Author Topic: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police  (Read 5236 times)

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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #180 on: May 25, 2018, 03:47:30 PM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

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And to be clear, yes, the biggest issue here is the totally unacceptable conduct by the police. I'd fire every last one of them, I don't want cops like that in my town.

But Brown does not deserve to be given a free pass here. The manner in which he acted throughout the entire incident needs to be made clear it was unacceptable. Giving people the impression you are entitled to act in that manner only will lead to more people thinking it's acceptable to act unlawfully simply because the police cannot act in a proper manner.

Absolutely. 

I think absolving either side here is kinda ridiculous.  It's pretty apparent (at least to me) that both sides screwed up here.
Yup, they did. Agree completely

Yeah, but it all comes down to "know your audience." You can really tell a lot about someone just by what profession that they've chosen.

How many cops have you met that are actually in it to serve the people? At the end of the day, they get their kicks out of being above the law. So the next time you interact with one of these people, outsmart them by not falling for it. They're looking for a reason to bust out their shiny new taser or scream at you because your car is nicer than theirs. If you think that "firing all of these and hiring new ones" is going to solve anything, you're dead wrong. Most normal, friendly people don't want to be shot at. The people who APPLY to these jobs fit the profile that we all hate. Do yourself a favor and limit your contact with them by not breaking the law and if you do break the law, wrap it up as fast as possible.

"Sorry officer, I was in a rush and it's late so I figured the slots would be unneeded. I tried to get in and out as fast as possible." Just a handful of intelligence and he goes home instead of getting tased.
Rather difficult to avoid those people as my sister, my sister-in-law, and 2 cousins are law enforcement officers. And none of them are anything like the people you describe. Through them I have met a lot of other officers. Again not like the people you described.

Now, I am not saying those people don't exist, but painting all police with that wide brush is just wrong. There's tons of police officers that are good people. My guess is most are.

Your experience with law enforcement is different than mine, starting at 10 years old when a cop detained me in front of my house because he confused a nerf gun with a real gun. I suspect that more people share my view than yours. We could take a poll if you'd like. The amount of cops who have been rude to me for very little to no cause far outweighs the completely professional public servants.

Roy, you've had 100s of encounters with cops? I'm referring solely to a detainment situation. The stereotypes are there for a reason: people believe it to be true.

Iím a defense attorney. Watching - and exaggerating -  police behavior is what we do.

Stereotypes are dangerous. They take the bad actions of a few and spread them to everybody.

Its dangerous if you use it the wrong way. It's intelligent if you use it as a starting data point. Why completely dismiss statistics? Also I would argue that if it's only a few, it wouldn't be a stereotype.

This makes no sense. So you only use stereotypes the "right way"? What the difference between using stereotypes the right way vs the wrong way? Can you elaborate further? What are the statistics you're alluding to?

Using a stereotype the wrong way: A cop shoots and kills an 8 year old black child holding a toy gun because he heard Fox News talking about Chicago or some other nonsense and assumed the child was a violent criminal

Using a stereotype the right way: Seeing an elderly person on the subway and giving up your seat, assuming that their joints ache and their muscles are weak and that they would prefer to sit.

The first one isn't a stereotype it's just a ridiculous example  that doesn't make much sense. So an officer shoots a little kid because of a Fox report and assumes he's a violent criminal. The other is called manners. No different than holding a door open for someone walking behind you.

Are you telling me that there are no stereotypes in this country against blacks painting them as more violent than other races? If you deny this, you're simply being dishonest.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #181 on: May 25, 2018, 03:54:01 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I tend to focus on stereotypes (probably the wrong word for it) that have some sort of statistical backing. Where you're going with this are unfounded stereotypes based on biased observation (I would note that you have stereotyped cops as good people based on a small sample size). I generally discard those unless I am the one who has personally observed the behavior and it is detrimental to my health (cops are a fantastic example). I choose to not throw away statistical evidence.

What statistical backing? You keep using this term, but don't have the data to support it. In 2008, there was about 1.1 million police officers across the nation. Say that number has risen to 1.5 million over the last 10 years to account for population growth, what is the statistical evidence that you keep harping on?

Here's some actual data:

In 2017, there were 987 people shot by police, 236 of which mental illness played a factor. 223 black people where shot by police (which accounts for 23%).

Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police. In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer.

Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, though they are only 6 percent of the population. That 18.5 ratio undoubtedly worsened in 2016, in light of the 53 percent increase in gun murders of officers ó committed vastly and disproportionately by black males.

According to the FBIís uniform crime-reporting data for 2016, 90.1 percent of black victims of homicide were killed by other blacks.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #182 on: May 25, 2018, 03:57:10 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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And to be clear, yes, the biggest issue here is the totally unacceptable conduct by the police. I'd fire every last one of them, I don't want cops like that in my town.

But Brown does not deserve to be given a free pass here. The manner in which he acted throughout the entire incident needs to be made clear it was unacceptable. Giving people the impression you are entitled to act in that manner only will lead to more people thinking it's acceptable to act unlawfully simply because the police cannot act in a proper manner.

Absolutely. 

I think absolving either side here is kinda ridiculous.  It's pretty apparent (at least to me) that both sides screwed up here.
Yup, they did. Agree completely

Yeah, but it all comes down to "know your audience." You can really tell a lot about someone just by what profession that they've chosen.

How many cops have you met that are actually in it to serve the people? At the end of the day, they get their kicks out of being above the law. So the next time you interact with one of these people, outsmart them by not falling for it. They're looking for a reason to bust out their shiny new taser or scream at you because your car is nicer than theirs. If you think that "firing all of these and hiring new ones" is going to solve anything, you're dead wrong. Most normal, friendly people don't want to be shot at. The people who APPLY to these jobs fit the profile that we all hate. Do yourself a favor and limit your contact with them by not breaking the law and if you do break the law, wrap it up as fast as possible.

"Sorry officer, I was in a rush and it's late so I figured the slots would be unneeded. I tried to get in and out as fast as possible." Just a handful of intelligence and he goes home instead of getting tased.
Rather difficult to avoid those people as my sister, my sister-in-law, and 2 cousins are law enforcement officers. And none of them are anything like the people you describe. Through them I have met a lot of other officers. Again not like the people you described.

Now, I am not saying those people don't exist, but painting all police with that wide brush is just wrong. There's tons of police officers that are good people. My guess is most are.

Your experience with law enforcement is different than mine, starting at 10 years old when a cop detained me in front of my house because he confused a nerf gun with a real gun. I suspect that more people share my view than yours. We could take a poll if you'd like. The amount of cops who have been rude to me for very little to no cause far outweighs the completely professional public servants.

Roy, you've had 100s of encounters with cops? I'm referring solely to a detainment situation. The stereotypes are there for a reason: people believe it to be true.

Iím a defense attorney. Watching - and exaggerating -  police behavior is what we do.

Stereotypes are dangerous. They take the bad actions of a few and spread them to everybody.

Its dangerous if you use it the wrong way. It's intelligent if you use it as a starting data point. Why completely dismiss statistics? Also I would argue that if it's only a few, it wouldn't be a stereotype.

This makes no sense. So you only use stereotypes the "right way"? What the difference between using stereotypes the right way vs the wrong way? Can you elaborate further? What are the statistics you're alluding to?

Using a stereotype the wrong way: A cop shoots and kills an 8 year old black child holding a toy gun because he heard Fox News talking about Chicago or some other nonsense and assumed the child was a violent criminal

Using a stereotype the right way: Seeing an elderly person on the subway and giving up your seat, assuming that their joints ache and their muscles are weak and that they would prefer to sit.

The first one isn't a stereotype it's just a ridiculous example  that doesn't make much sense. So an officer shoots a little kid because of a Fox report and assumes he's a violent criminal. The other is called manners. No different than holding a door open for someone walking behind you.

Are you telling me that there are no stereotypes in this country against blacks painting them as more violent than other races? If you deny this, you're simply being dishonest.

There undoubtedly are. However, does that make it a good thing? Erik seems to be implying that his stereotypes against police officers are sound in logic because he's had a few bad experiences, so he's grouping all cops under that misguided umbrella.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #183 on: May 25, 2018, 04:17:40 PM »

Offline Erik

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There undoubtedly are. However, does that make it a good thing? Erik seems to be implying that his stereotypes against police officers are sound in logic because he's had a few bad experiences, so he's grouping all cops under that misguided umbrella.

I don't exactly understand what your problem is. I'm saying that it is data point #1. Based on my bad experiences and what I see on some of these body cam videos, when a cop approaches me, I put my guard up and act differently than I would with the old lady on the train because one of them can and will shoot me if I do or say something that they perceive as threatening. Now, suppose the first thing that they tell me is "Just wanted to say that I like your shirt... I'm also a Celtics fan," well now I have data point #2 and my guard will drop and I'm sure we'll have a great time talking about the ECF. How is this confusing to you at all? It's just how I like to live my life as an intelligent being. Why waste any of my life experience?

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #184 on: May 25, 2018, 04:21:31 PM »

Offline Moranis

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There undoubtedly are. However, does that make it a good thing? Erik seems to be implying that his stereotypes against police officers are sound in logic because he's had a few bad experiences, so he's grouping all cops under that misguided umbrella.

I don't exactly understand what your problem is. I'm saying that it is data point #1. Based on my bad experiences and what I see on some of these body cam videos, when a cop approaches me, I put my guard up and act differently than I would with the old lady on the train because one of them can and will shoot me if I do or say something that they perceive as threatening. Now, suppose the first thing that they tell me is "Just wanted to say that I like your shirt... I'm also a Celtics fan," well now I have data point #2 and my guard will drop and I'm sure we'll have a great time talking about the ECF. How is this confusing to you at all? It's just how I like to live my life as an intelligent being. Why waste any of my life experience?
And acting differently could very well lead to one of those situations like the one in this thread.  Cops are generally perceptive and notice body language changes, thus putting them on guard, and thus creating a far more tense situation then otherwise might have been necessary all because your first assumption is the police officer is out to get you. 

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #185 on: May 25, 2018, 04:25:23 PM »

Offline Erik

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There undoubtedly are. However, does that make it a good thing? Erik seems to be implying that his stereotypes against police officers are sound in logic because he's had a few bad experiences, so he's grouping all cops under that misguided umbrella.

I don't exactly understand what your problem is. I'm saying that it is data point #1. Based on my bad experiences and what I see on some of these body cam videos, when a cop approaches me, I put my guard up and act differently than I would with the old lady on the train because one of them can and will shoot me if I do or say something that they perceive as threatening. Now, suppose the first thing that they tell me is "Just wanted to say that I like your shirt... I'm also a Celtics fan," well now I have data point #2 and my guard will drop and I'm sure we'll have a great time talking about the ECF. How is this confusing to you at all? It's just how I like to live my life as an intelligent being. Why waste any of my life experience?
And acting differently could very well lead to one of those situations like the one in this thread.  Cops are generally perceptive and notice body language changes, thus putting them on guard, and thus creating a far more tense situation then otherwise might have been necessary all because your first assumption is the police officer is out to get you.

Actually, it won't. I'm going to use my intelligence to not escalate the situation. I'm not going to be nervous and shaking. I'm going to figure out what this person wants and give it to him. What Brown incorrectly did was act as if this is a regular guy that is bothering him. He misread the situation. He basically gave him the "leave me alone" routine you'd do if some random person started questioning you. He needed to understand that his data point #1 was confirmed in data point #2 and fully comply.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #186 on: May 25, 2018, 04:27:44 PM »

Offline Moranis

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There undoubtedly are. However, does that make it a good thing? Erik seems to be implying that his stereotypes against police officers are sound in logic because he's had a few bad experiences, so he's grouping all cops under that misguided umbrella.

I don't exactly understand what your problem is. I'm saying that it is data point #1. Based on my bad experiences and what I see on some of these body cam videos, when a cop approaches me, I put my guard up and act differently than I would with the old lady on the train because one of them can and will shoot me if I do or say something that they perceive as threatening. Now, suppose the first thing that they tell me is "Just wanted to say that I like your shirt... I'm also a Celtics fan," well now I have data point #2 and my guard will drop and I'm sure we'll have a great time talking about the ECF. How is this confusing to you at all? It's just how I like to live my life as an intelligent being. Why waste any of my life experience?
And acting differently could very well lead to one of those situations like the one in this thread.  Cops are generally perceptive and notice body language changes, thus putting them on guard, and thus creating a far more tense situation then otherwise might have been necessary all because your first assumption is the police officer is out to get you.

Actually, it won't. I'm going to use my intelligence to not escalate the situation. What Brown incorrectly did was act as if this is a regular guy that is bothering him. He misread the situation. He basically gave him the "leave me alone" routine you'd do if some random person started questioning you. He needed to understand that his data point #1 was confirmed in data point #2 and fully comply.
But having the assumption that the police officer is out to get you and will shoot you, unnecessarily raises the tension level to begin with.  That should never cross your mind, especially when you park like a jackass in the middle of the night.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #187 on: May 25, 2018, 04:33:54 PM »

Offline Erik

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There undoubtedly are. However, does that make it a good thing? Erik seems to be implying that his stereotypes against police officers are sound in logic because he's had a few bad experiences, so he's grouping all cops under that misguided umbrella.

I don't exactly understand what your problem is. I'm saying that it is data point #1. Based on my bad experiences and what I see on some of these body cam videos, when a cop approaches me, I put my guard up and act differently than I would with the old lady on the train because one of them can and will shoot me if I do or say something that they perceive as threatening. Now, suppose the first thing that they tell me is "Just wanted to say that I like your shirt... I'm also a Celtics fan," well now I have data point #2 and my guard will drop and I'm sure we'll have a great time talking about the ECF. How is this confusing to you at all? It's just how I like to live my life as an intelligent being. Why waste any of my life experience?
And acting differently could very well lead to one of those situations like the one in this thread.  Cops are generally perceptive and notice body language changes, thus putting them on guard, and thus creating a far more tense situation then otherwise might have been necessary all because your first assumption is the police officer is out to get you.

Actually, it won't. I'm going to use my intelligence to not escalate the situation. What Brown incorrectly did was act as if this is a regular guy that is bothering him. He misread the situation. He basically gave him the "leave me alone" routine you'd do if some random person started questioning you. He needed to understand that his data point #1 was confirmed in data point #2 and fully comply.
But having the assumption that the police officer is out to get you and will shoot you, unnecessarily raises the tension level to begin with.  That should never cross your mind, especially when you park like a jackass in the middle of the night.

That should never cross your mind? :D We live in two different worlds, man.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #188 on: May 25, 2018, 04:49:56 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Actually, it won't. I'm going to use my intelligence to not escalate the situation. I'm not going to be nervous and shaking. I'm going to figure out what this person wants and give it to him. What Brown incorrectly did was act as if this is a regular guy that is bothering him. He misread the situation. He basically gave him the "leave me alone" routine you'd do if some random person started questioning you. He needed to understand that his data point #1 was confirmed in data point #2 and fully comply.
I'm sorry, but that shouldn't even be in the book on how to interact with a law enforcement officer. How someone may ever think it's a reasonable "read" of the situation is unfathomable to me.
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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #189 on: May 25, 2018, 05:16:04 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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There undoubtedly are. However, does that make it a good thing? Erik seems to be implying that his stereotypes against police officers are sound in logic because he's had a few bad experiences, so he's grouping all cops under that misguided umbrella.

I don't exactly understand what your problem is. I'm saying that it is data point #1. Based on my bad experiences and what I see on some of these body cam videos, when a cop approaches me, I put my guard up and act differently than I would with the old lady on the train because one of them can and will shoot me if I do or say something that they perceive as threatening. Now, suppose the first thing that they tell me is "Just wanted to say that I like your shirt... I'm also a Celtics fan," well now I have data point #2 and my guard will drop and I'm sure we'll have a great time talking about the ECF. How is this confusing to you at all? It's just how I like to live my life as an intelligent being. Why waste any of my life experience?

During your experiences were you arrested and/or cited? If so, then I could understand why you have these preconceived notions since those situations are clearly unpleasant. Or have you had a situation where an officer responded to your home when you were victimized and took the time to hear you out, fill out a report, and be sympathetic to your mishap? Clearly both situations are different in nature and an officer will usually have a different approach when you're committing a crime and/or a traffic infraction than he would if you were being victimized.

Trying to bring up the body cam videos to validate your point is also pretty poor. There are literally thousands of daily police interactions and with it thousands of body cam videos, but you're basing this on few extreme examples, which is probably about .00001% of police encounters.

That would be akin to saying I put my guard up when a black person approaches me because one time a black person broke into my vehicle and I've seen a lot of video online in which they're armed and committing robberies. That's seriously what you're insinuating whether you realize it or not.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 05:26:05 PM by Eddie20 »

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #190 on: May 25, 2018, 06:32:31 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I was taught to respect the police, and say yes sir and yes ma'am.   Make no sudden movements, follow their directives, and some of this is clearly because cops are on edge.  It is not an easy job.  Doesn't every parent tells their kids this stuff?   I told it to mine as well. 

Quote
In 2017, there were 987 people shot by police, 236 of which mental illness played a factor. 223 black people where shot by police (which accounts for 23%).

Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police. In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer.

Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, though they are only 6 percent of the population. That 18.5 ratio undoubtedly worsened in 2016, in light of the 53 percent increase in gun murders of officers ó committed vastly and disproportionately by black males.

According to the FBIís uniform crime-reporting data for 2016, 90.1 percent of black victims of homicide were killed by other blacks.

Thanks for the stats, very interesting.  These incidents are just unfortunate, there is fear on both sides that escalate the situation even more.  Here are some more stats:

Quote
Nearly 900 additional blacks were killed in 2016 compared with 2015, bringing the black homicide victim total to 7,881. Those 7,881 ďblack bodies,Ē in the parlance of Ta-Nehisi Coates, are 1,305 more than the number of white victims (which in this case includes most Hispanics) for the same period, though blacks are only 13 percent of the nationís population.

https://nypost.com/2017/09/26/all-that-kneeling-ignores-the-real-cause-of-soaring-black-homicides/

The arrest rates for Afro-Americans is clearly higher.  Talk of legalization of drugs is a big no no here  But why is there no outrage over these numbers and it seems just accepted?  Heck in Cincinnati folks won't even identify their shooters if wounded.

I think most of here, don't want anyone mistreated by the police and most are against it.  A lot of us are polarized by our political views here or there.  I respect the police, but also do not think people ought to be mistreated.

BTW, my son is going to Police Academy.   I was a veteran, he wanted to serve but his mother said it would kill her to see him go overseas.   So policeman was a natural compromise.   I told him it was a bad time to be a police man just as it is a tough time to be soldier when we are at war.   But it is life and it is what you sign up for.   He still may go to the military once he gets his BS of Criminal Justice.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 07:08:56 PM by nickagneta »

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #191 on: May 25, 2018, 07:12:32 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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There undoubtedly are. However, does that make it a good thing? Erik seems to be implying that his stereotypes against police officers are sound in logic because he's had a few bad experiences, so he's grouping all cops under that misguided umbrella.

I don't exactly understand what your problem is. I'm saying that it is data point #1. Based on my bad experiences and what I see on some of these body cam videos, when a cop approaches me, I put my guard up and act differently than I would with the old lady on the train because one of them can and will shoot me if I do or say something that they perceive as threatening. Now, suppose the first thing that they tell me is "Just wanted to say that I like your shirt... I'm also a Celtics fan," well now I have data point #2 and my guard will drop and I'm sure we'll have a great time talking about the ECF. How is this confusing to you at all? It's just how I like to live my life as an intelligent being. Why waste any of my life experience?

During your experiences were you arrested and/or cited? If so, then I could understand why you have these preconceived notions since those situations are clearly unpleasant. Or have you had a situation where an officer responded to your home when you were victimized and took the time to hear you out, fill out a report, and be sympathetic to your mishap? Clearly both situations are different in nature and an officer will usually have a different approach when you're committing a crime and/or a traffic infraction than he would if you were being victimized.

Trying to bring up the body cam videos to validate your point is also pretty poor. There are literally thousands of daily police interactions and with it thousands of body cam videos, but you're basing this on few extreme examples, which is probably about .00001% of police encounters.

That would be akin to saying I put my guard up when a black person approaches me because one time a black person broke into my vehicle and I've seen a lot of video online in which they're armed and committing robberies. That's seriously what you're insinuating whether you realize it or not.


While Erik's response to police seems to be very conscious, the truth is that most of us respond to highly stressful situations in a less conscious, more impulsive way.  I think all of us experience some measure of stress when pulled over by a police officer.  However (at least for me), it is a manageable stress - my rational brain is still operating and I am thinking stratgically about the most effective way to respond.   If I were a person who has had bad experiences with police officers (in any context), it is possible that the stress would manifests more intensely.  In that case, my subconscious protective reactions might be activated and I may very well do something that willl appear to the police officer as either threatening or non-compliant. Fight, Flight, or Freeze in their various manifestations are most likely interpreted by a police officer as a sign that he/she (the officer) should be alert to potential danger -- then, of course, the police officer's history comes into play and potentially causes him/her to have a high-stress reactive response. Escalation ensues on both sides.


Example:  Remember a year or 2 ago there was a shooting in Minnesota. The man was in the driver's seat and his girlfriend in the passenger seat. Her  4 year old daughter was in the back seat.   A seemingly low-stress pull-over went awry and the girlfriend captured the aftermath of the shooting/killing of her boyfriend on her cell phone.  Meanwhile the 4-year old watches her mom's boyfriend get shot/killed and shortly thereafter sees her incredulous and angry mother get handcuffed and arrested (later released - no crime).


Now imagine 15 years from now this little girl, now 19, gets pulled over.  A police officer strolls up to the car and suddenly the girl is overcome by panic.  Perhaps she doesn't even know why.  The police officer notices a young black woman behaving strangely -- nervous, non-responsive to his requests.  He raises the ante -- orders her out of the car.  In her panic she leaps to the passenger door and attempts to get out and run. The officer responds.....


Sorry for the drama.  Just trying to illustrate that the police officer and the person he/she is intervening  with are both complex human beings -- both with their unique life experiences and both prone (perhaps) to reaciting to stress triggered in their subconscious.  An explosive and dangerous outcome is possible.     

Bottom line for me is that we can't expect all citizens to be "trained" in de-escalation. However, maybe we should expect that all police officers are.  In my opinion, police officers should be good self-regulators and highly aware of their own stress triggers.  They should also enter each intervention with a citizen with an understanding of how trauma-related stress manifests and be skilled in proactive and reactive strategies that are minimally likely to trigger escalated emotional responses.  That said, there are circumstances that police officers will trigger emotion just by their presence.  Again, this is something they should be aware of, trained in, and highly skilled in managing. 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 07:19:34 PM by Neurotic Guy »

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #192 on: May 25, 2018, 07:21:36 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Sorry about the legalization thing, I don't use but I am truly sorry about that.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #193 on: May 25, 2018, 07:30:01 PM »

Offline liam

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When I worked with locally police back in the early 80s we had a pair of women officers who were so good at deescalating confrontations. They told me it was because these strong guys/tough guys didn't feel like it was a p---ing contest with them and in most situations guys were more ay ease talking to a women officer that they thought was just there to help. They were a very effective team. Some officers just put you at ease right off the bat.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #194 on: May 25, 2018, 07:54:02 PM »

Offline Erik

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So I'll try to break it down:

There are people who hate the police. I am not one of those people. I understand that it is a job and someone has to do it. I feel like Sterling Brown is in this camp. They are the ones that are at danger in interactions.

There are people who are afraid of the police. That is me. They have guns and can end my life if I don't act properly. We act cautiously and wisely.

Then there are people who don't view the police in any negative light. Must be nice.

That is one part of the discussion. I have no idea why anyone is trying to debate me on my personal emotional response to this. You guys can have your own opinion about your level of safety around them, and I can have my own opinion.

Part 2 of the debate is "police personality" which we can debate. Eddie20 is trying to make it sound like .00001% of cop interactions are bad and the rest are good. No, the .00001% is when it ends in a death of a civilian. What % of interactions are pleasant? How many times have you asked a cop for information and they look at you like you're a potential threat? For what reason? Do you know how rare it is for a cop to die  from a civilian? In 2017, 135 cops died in the line of duty. This number also includes things like heart attack, drowning, airline crashes, 9/11 related illnesses, etc. If you break down this number to homicides by people, it looks like it's about 60.

Cops in general need to do a better job of treating civilians with respect and dignity. When I saw this video I was among the people who thought that the cops acted fine. Why? Because this is routine police work. Be aggressive, hostile, "I own this here," "I have the gun" mentality. If you're going to fire this guy, you have an awful lot of other people that you're going to have to fire as well. If this guy wasn't a celebrity, though, we would have never seen it. So I don't buy the "this is a rare circumstance." It can't be that this many % of the population have a negative perception of law enforcement and it doesn't pass my own smell test to believe.