Is futility behind Lebrons physical collapse

[Fafnir]

The biggest thing for me about last night's game is he didn't look physically capable of giving top tier effort on the defensive end. I thought that was the biggest change to Cleveland's approach at home was how LBJ was engaged and active defensively.

We saw this in the Pacers series some and it makes sense its somewhat worse this series as its 9 games later and against an even better/deeper defensive team.

Whatever team he is on next should commit to playing him in the low 30s in minutes, I really think that'd help him similar to how it helped KG maximize his impact when on the court.

[wdleehi]

Let's just remember that the game where people are claiming James failed physically he scored 26 points, shooting 50% from the field, grabbed 10 rebounds, and dished out 5 assists.  He did have 6 turnovers and he played over 39 minutes.  I'll take that sort of physical failure all of the time from my players. 

The Cavs problems have been and continue to be that Ty Lue is a downright awful coach.  He has no understanding of rotations, play calling, etc.  He is just awful.  I mean this a guy who said Kyle Korver didn't play more minutes because Semi Ojeleye was removed from Boston's rotation.  Here is the exact quote "Well, initially, he's been putting Ojeleye in," Lue said of Stevens after the game Wednesday. "So that's been kind of Kyle's matchup when he comes in the game. He didn't play him tonight, so it kind of threw us for a loop."  Semi Ojeleye not playing threw the Cavs for a loop and led to Korver playing only like 18 minutes.  That sums up the Cavs problems and is all anyone really needs to know.

An exhausted Lebron is still better then 99% of the NBA. 


But an exhausted Lebron may not be good enough to carry this Cavs team over the top in this series.   

[Fafnir]

I told you these old guys would start to get noodle legs. Games every other day and travel will not effect our young guys. I think we can catch them sleeping in game 6 and play more relaxed. I would push the pace early and keep it close. Lue isn't playing any of his young guys and his vets are gassed.

Why Calderon gets no minutes is beyond me. You get Behind Korver is the frist Guy you put in.

Because he cannot defend or make plays with the ball anymore off the bounce.

Korver is a much more solid defender in small lineups than Calderon and works better off the ball instead of as a stationary spot guy exclusively.

[hayhayc]

Never like LBJ but appreciate he is hell of a player.

I think the MVP chase to prove a point for being in the league for 15 years and preforming at high level LBJ end up costing him now in the playoff games.

Imagine able to get pass us, how much energy there is left from him to face either of the team from the west....

[hpantazo]

I told you these old guys would start to get noodle legs. Games every other day and travel will not effect our young guys. I think we can catch them sleeping in game 6 and play more relaxed. I would push the pace early and keep it close. Lue isn't playing any of his young guys and his vets are gassed.

He should have played his younger guys earlier in the playoffs, and at least earlier in this series. Its too late now for them to save the energy of their older starters. Hopefully we run them out of the building tomorrow.

[seancally]

I think that gap between games 2 and 3 really benefited Cleveland. If there were 4 days off between every game in the playoffs, I think Cleveland would look a heck of a lot better - moreso than other teams would.

It's also worth noting that this is the first season (recently, at least) where Lebron played all 82 games - didn't take 2 weeks off and go to Miami or have all his blood replaced in Germany or something.

[Vermont Green]

Lue said of Stevens after the game Wednesday. "So that's been kind of Kyle's matchup when he comes in the game. He didn't play him tonight, so it kind of threw us for a loop."  Semi Ojeleye not playing threw the Cavs for a loop and led to Korver playing only like 18 minutes.  That sums up the Cavs problems and is all anyone really needs to know.

Korver averaged 22 min per game in games 1-4, including starting in game 1.  I am not sure 3 more minutes of Korver changes the outcome (box score gave him 19 min) but that is a very strange thing for a coach to say after a game.  Keep in mind though that Lue is not the coach, LeBron is.  I think we have a coaching edge for sure but in the games that we have won, CLE has just plain played bad.  This is not as simple as one coach vs. the other coach.

I did not pick up on Semi/Korver match up but I think what Lue is saying is that he was using Semi to cover for Korver's lack of defense or that it was part of how Korver was getting open.  Seems reasonable and I bet if Korver had played more in place of Smith, that Brown would have had more points.  Lot's of variables in play.  Let's see which Cavs team shows up on Friday.

[Moranis]

Lue said of Stevens after the game Wednesday. "So that's been kind of Kyle's matchup when he comes in the game. He didn't play him tonight, so it kind of threw us for a loop."  Semi Ojeleye not playing threw the Cavs for a loop and led to Korver playing only like 18 minutes.  That sums up the Cavs problems and is all anyone really needs to know.

Korver averaged 22 min per game in games 1-4, including starting in game 1.  I am not sure 3 more minutes of Korver changes the outcome (box score gave him 19 min) but that is a very strange thing for a coach to say after a game.  Keep in mind though that Lue is not the coach, LeBron is.  I think we have a coaching edge for sure but in the games that we have won, CLE has just plain played bad.  This is not as simple as one coach vs. the other coach.

I did not pick up on Semi/Korver match up but I think what Lue is saying is that he was using Semi to cover for Korver's lack of defense or that it was part of how Korver was getting open.  Seems reasonable and I bet if Korver had played more in place of Smith, that Brown would have had more points.  Lot's of variables in play.  Let's see which Cavs team shows up on Friday.

JR Smith is horrible.  He wouldn't even be in the rotation for any other team.  He provides nothing except the rare game that he seemingly hits everything.  Rodney Hood should be starting.  He is a decent shooter, but he is a pretty solid ball handler that can actually get to the hole.  He has size.  It seems like people forgot that Hood was an 18 ppg scorer for the Jazz this year.  He knows how to play and his more versatile offensive game is sorely needed next to Lebron.  Seriously, Lue is just so bad.  A halfway decent coach and the Cavs wouldn't have struggled with Indiana and probably would have closed this series out already. 

[Fafnir]

I mean the Jazz also got a LOT good minutes out of Crowder, something Lue LBJ and the Cavs could not. Are we really surprised that Hood also can't adjust to playing on this team as well?

FWIW Hood sulked his way out of Utah when the Jazz handed the keys to Mitchel and not him and sucked in their playoff run last year. I think when Utah hits the eject button on a player it says something about them.

[Fafnir]

Lue said of Stevens after the game Wednesday. "So that's been kind of Kyle's matchup when he comes in the game. He didn't play him tonight, so it kind of threw us for a loop."  Semi Ojeleye not playing threw the Cavs for a loop and led to Korver playing only like 18 minutes.  That sums up the Cavs problems and is all anyone really needs to know.

Korver averaged 22 min per game in games 1-4, including starting in game 1.  I am not sure 3 more minutes of Korver changes the outcome (box score gave him 19 min) but that is a very strange thing for a coach to say after a game.  Keep in mind though that Lue is not the coach, LeBron is.  I think we have a coaching edge for sure but in the games that we have won, CLE has just plain played bad.  This is not as simple as one coach vs. the other coach.

I think what Lue meant in the end is that he views Korver as a 4 they play when they go small with Love at the 5. Because the Celtics largely stayed pretty big it messed up their plan to match up small with Korver/Love.

Love played zero minutes at C in game 5, that's probably as big a reason as any Korver's minutes were more limited that expected. That's definitely bad coaching/rotation management. When you  are struggling to score I think Korver has to be on the court more.

[nickagneta]

Let's just remember that the game where people are claiming James failed physically he scored 26 points, shooting 50% from the field, grabbed 10 rebounds, and dished out 5 assists.  He did have 6 turnovers and he played over 39 minutes.  I'll take that sort of physical failure all of the time from my players. 

The Cavs problems have been and continue to be that Ty Lue is a downright awful coach.  He has no understanding of rotations, play calling, etc.  He is just awful.  I mean this a guy who said Kyle Korver didn't play more minutes because Semi Ojeleye was removed from Boston's rotation.  Here is the exact quote "Well, initially, he's been putting Ojeleye in," Lue said of Stevens after the game Wednesday. "So that's been kind of Kyle's matchup when he comes in the game. He didn't play him tonight, so it kind of threw us for a loop."  Semi Ojeleye not playing threw the Cavs for a loop and led to Korver playing only like 18 minutes.  That sums up the Cavs problems and is all anyone really needs to know.

I don't think anyone is laying blame at Lebron's feet for the loss last night. Tyronne Lue and Lebron's supporting cast really let Lebron down.

But...Lebron was tired from almost the beginning of the gamed and looked completely gassed many times in the 2nd half. Lebron was constantly not getting back on defense after a miss or turnover, spending time haggling with the refs. He didn't constantly go inside to force the Cs into fouls. He was looking more to pass than score for almost the entire first half. In the 2nd half his jumpers and turnarounds were short and his layups rolled out. Heck, he didn't even try a run down block on Tatum which is his signature defensive move.

Thats being tired, being exhausted. And when he was sitting he looked out of it as he wiped himself down and chugged fluids. His body language was awful. I am not sure I have ever seen Lebron putting his hand on his hips while trying to catch his breath but that happened last night.

I give Lebron all the credit in the world for posting the numbers he did but last night he was just too tired to make his teammates better or to carry this bad supporting cast on his shoulders

[Neurotic Guy]

LBJ played more minutes than anyone during the regular season, and is leading the league again in the playoffs. This is on top of a heavy year-over-year burden. He's been in the finals 7 straight years, and he hasn't missed much due to injury. I'd be shocked if anybody has played more basketball than he has over the last seven years. It's got to catch up to you. Incredible he decided not to rest up toward the end of the year.

I'm kind of hoping the Lakers mortgage their future to get James and PG13, and it's not enough because LeBron has lost a step and, well, PG13 isn't his old self anymore either. If LeBron wants to chase a title, he almost has to go to Houston.

He doesn't look like he's lost a step -- just a little tired.  Still looks like the co-GOAT to me.   If he's on a team that can afford playing him 32 MPG next year, my guess is he'll still be MVP level and will have gas in the tank for the playoffs.


 

[moiso]

LBJ played more minutes than anyone during the regular season, and is leading the league again in the playoffs. This is on top of a heavy year-over-year burden. He's been in the finals 7 straight years, and he hasn't missed much due to injury. I'd be shocked if anybody has played more basketball than he has over the last seven years. It's got to catch up to you. Incredible he decided not to rest up toward the end of the year.

I'm kind of hoping the Lakers mortgage their future to get James and PG13, and it's not enough because LeBron has lost a step and, well, PG13 isn't his old self anymore either. If LeBron wants to chase a title, he almost has to go to Houston.

He doesn't look like he's lost a step -- just a little tired.  Still looks like the co-GOAT to me.   If he's on a team that can afford playing him 32 MPG next year, my guess is he'll still be MVP level and will have gas in the tank for the playoffs.

Exactly.  He's better than ever.  And it's not just the minutes- it's that he is everything to that team.  He doesn't have a Wade or anyone else to share the load.  He's their freaking point guard for god's sake.

[keevsnick]

LBJ played more minutes than anyone during the regular season, and is leading the league again in the playoffs. This is on top of a heavy year-over-year burden. He's been in the finals 7 straight years, and he hasn't missed much due to injury. I'd be shocked if anybody has played more basketball than he has over the last seven years. It's got to catch up to you. Incredible he decided not to rest up toward the end of the year.

I'm kind of hoping the Lakers mortgage their future to get James and PG13, and it's not enough because LeBron has lost a step and, well, PG13 isn't his old self anymore either. If LeBron wants to chase a title, he almost has to go to Houston.

He doesn't look like he's lost a step -- just a little tired.  Still looks like the co-GOAT to me.   If he's on a team that can afford playing him 32 MPG next year, my guess is he'll still be MVP level and will have gas in the tank for the playoffs.

Exactly.  He's better than ever.  And it's not just the minutes- it's that he is everything to that team.  He doesn't have a Wade or anyone else to share the load.  He's their freaking point guard for god's sake.

I don't think its so much the cumulative minutes as it is the energy he has to exert in any given game. He no long has Irving to throw it too every other possession, he has to create their offense every time down the floor. He can't do it all the time, nobody can. Its the same reason why great offensive players are rarely great defensive players, it takes energy to be the focal point.

[celticsclay]

Let's just remember that the game where people are claiming James failed physically he scored 26 points, shooting 50% from the field, grabbed 10 rebounds, and dished out 5 assists.  He did have 6 turnovers and he played over 39 minutes.  I'll take that sort of physical failure all of the time from my players. 

The Cavs problems have been and continue to be that Ty Lue is a downright awful coach.  He has no understanding of rotations, play calling, etc.  He is just awful.  I mean this a guy who said Kyle Korver didn't play more minutes because Semi Ojeleye was removed from Boston's rotation.  Here is the exact quote "Well, initially, he's been putting Ojeleye in," Lue said of Stevens after the game Wednesday. "So that's been kind of Kyle's matchup when he comes in the game. He didn't play him tonight, so it kind of threw us for a loop."  Semi Ojeleye not playing threw the Cavs for a loop and led to Korver playing only like 18 minutes.  That sums up the Cavs problems and is all anyone really needs to know.

I don't think anyone is laying blame at Lebron's feet for the loss last night. Tyronne Lue and Lebron's supporting cast really let Lebron down.

But...Lebron was tired from almost the beginning of the gamed and looked completely gassed many times in the 2nd half. Lebron was constantly not getting back on defense after a miss or turnover, spending time haggling with the refs. He didn't constantly go inside to force the Cs into fouls. He was looking more to pass than score for almost the entire first half. In the 2nd half his jumpers and turnarounds were short and his layups rolled out. Heck, he didn't even try a run down block on Tatum which is his signature defensive move.

Thats being tired, being exhausted. And when he was sitting he looked out of it as he wiped himself down and chugged fluids. His body language was awful. I am not sure I have ever seen Lebron putting his hand on his hips while trying to catch his breath but that happened last night.

I give Lebron all the credit in the world for posting the numbers he did but last night he was just too tired to make his teammates better or to carry this bad supporting cast on his shoulders

Nick I agree with all of this. Sometimes there is more than the counting stats. Lebron looked exhausted unlike I had ever seen him before and there were a few plays where he just stood there to tired to move while we got the offensive rebound. Also when Cleveland was trying to make a run he was deferring to Jordan clarkson repeatedly cause he was too tired to drive.