Is there any (non-literal) precedent to what Tatum + Brown are doing?

[LarBrd33]

FWIW, phenoms usually reach superstar level before the age of 23.  So it's not totally crazy to see guys performing at a high level at age 20/21. 

LeBron was already averaging 27 points, 7.2 assists, 7.4 rebounds, 2.2 steals with 47%/35%/75% shooting as a 20 year old 2nd year player.

Durant was already up to 25 points, 6.5 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.3 steals with 48%/42%/86% shooting his second year at age 20.  Up to 30ppg the year after.

Anthony Davis was already up to 24.4 points, 10.2 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 2.9 blocks and 1.5 steals at age 21. 

Karl Towns was up to 25.1 points, 12.3 rebounds, 2.7 assists at age 21.

Kyrie was already averaging 22.5 points, 6 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 1.5 steals with 45%/39%/86% shooting at age 20.

Kobe took a while to get going out of high school.  His first two seasons weren't great, but he came in at age 18.  By age 21, he was up to 22.5ppg.  By age 22 he was upt o 28.5ppg.

Tim Duncan was a phenom right out of the gate as a 21 year old rookie.

Shaq was dominant as a 20 year old rookie.

On and on...

So yeah, there seems to be some misconception that you draft a budding young star they will develop slowly over the course of many years and peak at age 26/27.  That's really not the case.  Sure there are rare exceptions like Jimmy Butler, but generally if you're drafting a phenom like Tatum, there is probably going to be a major leap between year 1 and 2, but all of his main development should happen before the age of 23.   He'll pick up stuff as he gets older, but if the guy is going to be a 28ppg player, it's going to happen rapidly in the next couple years.

So in that sense, it's not all that shocking to see two guys picked in the Top 3 performing at a high level.  Having extremely high draft picks is essential.   Obviously, this Celtic team is special for a number of reasons.  Hard to say there is any precedence for what Boston is accomplishing when it's kind of unheard of to have a team threaten for the Finals without their two best players.  But you shouldn't be too surprised if Brown and Tatum are playing at all-star levels by next season (especially Tatum who is a superior prospect with a higher ceiling). 

[Donoghus]

Russell & Heinsohn played vital roles on the '57 title team as rookies.

Who is going for 37 points / 23 rebounds in Game 7 of the Finals this year?

Yabu

[smokeablount]

FWIW, phenoms usually reach superstar level before the age of 23.  So it's not totally crazy to see guys performing at a high level at age 20/21. 

LeBron was already averaging 27 points, 7.2 assists, 7.4 rebounds, 2.2 steals with 47%/35%/75% shooting as a 20 year old 2nd year player.

Durant was already up to 25 points, 6.5 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.3 steals with 48%/42%/86% shooting his second year at age 20.  Up to 30ppg the year after.

Anthony Davis was already up to 24.4 points, 10.2 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 2.9 blocks and 1.5 steals at age 21. 

Karl Towns was up to 25.1 points, 12.3 rebounds, 2.7 assists at age 21.

Kyrie was already averaging 22.5 points, 6 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 1.5 steals with 45%/39%/86% shooting at age 20.

Kobe took a while to get going out of high school.  His first two seasons weren't great, but he came in at age 18.  By age 21, he was up to 22.5ppg.  By age 22 he was upt o 28.5ppg.

Tim Duncan was a phenom right out of the gate as a 21 year old rookie.

Shaq was dominant as a 20 year old rookie.

On and on...

So yeah, there seems to be some misconception that you draft a budding young star they will develop slowly over the course of many years and peak at age 26/27.  That's really not the case.  Sure there are rare exceptions like Jimmy Butler, but generally if you're drafting a phenom like Tatum, there is probably going to be a major leap between year 1 and 2, but all of his main development should happen before the age of 23.   He'll pick up stuff as he gets older, but if the guy is going to be a 28ppg player, it's going to happen rapidly in the next couple years.

So in that sense, it's not all that shocking to see two guys picked in the Top 3 performing at a high level.  Having extremely high draft picks is essential.   Obviously, this Celtic team is special for a number of reasons.  Hard to say there is any precedence for what Boston is accomplishing when it's kind of unheard of to have a team threaten for the Finals without their two best players.  But you shouldn't be too surprised if Brown and Tatum are playing at all-star levels by next season (especially Tatum who is a superior prospect with a higher ceiling).

Right, but I’m talking about having at least 2 19-21 year old stars on one team, like some of the examples mentioned.

[nickagneta]

FWIW, phenoms usually reach superstar level before the age of 23.  So it's not totally crazy to see guys performing at a high level at age 20/21. 

LeBron was already averaging 27 points, 7.2 assists, 7.4 rebounds, 2.2 steals with 47%/35%/75% shooting as a 20 year old 2nd year player.

Durant was already up to 25 points, 6.5 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.3 steals with 48%/42%/86% shooting his second year at age 20.  Up to 30ppg the year after.

Anthony Davis was already up to 24.4 points, 10.2 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 2.9 blocks and 1.5 steals at age 21. 

Karl Towns was up to 25.1 points, 12.3 rebounds, 2.7 assists at age 21.

Kyrie was already averaging 22.5 points, 6 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 1.5 steals with 45%/39%/86% shooting at age 20.

Kobe took a while to get going out of high school.  His first two seasons weren't great, but he came in at age 18.  By age 21, he was up to 22.5ppg.  By age 22 he was upt o 28.5ppg.

Tim Duncan was a phenom right out of the gate as a 21 year old rookie.

Shaq was dominant as a 20 year old rookie.

On and on...

So yeah, there seems to be some misconception that you draft a budding young star they will develop slowly over the course of many years and peak at age 26/27.  That's really not the case.  Sure there are rare exceptions like Jimmy Butler, but generally if you're drafting a phenom like Tatum, there is probably going to be a major leap between year 1 and 2, but all of his main development should happen before the age of 23.   He'll pick up stuff as he gets older, but if the guy is going to be a 28ppg player, it's going to happen rapidly in the next couple years.

So in that sense, it's not all that shocking to see two guys picked in the Top 3 performing at a high level.  Having extremely high draft picks is essential.   Obviously, this Celtic team is special for a number of reasons.  Hard to say there is any precedence for what Boston is accomplishing when it's kind of unheard of to have a team threaten for the Finals without their two best players.  But you shouldn't be too surprised if Brown and Tatum are playing at all-star levels by next season (especially Tatum who is a superior prospect with a higher ceiling).

Right, but I’m talking about having at least 2 19-21 year old stars on one team, like some of the examples mentioned.

Tatum is now 20. Just thought I would correct that

[liam]

Russell & Heinsohn played vital roles on the '57 title team as rookies.

Who is going for 37 points / 23 rebounds in Game 7 of the Finals this year?

Yabu

Release The Bear!

[td450]

One thing I've felt was a little odd is the gushing over Tatum as a future superstar, while Brown is generally discussed as "and he looks like he'll be good too".

My take is that they have extremely complementary playing styles, and that we can't tell yet who will become the better player. At minimum, they will both be regular all-stars within a year or two. They could very well become bookend all-NBA players.

Tatum is ahead by some distance in terms of technical offensive skills, but if you set aside the 5 game stretch where he was slowed by a hamstring pull, Jaylen has been equally impressive as an offensive player in the playoffs, and is improving just as fast. He seems to be making up for the skills difference with elite athleticism and aggression, and it is somehow working.

I'm sure part of it is that Tatum is a rookie and Brown is a 2nd year guy. But Brown is proving he is a very quick study too, and will probably greatly improve his footwork, and add tricks to neutralize and set up defenders over the next couple of years. Tatum already has those skills. Brown's big advantage is that he is one of the most explosive athletes in the league and has all the traits you need to take advantage.

Don't be surprised if he ends up the alpha dog on this team instead of Tatum

[Tr1boy]

Yes. Tim Duncan

[celticsclay]

The 2010-11 Thunder made the WCF.  Westbrook and Durant were both 22 (RW in year 3, KD in year 4).  Harden and Ibaka were both 21 and in their 2nd year.  Those were the Thunder's 4 leading scorers (both in the playoffs and in the regular season after Jeff Green was traded).  The following season, the Thunder made the Finals (obviously all were a year older).

3rd and 4th year is pretty different (and probably a lot more common) than first and second year. I mean the rookie is starting and leading the team in scoring. Anything closer than this?