Author Topic: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police  (Read 5180 times)

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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2018, 04:49:27 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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No more talk of white priviledge is to occur. Stay on subject.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #76 on: May 24, 2018, 04:55:58 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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The video starts with the officer asking for identification while Brown is walking around to the driver's side. What right does any police officer have to just out of no where ask for ID from a person who is not breaking any law or shows no signs of be under the influence? Police are not allowed to just ask innocent people for ID.

And why were there 4 officers there for a simple parking ticket? I don't get that.

The officers were definitely culpable in that way. That said Brown was a moron for not simply answering the questions, producing his license, and following the officers directions. Then he could simply ask if the officers cam was on, get his answer and leave. Then he could have put in a complaint against the officer for illegal stop and search.

I can tell you didn't watch the whole video.

The video starts with Brown nowhere in sight and the officer wondering why a vehicle parked blocking 2 handicapped spaces in the parking lot. Later, he even tells another officer something along the lines of initially thinking someone had a medical emergency. That said, it wasn't "out of no where" that he asked for Brown's ID. Brown was committing a parking infraction and if you look closely you'll see that the vehicle he was driving read "courtesy vehicle" on the read windshield. So even by running the tag you would get the dealer info and not Brown's. In addition, a majority of those dealer tags are not associated with a specific vehicle and instead come back to the dealer without any vehicle information. Brown may have been innocent of a crime, but he wasn't innocent of a parking violation and the officer had every right to ask for ID. This part is simply irrefutable.

Why were there 4 officers? Honestly, who cares? What's your point? Is there a specific limit when dealing with a non-compliant individual? If you were dealing with a non-complaint individual how many would you want by you? That said, the officer was actually telling the responding officers he was only requesting 1 back-up and seemed a bit embarrassed that so many officers responded.

What illegal stop and frisk did you observe? The officers have every right to have Brown remove his hands from his pockets and the fact he said he was holding something wasn't the smartest thing to say and gave them reasonable suspicion to believe he had a weapon and would be 100% justifiable in conducting a pat-down.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #77 on: May 24, 2018, 04:58:05 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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EDIT: I based this opinion on the 90 second video. I just watched the whole video. Again, I fon't believe the officer had the right to ask for ID right of. He should have asked Brown if the car was his and then told him he was getting a parking ticket. My guess is if this happened, then nothing further would have happened.

Brown was still an idiot.
So there are a couple of things here I discovered in the interim:

1. Wisconsin is a stop-and-ID state, which means that officers can briefly detain you and ask for ID if they think you're committing a crime.

2. While parking violations are typically civil offenses (rather than crimes), in some states parking in a disabled spot without the requisite placard is a misdemeanor; I couldn't tell conclusively whether WI is one of those states (their RMV site only states that "Misuse or abuse of these privileges is a misdemeanor; offenders can get fines of up to $300.")
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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2018, 04:59:24 PM »

Offline Erik

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If I'm a cop and see someone parking like that, I would immediately wonder if he has had any drugs or alcohol. It's certainly within reason to ask a couple questions to make sure the guy isn't committing an even worse crime. You want the cop to just let the guy leave and mail him a ticket? First of all, that's absurd -- law enforcement doesn't work like that. Second, what if he's drunk or on drugs and goes kills people in a traffic accident? You'd be calling for his head in another thread.

The most (un)surprising part to me is that the media is ready to crown Brown a hero and the cops scumbags. There are no heroes here. The cops did their job and Brown is a complete idiot. I'm just glad that no one died.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #79 on: May 24, 2018, 05:04:26 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Its really scary how many people think "non-compliance" or being argumentative about a parking ticket means force is warranted.

"I own this" That's what struck me the most about this video "I own this". Well that officer "proved it" I guess with 4 other law enforcement officers who took him down and then booked him.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #80 on: May 24, 2018, 05:10:37 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Its really scary how many people think "non-compliance" or being argumentative about a parking ticket means force is warranted.

You're missing the part where he had his hands in his pockets and then said I'm holding on to something. If when asked to show his hands he would've complied the force would've likely never taken place. Him saying "I'm holding on to something" or "I have something in my pockets" (I can't remember what the wording was) was what turned the situation into what it became. The parking violation caused the interaction, but did NOT cause the force.

Brown only has himself to blame. The parking lot was completely empty and he's a professional athlete in his early 20's. How hard would it be to properly park, leave the disabled parking spots for someone that's actually in physical need of one, and walk a few extra feet?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 05:15:53 PM by Eddie20 »

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #81 on: May 24, 2018, 05:14:24 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Its really scary how many people think "non-compliance" or being argumentative about a parking ticket means force is warranted.

"I own this" That's what struck me the most about this video "I own this". Well that officer "proved it" I guess with 4 other law enforcement officers who took him down and then booked him.
The point being that disabled parking spots may be city property even when they're within the bounds of a private entity. I'm pretty sure this applies in WI.

Also, he decided to bark back at the cop that he has "stuff in his pockets". Really? I know he may have been frustrated by a hangup over a seemingly trivial matter, but really?
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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #82 on: May 24, 2018, 05:20:11 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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EDIT: I based this opinion on the 90 second video. I just watched the whole video. Again, I fon't believe the officer had the right to ask for ID right of. He should have asked Brown if the car was his and then told him he was getting a parking ticket. My guess is if this happened, then nothing further would have happened.

Brown was still an idiot.
So there are a couple of things here I discovered in the interim:

1. Wisconsin is a stop-and-ID state, which means that officers can briefly detain you and ask for ID if they think you're committing a crime.

2. While parking violations are typically civil offenses (rather than crimes), in some states parking in a disabled spot without the requisite placard is a misdemeanor; I couldn't tell conclusively whether WI is one of those states (their RMV site only states that "Misuse or abuse of these privileges is a misdemeanor; offenders can get fines of up to $300.")
Important part of what you said is if he is committing a crime. As you said, parking violations are civil offense, where is the crime.

Listen, there's a reason the chief disciplined the officers. They handled the situation wrong. That's pretty evident to me watching the start of that video.

And again, anyone that is given instructions by an officer should follow them. To not do so is just stupid. And if Brown felt the officer handled it wrong after complying, he just needs to get the officers name or badge number and complain. The cam footage would be his proof.


Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #83 on: May 24, 2018, 05:20:24 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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Its really scary how many people think "non-compliance" or being argumentative about a parking ticket means force is warranted.

You're missing the part where he had his hands in his pockets and then said I'm holding on to something. If when asked to show his hands he would've complied the force would've likely never taken place. Him saying "I'm holding on to something" or "I have something in my pockets" (I can't remember what the wording was) was what turned the situation into what it became. The parking violation caused the interaction, but did NOT cause the force.

Brown only has himself to blame. The parking lot was completely empty and he's a professional athlete in his early 20's. How hard would it be to properly park, leave the disabled parking spots for someone that's actually in physical need of one, and walk a few extra feet?


It's easy for people to second guess what cops do when it's not their life that could be taken if the proper precautions are not employed.

I'm not absolving all cops, but when you're in that position, it would be foolish to take a chance.

IMO, Brown did what he did to bait the cops. Either that, or he's an incredibly stupid person.

"Hey, I'm going to tell the guys with a gun and big stick that I'm holding onto something in my pocket that might cause them to think I'm armed." What planet do you have to be from to even think this would turn out well for you?

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #84 on: May 24, 2018, 05:21:45 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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EDIT: I based this opinion on the 90 second video. I just watched the whole video. Again, I fon't believe the officer had the right to ask for ID right of. He should have asked Brown if the car was his and then told him he was getting a parking ticket. My guess is if this happened, then nothing further would have happened.

Brown was still an idiot.
So there are a couple of things here I discovered in the interim:

1. Wisconsin is a stop-and-ID state, which means that officers can briefly detain you and ask for ID if they think you're committing a crime.

2. While parking violations are typically civil offenses (rather than crimes), in some states parking in a disabled spot without the requisite placard is a misdemeanor; I couldn't tell conclusively whether WI is one of those states (their RMV site only states that "Misuse or abuse of these privileges is a misdemeanor; offenders can get fines of up to $300.")
Important part of what you said is if he is committing a crime. As you said, parking violations are civil offense, where is the crime.

Listen, there's a reason the chief disciplined the officers. They handled the situation wrong. That's pretty evident to me watching the start of that video.

And again, anyone that is given instructions by an officer should follow them. To not do so is just stupid. And if Brown felt the officer handled it wrong after complying, he just needs to get the officers name or badge number and complain. The cam footage would be his proof.

The real problem here is handicap spaces. If those didn't exist, then there would've been no altercation. Ban them! :P

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2018, 05:24:02 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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EDIT: I based this opinion on the 90 second video. I just watched the whole video. Again, I fon't believe the officer had the right to ask for ID right of. He should have asked Brown if the car was his and then told him he was getting a parking ticket. My guess is if this happened, then nothing further would have happened.

Brown was still an idiot.
So there are a couple of things here I discovered in the interim:

1. Wisconsin is a stop-and-ID state, which means that officers can briefly detain you and ask for ID if they think you're committing a crime.

2. While parking violations are typically civil offenses (rather than crimes), in some states parking in a disabled spot without the requisite placard is a misdemeanor; I couldn't tell conclusively whether WI is one of those states (their RMV site only states that "Misuse or abuse of these privileges is a misdemeanor; offenders can get fines of up to $300.")
Important part of what you said is if he is committing a crime. As you said, parking violations are civil offense, where is the crime.

Listen, there's a reason the chief disciplined the officers. They handled the situation wrong. That's pretty evident to me watching the start of that video.

And again, anyone that is given instructions by an officer should follow them. To not do so is just stupid. And if Brown felt the officer handled it wrong after complying, he just needs to get the officers name or badge number and complain. The cam footage would be his proof.
As I said, handicapped parking violations are misdemeanors in some states. It wasn't immediately obvious to me whether WI was one of them and I don't have time to dig through their statutes.

I agree that there are reasons those were disciplined. But reasons have not been stated, and possible reasons such as failure to follow protocol in submitting the police report on use of force and failure to be civil and courteous to citizens are cited. Local press has a decent roundup of this:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/05/24/sterling-brown-case-common-council-calls-change-transparency/640919002/
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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #86 on: May 24, 2018, 05:39:11 PM »

Offline liam

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EDIT: I based this opinion on the 90 second video. I just watched the whole video. Again, I fon't believe the officer had the right to ask for ID right of. He should have asked Brown if the car was his and then told him he was getting a parking ticket. My guess is if this happened, then nothing further would have happened.

Brown was still an idiot.
So there are a couple of things here I discovered in the interim:

1. Wisconsin is a stop-and-ID state, which means that officers can briefly detain you and ask for ID if they think you're committing a crime.

2. While parking violations are typically civil offenses (rather than crimes), in some states parking in a disabled spot without the requisite placard is a misdemeanor; I couldn't tell conclusively whether WI is one of those states (their RMV site only states that "Misuse or abuse of these privileges is a misdemeanor; offenders can get fines of up to $300.")
Important part of what you said is if he is committing a crime. As you said, parking violations are civil offense, where is the crime.

Listen, there's a reason the chief disciplined the officers. They handled the situation wrong. That's pretty evident to me watching the start of that video.

And again, anyone that is given instructions by an officer should follow them. To not do so is just stupid. And if Brown felt the officer handled it wrong after complying, he just needs to get the officers name or badge number and complain. The cam footage would be his proof.
As I said, handicapped parking violations are misdemeanors in some states. It wasn't immediately obvious to me whether WI was one of them and I don't have time to dig through their statutes.

I agree that there are reasons those were disciplined. But reasons have not been stated, and possible reasons such as failure to follow protocol in submitting the police report on use of force and failure to be civil and courteous to citizens are cited. Local press has a decent roundup of this:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/05/24/sterling-brown-case-common-council-calls-change-transparency/640919002/

What states have parking fines as a crime?

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2018, 05:42:01 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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EDIT: I based this opinion on the 90 second video. I just watched the whole video. Again, I fon't believe the officer had the right to ask for ID right of. He should have asked Brown if the car was his and then told him he was getting a parking ticket. My guess is if this happened, then nothing further would have happened.

Brown was still an idiot.
So there are a couple of things here I discovered in the interim:

1. Wisconsin is a stop-and-ID state, which means that officers can briefly detain you and ask for ID if they think you're committing a crime.

2. While parking violations are typically civil offenses (rather than crimes), in some states parking in a disabled spot without the requisite placard is a misdemeanor; I couldn't tell conclusively whether WI is one of those states (their RMV site only states that "Misuse or abuse of these privileges is a misdemeanor; offenders can get fines of up to $300.")
Important part of what you said is if he is committing a crime. As you said, parking violations are civil offense, where is the crime.

Listen, there's a reason the chief disciplined the officers. They handled the situation wrong. That's pretty evident to me watching the start of that video.

And again, anyone that is given instructions by an officer should follow them. To not do so is just stupid. And if Brown felt the officer handled it wrong after complying, he just needs to get the officers name or badge number and complain. The cam footage would be his proof.
As I said, handicapped parking violations are misdemeanors in some states. It wasn't immediately obvious to me whether WI was one of them and I don't have time to dig through their statutes.

I agree that there are reasons those were disciplined. But reasons have not been stated, and possible reasons such as failure to follow protocol in submitting the police report on use of force and failure to be civil and courteous to citizens are cited. Local press has a decent roundup of this:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/05/24/sterling-brown-case-common-council-calls-change-transparency/640919002/

Wisconsin State Statutes
Quote
346.505  Stopping, standing or parking prohibited in parking spaces reserved for vehicles displaying special registration plates or special identification cards.
(1) The legislature finds that parking facilities which are open to use by the public without a permit, whether publicly or privately owned, are public places. By enacting this section the legislature intends to ensure that people who are physically disabled have clear and reasonable access to public places. The legislature, therefore, urges the police, sheriff's and traffic departments of every unit of government and each authorized department of the state to enforce this section vigorously and see that all violations of this section are promptly prosecuted.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #88 on: May 24, 2018, 06:54:34 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I think the cop was over-aggressive and Brown acted like a punk.

I think cops who canít be patient with jerks need new jobs. At the same time, if you refuse police instructions, expect to be detained.


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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #89 on: May 24, 2018, 07:15:15 PM »

Offline liam

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EDIT: I based this opinion on the 90 second video. I just watched the whole video. Again, I fon't believe the officer had the right to ask for ID right of. He should have asked Brown if the car was his and then told him he was getting a parking ticket. My guess is if this happened, then nothing further would have happened.

Brown was still an idiot.
So there are a couple of things here I discovered in the interim:

1. Wisconsin is a stop-and-ID state, which means that officers can briefly detain you and ask for ID if they think you're committing a crime.

2. While parking violations are typically civil offenses (rather than crimes), in some states parking in a disabled spot without the requisite placard is a misdemeanor; I couldn't tell conclusively whether WI is one of those states (their RMV site only states that "Misuse or abuse of these privileges is a misdemeanor; offenders can get fines of up to $300.")
Important part of what you said is if he is committing a crime. As you said, parking violations are civil offense, where is the crime.

Listen, there's a reason the chief disciplined the officers. They handled the situation wrong. That's pretty evident to me watching the start of that video.

And again, anyone that is given instructions by an officer should follow them. To not do so is just stupid. And if Brown felt the officer handled it wrong after complying, he just needs to get the officers name or badge number and complain. The cam footage would be his proof.
As I said, handicapped parking violations are misdemeanors in some states. It wasn't immediately obvious to me whether WI was one of them and I don't have time to dig through their statutes.

I agree that there are reasons those were disciplined. But reasons have not been stated, and possible reasons such as failure to follow protocol in submitting the police report on use of force and failure to be civil and courteous to citizens are cited. Local press has a decent roundup of this:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/05/24/sterling-brown-case-common-council-calls-change-transparency/640919002/

Wisconsin State Statutes
Quote
346.505  Stopping, standing or parking prohibited in parking spaces reserved for vehicles displaying special registration plates or special identification cards.
(1) The legislature finds that parking facilities which are open to use by the public without a permit, whether publicly or privately owned, are public places. By enacting this section the legislature intends to ensure that people who are physically disabled have clear and reasonable access to public places. The legislature, therefore, urges the police, sheriff's and traffic departments of every unit of government and each authorized department of the state to enforce this section vigorously and see that all violations of this section are promptly prosecuted.

Doesn't this still mean with a ticket or towing of the vehicle? I don't think this covers violently arresting someone.