when it is pretty clear that someone is in the wrong on the use of force.  That needs to stop.  Law enforcement is a revered profession but they also should be held to a higher standard.

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34931
  • Tommy Points: -27825
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Another bodycam issue, although not necessarily a clear-cut one:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/31320/heres-bodycam-footage-what-led-viral-video-cop-james-barrett

Personally, I think the punches to the head were excessive.  The girl was rude and entitled, and she clearly refused to submit, but is there a better way to subdue somebody than hitting them in the head?  I would hope so. 

But, at the same time the woman clearly isn't going to submit, she's kicking, etc.  I just think I'd prefer that she be tazed than punched.





Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...