Author Topic: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police  (Read 3936 times)

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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #165 on: May 25, 2018, 12:13:01 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Asking police to be good unbiased professionals for who enforce the law independent of racial bias shouldn't be a controversial stance. I'm glad the City of Milwaukee copped to it (NPI), and I'm glad the Bucks have stood by their guy.
Not being a jackass to officers in uniform (especially when you're in violation) shouldn't be controversial either, and yet here we are.

So you think the police acted appropriately? I am not saying Sterling Brown did everything right here. I'm not saying he is absolved of the way he parked. I'm asking, did the police conduct themselves in a way that you believe to be acceptable?
Oh, I thought they were horrible, mostly. But to repeat myself, here we are at a point where each side is trying to show the other. We're not going to solve this just with officer suspensions.
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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #166 on: May 25, 2018, 12:24:56 PM »

Online Emmette Bryant

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Asking police to be good unbiased professionals for who enforce the law independent of racial bias shouldn't be a controversial stance. I'm glad the City of Milwaukee copped to it (NPI), and I'm glad the Bucks have stood by their guy.
Not being a jackass to officers in uniform (especially when you're in violation) shouldn't be controversial either, and yet here we are.

So you think the police acted appropriately? I am not saying Sterling Brown did everything right here. I'm not saying he is absolved of the way he parked. I'm asking, did the police conduct themselves in a way that you believe to be acceptable?
Oh, I thought they were horrible, mostly. But to repeat myself, here we are at a point where each side is trying to show the other. We're not going to solve this just with officer suspensions.

Somebody has to be the adult

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #167 on: May 25, 2018, 12:43:27 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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The Fergusen Effect is absolutely real. Situations like this, where the Police department caves to political pressure and throws their good officers under the bus, to avoid protests, only adds to the problem. Innocent lives are being brutalized because of these falsehoods being pushed.
Based on what I've seen in this footage, calling those folks "good officers" is laughably wrong.
Did you watch all 30 minutes?
I watched the full footage until they tazed him. It seemed like a competition of who can be the bigger dink without breaking the rules. While the result was entirely predictable, and the use of force may or may not have been within the letter of the law, this is certainly isn't the type of policing I expect from "good officers".

The officer attempts to enter the car and sets of the alarm, Brown gets his keys out of his pocket and turns off the alarm. This happens a few times (officer pulling on the handle of the locked car setting the alarm off).

You sure about that? Or are you making things up? Provide timestamps on what you "see".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPSpmk7S4eg

5:43 Alarm goes off. No cop is observed trying a door handle. The 2 cops standing are talking to facing Brown.

5:49 You see a person (image redacted) on the passenger side of the vehicle. This is likely who set off the alarm.

6:02 Brown turns off the alarm.

6:35 Alarm again goes off. Again, no officer is observed trying a door handle.

6:39 Same person (image redacted) is again seen on the passenger side of the vehicle. This person again likely set off the alarm.

6:43 The person (image redacted) is confronted by another officer and the alarm never goes off again.


So please stop making things up.

You are holding onto your opinion rather tight, loosen up...I am not making things up any more than you are...we are both interpreting the audio and video of poor quality.  You must think its an important point tho, or you wouldn't fight it so adamantly...

No, you actually are making things up.

These were your exact words...

The officer attempts to enter the car and sets of the alarm, Brown gets his keys out of his pocket and turns off the alarm. This happens a few times (officer pulling on the handle of the locked car setting the alarm off).

So can you please tell me when and where you see an officer pulling the handle several times? If you can't then that's the very definition of making things up. Here's a good synonym...
fab∑ri∑ca∑tion
the action or process of manufacturing or inventing something.

I rewatched the video and see the passenger now.  Didn't see her/him before.  So it is plausible that the cop wasn't setting off the alarm.  I still think its possible he did once or more.  But it is immaterial to the point.  So I'll conceded the point on the alarm.  But your setting up a straw argument and attacking my character instead of arguing the actual point which was the officers were trying to gain entry to the car and Brown refused and the cop continued to intimidate and threaten Brown. How about commenting on the audio in which the officer can be heard saying "open the door"...."because I said so".

Comment on the audio you decided to ignore to make your point...

Of course they wanted to search the vehicle. They didn't have pc so they were trying to get consent. Consent wasn't granted so the vehicle wasn't searched. All they were seen doing was looking through the windows for anything illegal. If they had seen something illegal the vehicle would be held there, a search warrant would've been drafted, reviewed and signed by a judge, and then they would've been able to search inside the vehicle.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #168 on: May 25, 2018, 01:23:55 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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And to be clear, yes, the biggest issue here is the totally unacceptable conduct by the police. I'd fire every last one of them, I don't want cops like that in my town.

But Brown does not deserve to be given a free pass here. The manner in which he acted throughout the entire incident needs to be made clear it was unacceptable. Giving people the impression you are entitled to act in that manner only will lead to more people thinking it's acceptable to act unlawfully simply because the police cannot act in a proper manner.

Absolutely. 

I think absolving either side here is kinda ridiculous.  It's pretty apparent (at least to me) that both sides screwed up here.
Yup, they did. Agree completely

Yeah, but it all comes down to "know your audience." You can really tell a lot about someone just by what profession that they've chosen.

How many cops have you met that are actually in it to serve the people? At the end of the day, they get their kicks out of being above the law. So the next time you interact with one of these people, outsmart them by not falling for it. They're looking for a reason to bust out their shiny new taser or scream at you because your car is nicer than theirs. If you think that "firing all of these and hiring new ones" is going to solve anything, you're dead wrong. Most normal, friendly people don't want to be shot at. The people who APPLY to these jobs fit the profile that we all hate. Do yourself a favor and limit your contact with them by not breaking the law and if you do break the law, wrap it up as fast as possible.

"Sorry officer, I was in a rush and it's late so I figured the slots would be unneeded. I tried to get in and out as fast as possible." Just a handful of intelligence and he goes home instead of getting tased.
Rather difficult to avoid those people as my sister, my sister-in-law, and 2 cousins are law enforcement officers. And none of them are anything like the people you describe. Through them I have met a lot of other officers. Again not like the people you described.

Now, I am not saying those people don't exist, but painting all police with that wide brush is just wrong. There's tons of police officers that are good people. My guess is most are.

Yeah, I interact with cops daily. The majority seem like pretty good people. Between our local PD and Sheriffís Office, there is only one officer I know who routinely escalates situations. Other LEOs acknowledge what a jerk he is.

For the rest of them, theyíre just people doing a job. A lot of them occasionally make bad or questionable decisions, but theyíre not the ďinsecure hothead with a gunĒ stereotype.

My problems with cops tend to be laziness / prejudging during investigations and creative writing of police reports. Too often theyíre advocates of a position rather than neutral observers looking for the truth. Thatís a training issue that seems to be pervasive nation wide.  And, Iíve seen LEOs run out of patience.

Thatís not to say that some cops arenít pricks, but in 15+ years of practice, Iíve met hundreds of cops and only three were initially and unnecessarily antagonistic during an encounter (one NJ state trooper, one Portland cop, and one Bangor officer). 


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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #169 on: May 25, 2018, 01:44:31 PM »

Offline Erik

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And to be clear, yes, the biggest issue here is the totally unacceptable conduct by the police. I'd fire every last one of them, I don't want cops like that in my town.

But Brown does not deserve to be given a free pass here. The manner in which he acted throughout the entire incident needs to be made clear it was unacceptable. Giving people the impression you are entitled to act in that manner only will lead to more people thinking it's acceptable to act unlawfully simply because the police cannot act in a proper manner.

Absolutely. 

I think absolving either side here is kinda ridiculous.  It's pretty apparent (at least to me) that both sides screwed up here.
Yup, they did. Agree completely

Yeah, but it all comes down to "know your audience." You can really tell a lot about someone just by what profession that they've chosen.

How many cops have you met that are actually in it to serve the people? At the end of the day, they get their kicks out of being above the law. So the next time you interact with one of these people, outsmart them by not falling for it. They're looking for a reason to bust out their shiny new taser or scream at you because your car is nicer than theirs. If you think that "firing all of these and hiring new ones" is going to solve anything, you're dead wrong. Most normal, friendly people don't want to be shot at. The people who APPLY to these jobs fit the profile that we all hate. Do yourself a favor and limit your contact with them by not breaking the law and if you do break the law, wrap it up as fast as possible.

"Sorry officer, I was in a rush and it's late so I figured the slots would be unneeded. I tried to get in and out as fast as possible." Just a handful of intelligence and he goes home instead of getting tased.
Rather difficult to avoid those people as my sister, my sister-in-law, and 2 cousins are law enforcement officers. And none of them are anything like the people you describe. Through them I have met a lot of other officers. Again not like the people you described.

Now, I am not saying those people don't exist, but painting all police with that wide brush is just wrong. There's tons of police officers that are good people. My guess is most are.

Your experience with law enforcement is different than mine, starting at 10 years old when a cop detained me in front of my house because he confused a nerf gun with a real gun. I suspect that more people share my view than yours. We could take a poll if you'd like. The amount of cops who have been rude to me for very little to no cause far outweighs the completely professional public servants.

Roy, you've had 100s of encounters with cops? I'm referring solely to a detainment situation. The stereotypes are there for a reason: people believe it to be true.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 01:49:47 PM by Erik »

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #170 on: May 25, 2018, 01:54:40 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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And to be clear, yes, the biggest issue here is the totally unacceptable conduct by the police. I'd fire every last one of them, I don't want cops like that in my town.

But Brown does not deserve to be given a free pass here. The manner in which he acted throughout the entire incident needs to be made clear it was unacceptable. Giving people the impression you are entitled to act in that manner only will lead to more people thinking it's acceptable to act unlawfully simply because the police cannot act in a proper manner.

Absolutely. 

I think absolving either side here is kinda ridiculous.  It's pretty apparent (at least to me) that both sides screwed up here.
Yup, they did. Agree completely

Yeah, but it all comes down to "know your audience." You can really tell a lot about someone just by what profession that they've chosen.

How many cops have you met that are actually in it to serve the people? At the end of the day, they get their kicks out of being above the law. So the next time you interact with one of these people, outsmart them by not falling for it. They're looking for a reason to bust out their shiny new taser or scream at you because your car is nicer than theirs. If you think that "firing all of these and hiring new ones" is going to solve anything, you're dead wrong. Most normal, friendly people don't want to be shot at. The people who APPLY to these jobs fit the profile that we all hate. Do yourself a favor and limit your contact with them by not breaking the law and if you do break the law, wrap it up as fast as possible.

"Sorry officer, I was in a rush and it's late so I figured the slots would be unneeded. I tried to get in and out as fast as possible." Just a handful of intelligence and he goes home instead of getting tased.
Rather difficult to avoid those people as my sister, my sister-in-law, and 2 cousins are law enforcement officers. And none of them are anything like the people you describe. Through them I have met a lot of other officers. Again not like the people you described.

Now, I am not saying those people don't exist, but painting all police with that wide brush is just wrong. There's tons of police officers that are good people. My guess is most are.

Your experience with law enforcement is different than mine, starting at 10 years old when a cop detained me in front of my house because he confused a nerf gun with a real gun. I suspect that more people share my view than yours. We could take a poll if you'd like. The amount of cops who have been rude to me for very little to no cause far outweighs the completely professional public servants.

Roy, you've had 100s of encounters with cops? I'm referring solely to a detainment situation. The stereotypes are there for a reason: people believe it to be true.

Iím a defense attorney. Watching - and exaggerating -  police behavior is what we do.

Stereotypes are dangerous. They take the bad actions of a few and spread them to everybody.


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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #171 on: May 25, 2018, 01:56:57 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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And to be clear, yes, the biggest issue here is the totally unacceptable conduct by the police. I'd fire every last one of them, I don't want cops like that in my town.

But Brown does not deserve to be given a free pass here. The manner in which he acted throughout the entire incident needs to be made clear it was unacceptable. Giving people the impression you are entitled to act in that manner only will lead to more people thinking it's acceptable to act unlawfully simply because the police cannot act in a proper manner.

Absolutely. 

I think absolving either side here is kinda ridiculous.  It's pretty apparent (at least to me) that both sides screwed up here.
Yup, they did. Agree completely

Yeah, but it all comes down to "know your audience." You can really tell a lot about someone just by what profession that they've chosen.

How many cops have you met that are actually in it to serve the people? At the end of the day, they get their kicks out of being above the law. So the next time you interact with one of these people, outsmart them by not falling for it. They're looking for a reason to bust out their shiny new taser or scream at you because your car is nicer than theirs. If you think that "firing all of these and hiring new ones" is going to solve anything, you're dead wrong. Most normal, friendly people don't want to be shot at. The people who APPLY to these jobs fit the profile that we all hate. Do yourself a favor and limit your contact with them by not breaking the law and if you do break the law, wrap it up as fast as possible.

"Sorry officer, I was in a rush and it's late so I figured the slots would be unneeded. I tried to get in and out as fast as possible." Just a handful of intelligence and he goes home instead of getting tased.
Rather difficult to avoid those people as my sister, my sister-in-law, and 2 cousins are law enforcement officers. And none of them are anything like the people you describe. Through them I have met a lot of other officers. Again not like the people you described.

Now, I am not saying those people don't exist, but painting all police with that wide brush is just wrong. There's tons of police officers that are good people. My guess is most are.
Your experience with law enforcement is different than mine, starting at 10 years old when a cop detained me in front of my house because he confused a nerf gun with a real gun.

So what? That's exactly what a police officer should do. Would you rather a cop believe a 10 year old is handling a firearm, but ignore it and continue about his day?

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #172 on: May 25, 2018, 02:06:21 PM »

Offline Erik

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And to be clear, yes, the biggest issue here is the totally unacceptable conduct by the police. I'd fire every last one of them, I don't want cops like that in my town.

But Brown does not deserve to be given a free pass here. The manner in which he acted throughout the entire incident needs to be made clear it was unacceptable. Giving people the impression you are entitled to act in that manner only will lead to more people thinking it's acceptable to act unlawfully simply because the police cannot act in a proper manner.

Absolutely. 

I think absolving either side here is kinda ridiculous.  It's pretty apparent (at least to me) that both sides screwed up here.
Yup, they did. Agree completely

Yeah, but it all comes down to "know your audience." You can really tell a lot about someone just by what profession that they've chosen.

How many cops have you met that are actually in it to serve the people? At the end of the day, they get their kicks out of being above the law. So the next time you interact with one of these people, outsmart them by not falling for it. They're looking for a reason to bust out their shiny new taser or scream at you because your car is nicer than theirs. If you think that "firing all of these and hiring new ones" is going to solve anything, you're dead wrong. Most normal, friendly people don't want to be shot at. The people who APPLY to these jobs fit the profile that we all hate. Do yourself a favor and limit your contact with them by not breaking the law and if you do break the law, wrap it up as fast as possible.

"Sorry officer, I was in a rush and it's late so I figured the slots would be unneeded. I tried to get in and out as fast as possible." Just a handful of intelligence and he goes home instead of getting tased.
Rather difficult to avoid those people as my sister, my sister-in-law, and 2 cousins are law enforcement officers. And none of them are anything like the people you describe. Through them I have met a lot of other officers. Again not like the people you described.

Now, I am not saying those people don't exist, but painting all police with that wide brush is just wrong. There's tons of police officers that are good people. My guess is most are.

Your experience with law enforcement is different than mine, starting at 10 years old when a cop detained me in front of my house because he confused a nerf gun with a real gun. I suspect that more people share my view than yours. We could take a poll if you'd like. The amount of cops who have been rude to me for very little to no cause far outweighs the completely professional public servants.

Roy, you've had 100s of encounters with cops? I'm referring solely to a detainment situation. The stereotypes are there for a reason: people believe it to be true.

Iím a defense attorney. Watching - and exaggerating -  police behavior is what we do.

Stereotypes are dangerous. They take the bad actions of a few and spread them to everybody.

Its dangerous if you use it the wrong way. It's intelligent if you use it as a starting data point. Why completely dismiss statistics? Also I would argue that if it's only a few, it wouldn't be a stereotype.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #173 on: May 25, 2018, 02:30:37 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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And to be clear, yes, the biggest issue here is the totally unacceptable conduct by the police. I'd fire every last one of them, I don't want cops like that in my town.

But Brown does not deserve to be given a free pass here. The manner in which he acted throughout the entire incident needs to be made clear it was unacceptable. Giving people the impression you are entitled to act in that manner only will lead to more people thinking it's acceptable to act unlawfully simply because the police cannot act in a proper manner.

Absolutely. 

I think absolving either side here is kinda ridiculous.  It's pretty apparent (at least to me) that both sides screwed up here.
Yup, they did. Agree completely

Yeah, but it all comes down to "know your audience." You can really tell a lot about someone just by what profession that they've chosen.

How many cops have you met that are actually in it to serve the people? At the end of the day, they get their kicks out of being above the law. So the next time you interact with one of these people, outsmart them by not falling for it. They're looking for a reason to bust out their shiny new taser or scream at you because your car is nicer than theirs. If you think that "firing all of these and hiring new ones" is going to solve anything, you're dead wrong. Most normal, friendly people don't want to be shot at. The people who APPLY to these jobs fit the profile that we all hate. Do yourself a favor and limit your contact with them by not breaking the law and if you do break the law, wrap it up as fast as possible.

"Sorry officer, I was in a rush and it's late so I figured the slots would be unneeded. I tried to get in and out as fast as possible." Just a handful of intelligence and he goes home instead of getting tased.
Rather difficult to avoid those people as my sister, my sister-in-law, and 2 cousins are law enforcement officers. And none of them are anything like the people you describe. Through them I have met a lot of other officers. Again not like the people you described.

Now, I am not saying those people don't exist, but painting all police with that wide brush is just wrong. There's tons of police officers that are good people. My guess is most are.

Your experience with law enforcement is different than mine, starting at 10 years old when a cop detained me in front of my house because he confused a nerf gun with a real gun. I suspect that more people share my view than yours. We could take a poll if you'd like. The amount of cops who have been rude to me for very little to no cause far outweighs the completely professional public servants.

Roy, you've had 100s of encounters with cops? I'm referring solely to a detainment situation. The stereotypes are there for a reason: people believe it to be true.

Iím a defense attorney. Watching - and exaggerating -  police behavior is what we do.

Stereotypes are dangerous. They take the bad actions of a few and spread them to everybody.

Its dangerous if you use it the wrong way. It's intelligent if you use it as a starting data point. Why completely dismiss statistics? Also I would argue that if it's only a few, it wouldn't be a stereotype.

What other stereotypes should we buy into? What percentage of the population believing a stereotype makes it a legit starting point?

Is it safe to assume youíre not friends with any blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, Jews, Muslims, foreigners, Southerners, Christians, city dwellers, Northerners, gays, rural residents, teachers, doctors, lawyers, bankers, car salesmen, Baby Boomers, Gen-Xers, Millenials, etc.?  Because they all have negative stereotypes that you presumably buy into as a starting point.


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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #174 on: May 25, 2018, 02:43:16 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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And to be clear, yes, the biggest issue here is the totally unacceptable conduct by the police. I'd fire every last one of them, I don't want cops like that in my town.

But Brown does not deserve to be given a free pass here. The manner in which he acted throughout the entire incident needs to be made clear it was unacceptable. Giving people the impression you are entitled to act in that manner only will lead to more people thinking it's acceptable to act unlawfully simply because the police cannot act in a proper manner.

Absolutely. 

I think absolving either side here is kinda ridiculous.  It's pretty apparent (at least to me) that both sides screwed up here.
Yup, they did. Agree completely

Yeah, but it all comes down to "know your audience." You can really tell a lot about someone just by what profession that they've chosen.

How many cops have you met that are actually in it to serve the people? At the end of the day, they get their kicks out of being above the law. So the next time you interact with one of these people, outsmart them by not falling for it. They're looking for a reason to bust out their shiny new taser or scream at you because your car is nicer than theirs. If you think that "firing all of these and hiring new ones" is going to solve anything, you're dead wrong. Most normal, friendly people don't want to be shot at. The people who APPLY to these jobs fit the profile that we all hate. Do yourself a favor and limit your contact with them by not breaking the law and if you do break the law, wrap it up as fast as possible.

"Sorry officer, I was in a rush and it's late so I figured the slots would be unneeded. I tried to get in and out as fast as possible." Just a handful of intelligence and he goes home instead of getting tased.
Rather difficult to avoid those people as my sister, my sister-in-law, and 2 cousins are law enforcement officers. And none of them are anything like the people you describe. Through them I have met a lot of other officers. Again not like the people you described.

Now, I am not saying those people don't exist, but painting all police with that wide brush is just wrong. There's tons of police officers that are good people. My guess is most are.

Your experience with law enforcement is different than mine, starting at 10 years old when a cop detained me in front of my house because he confused a nerf gun with a real gun. I suspect that more people share my view than yours. We could take a poll if you'd like. The amount of cops who have been rude to me for very little to no cause far outweighs the completely professional public servants.

Roy, you've had 100s of encounters with cops? I'm referring solely to a detainment situation. The stereotypes are there for a reason: people believe it to be true.

Iím a defense attorney. Watching - and exaggerating -  police behavior is what we do.

Stereotypes are dangerous. They take the bad actions of a few and spread them to everybody.

Its dangerous if you use it the wrong way. It's intelligent if you use it as a starting data point. Why completely dismiss statistics? Also I would argue that if it's only a few, it wouldn't be a stereotype.

This makes no sense. So you only use stereotypes the "right way"? What the difference between using stereotypes the right way vs the wrong way? Can you elaborate further? What are the statistics you're alluding to?

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #175 on: May 25, 2018, 02:55:22 PM »

Offline Erik

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I tend to focus on stereotypes (probably the wrong word for it) that have some sort of statistical backing. Where you're going with this are unfounded stereotypes based on biased observation (I would note that you have stereotyped cops as good people based on a small sample size). I generally discard those unless I am the one who has personally observed the behavior and it is detrimental to my health (cops are a fantastic example). I choose to not throw away statistical evidence.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #176 on: May 25, 2018, 02:55:24 PM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

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And to be clear, yes, the biggest issue here is the totally unacceptable conduct by the police. I'd fire every last one of them, I don't want cops like that in my town.

But Brown does not deserve to be given a free pass here. The manner in which he acted throughout the entire incident needs to be made clear it was unacceptable. Giving people the impression you are entitled to act in that manner only will lead to more people thinking it's acceptable to act unlawfully simply because the police cannot act in a proper manner.

Absolutely. 

I think absolving either side here is kinda ridiculous.  It's pretty apparent (at least to me) that both sides screwed up here.
Yup, they did. Agree completely

Yeah, but it all comes down to "know your audience." You can really tell a lot about someone just by what profession that they've chosen.

How many cops have you met that are actually in it to serve the people? At the end of the day, they get their kicks out of being above the law. So the next time you interact with one of these people, outsmart them by not falling for it. They're looking for a reason to bust out their shiny new taser or scream at you because your car is nicer than theirs. If you think that "firing all of these and hiring new ones" is going to solve anything, you're dead wrong. Most normal, friendly people don't want to be shot at. The people who APPLY to these jobs fit the profile that we all hate. Do yourself a favor and limit your contact with them by not breaking the law and if you do break the law, wrap it up as fast as possible.

"Sorry officer, I was in a rush and it's late so I figured the slots would be unneeded. I tried to get in and out as fast as possible." Just a handful of intelligence and he goes home instead of getting tased.
Rather difficult to avoid those people as my sister, my sister-in-law, and 2 cousins are law enforcement officers. And none of them are anything like the people you describe. Through them I have met a lot of other officers. Again not like the people you described.

Now, I am not saying those people don't exist, but painting all police with that wide brush is just wrong. There's tons of police officers that are good people. My guess is most are.

Your experience with law enforcement is different than mine, starting at 10 years old when a cop detained me in front of my house because he confused a nerf gun with a real gun. I suspect that more people share my view than yours. We could take a poll if you'd like. The amount of cops who have been rude to me for very little to no cause far outweighs the completely professional public servants.

Roy, you've had 100s of encounters with cops? I'm referring solely to a detainment situation. The stereotypes are there for a reason: people believe it to be true.

Iím a defense attorney. Watching - and exaggerating -  police behavior is what we do.

Stereotypes are dangerous. They take the bad actions of a few and spread them to everybody.

Its dangerous if you use it the wrong way. It's intelligent if you use it as a starting data point. Why completely dismiss statistics? Also I would argue that if it's only a few, it wouldn't be a stereotype.

This makes no sense. So you only use stereotypes the "right way"? What the difference between using stereotypes the right way vs the wrong way? Can you elaborate further? What are the statistics you're alluding to?

Using a stereotype the wrong way: A cop shoots and kills an 8 year old black child holding a toy gun because he heard Fox News talking about Chicago or some other nonsense and assumed the child was a violent criminal

Using a stereotype the right way: Seeing an elderly person on the subway and giving up your seat, assuming that their joints ache and their muscles are weak and that they would prefer to sit.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #177 on: May 25, 2018, 03:20:06 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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And to be clear, yes, the biggest issue here is the totally unacceptable conduct by the police. I'd fire every last one of them, I don't want cops like that in my town.

But Brown does not deserve to be given a free pass here. The manner in which he acted throughout the entire incident needs to be made clear it was unacceptable. Giving people the impression you are entitled to act in that manner only will lead to more people thinking it's acceptable to act unlawfully simply because the police cannot act in a proper manner.

Absolutely. 

I think absolving either side here is kinda ridiculous.  It's pretty apparent (at least to me) that both sides screwed up here.
Yup, they did. Agree completely

Yeah, but it all comes down to "know your audience." You can really tell a lot about someone just by what profession that they've chosen.

How many cops have you met that are actually in it to serve the people? At the end of the day, they get their kicks out of being above the law. So the next time you interact with one of these people, outsmart them by not falling for it. They're looking for a reason to bust out their shiny new taser or scream at you because your car is nicer than theirs. If you think that "firing all of these and hiring new ones" is going to solve anything, you're dead wrong. Most normal, friendly people don't want to be shot at. The people who APPLY to these jobs fit the profile that we all hate. Do yourself a favor and limit your contact with them by not breaking the law and if you do break the law, wrap it up as fast as possible.

"Sorry officer, I was in a rush and it's late so I figured the slots would be unneeded. I tried to get in and out as fast as possible." Just a handful of intelligence and he goes home instead of getting tased.
Rather difficult to avoid those people as my sister, my sister-in-law, and 2 cousins are law enforcement officers. And none of them are anything like the people you describe. Through them I have met a lot of other officers. Again not like the people you described.

Now, I am not saying those people don't exist, but painting all police with that wide brush is just wrong. There's tons of police officers that are good people. My guess is most are.

Your experience with law enforcement is different than mine, starting at 10 years old when a cop detained me in front of my house because he confused a nerf gun with a real gun. I suspect that more people share my view than yours. We could take a poll if you'd like. The amount of cops who have been rude to me for very little to no cause far outweighs the completely professional public servants.

Roy, you've had 100s of encounters with cops? I'm referring solely to a detainment situation. The stereotypes are there for a reason: people believe it to be true.

Iím a defense attorney. Watching - and exaggerating -  police behavior is what we do.

Stereotypes are dangerous. They take the bad actions of a few and spread them to everybody.

Its dangerous if you use it the wrong way. It's intelligent if you use it as a starting data point. Why completely dismiss statistics? Also I would argue that if it's only a few, it wouldn't be a stereotype.

This makes no sense. So you only use stereotypes the "right way"? What the difference between using stereotypes the right way vs the wrong way? Can you elaborate further? What are the statistics you're alluding to?

Using a stereotype the wrong way: A cop shoots and kills an 8 year old black child holding a toy gun because he heard Fox News talking about Chicago or some other nonsense and assumed the child was a violent criminal

Using a stereotype the right way: Seeing an elderly person on the subway and giving up your seat, assuming that their joints ache and their muscles are weak and that they would prefer to sit.


Well your example is at least this: using stereotypes can done with benign intent. 

A caveat around stereotypes is that sometimes people think it's OK to stereotype if the characteristic in the stereotype is valued or respectable.   When my wife and I were engaged, a friend of hers heard what my ethnic background is and said to her "you're lucky, they make good husbands".    Sounds OK on the surface perhaps, but whenever an assumption is made about a person (good or bad) based on nothing other than your skin color or ethnicity or gender... it's not really a good thing.


What Erik refers to above (I think) is when there are actual statistics to back up the assumption. In that case, it may be OK to say that as a group one ethnic group tends perform better or worse than another ethnic group, but it would still be incorrect to presume that you know anything about an individual based solely on their racial, ethnic, gender identity.   Knowing that Asian-Americans score better on SATs than other ethnic groups, does not mean that I know anything about the SAT scores of the Asian-American I just met.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #178 on: May 25, 2018, 03:25:24 PM »

Offline liam

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I tend to focus on stereotypes (probably the wrong word for it) that have some sort of statistical backing. Where you're going with this are unfounded stereotypes based on biased observation (I would note that you have stereotyped cops as good people based on a small sample size). I generally discard those unless I am the one who has personally observed the behavior and it is detrimental to my health (cops are a fantastic example). I choose to not throw away statistical evidence.

Mark Twain  "There are three kinds of lies: lies, "Darn" lies, and statistics."

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #179 on: May 25, 2018, 03:28:57 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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And to be clear, yes, the biggest issue here is the totally unacceptable conduct by the police. I'd fire every last one of them, I don't want cops like that in my town.

But Brown does not deserve to be given a free pass here. The manner in which he acted throughout the entire incident needs to be made clear it was unacceptable. Giving people the impression you are entitled to act in that manner only will lead to more people thinking it's acceptable to act unlawfully simply because the police cannot act in a proper manner.

Absolutely. 

I think absolving either side here is kinda ridiculous.  It's pretty apparent (at least to me) that both sides screwed up here.
Yup, they did. Agree completely

Yeah, but it all comes down to "know your audience." You can really tell a lot about someone just by what profession that they've chosen.

How many cops have you met that are actually in it to serve the people? At the end of the day, they get their kicks out of being above the law. So the next time you interact with one of these people, outsmart them by not falling for it. They're looking for a reason to bust out their shiny new taser or scream at you because your car is nicer than theirs. If you think that "firing all of these and hiring new ones" is going to solve anything, you're dead wrong. Most normal, friendly people don't want to be shot at. The people who APPLY to these jobs fit the profile that we all hate. Do yourself a favor and limit your contact with them by not breaking the law and if you do break the law, wrap it up as fast as possible.

"Sorry officer, I was in a rush and it's late so I figured the slots would be unneeded. I tried to get in and out as fast as possible." Just a handful of intelligence and he goes home instead of getting tased.
Rather difficult to avoid those people as my sister, my sister-in-law, and 2 cousins are law enforcement officers. And none of them are anything like the people you describe. Through them I have met a lot of other officers. Again not like the people you described.

Now, I am not saying those people don't exist, but painting all police with that wide brush is just wrong. There's tons of police officers that are good people. My guess is most are.

Your experience with law enforcement is different than mine, starting at 10 years old when a cop detained me in front of my house because he confused a nerf gun with a real gun. I suspect that more people share my view than yours. We could take a poll if you'd like. The amount of cops who have been rude to me for very little to no cause far outweighs the completely professional public servants.

Roy, you've had 100s of encounters with cops? I'm referring solely to a detainment situation. The stereotypes are there for a reason: people believe it to be true.

Iím a defense attorney. Watching - and exaggerating -  police behavior is what we do.

Stereotypes are dangerous. They take the bad actions of a few and spread them to everybody.

Its dangerous if you use it the wrong way. It's intelligent if you use it as a starting data point. Why completely dismiss statistics? Also I would argue that if it's only a few, it wouldn't be a stereotype.

This makes no sense. So you only use stereotypes the "right way"? What the difference between using stereotypes the right way vs the wrong way? Can you elaborate further? What are the statistics you're alluding to?

Using a stereotype the wrong way: A cop shoots and kills an 8 year old black child holding a toy gun because he heard Fox News talking about Chicago or some other nonsense and assumed the child was a violent criminal

Using a stereotype the right way: Seeing an elderly person on the subway and giving up your seat, assuming that their joints ache and their muscles are weak and that they would prefer to sit.

The first one isn't a stereotype it's just a ridiculous example  that doesn't make much sense. So an officer shoots a little kid because of a Fox report and assumes he's a violent criminal. The other is called manners. No different than holding a door open for someone walking behind you.