Author Topic: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police  (Read 4058 times)

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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2018, 03:14:12 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Reading these comments reminds me why I rarely participate in this blog, every post about obvious over reach by police officers always has so many people blindly supporting the cops. I'm black & just think its awful that there seems to be some consensus that the cops creating a hostile incident over a freaking parking ticket is OK. They literally surrounded this man with like 10 cops & intimidated him gang style. This was gang level types of intimidation simple & plain. As a military veteran, I dont think I could ever trust the "authorities" in this country, they've proven to be dishonest far too many times, but even more troubling is the people cheering on the cops as they terrorize black citizens over petty minor infractions while we watch white mass murderers get taken in without a scratch on them, shoot, white mass murderers can even get the cops to buy them Burger King for free if they say their hungry

I agree with most everything you wrote here, except I don't think there's a consensus that the police officer's actions were OK. I think most people agree that he went too far, and the minority dissenting opinion is often louder in these emotionally charged situations.

I myself don't have strong connections to the police (family, friends). If, however, I did and I heard anti-police rhetoric, I would likely become entrenched in my support of the police. People respond defensively to criticism- it's almost a fact at this point.

I think most people can see that armed police officers shouldn't be aggressively engaging with civilians when it comes to trivial matters. If Brown's out there spraying fire with a machine gun, I'm fine with the aggressive approach. To me, the police officer lost control of the situation, and didn't back down. It's not like he can't take photos of the guy and the plates. If the officer still feels disrespected and wants to act on his emotions, he can always show up to court and make sure that they bust Brown's cookies with some legal mumbo jumbo.

And yes, I think Brown could have handled himself a whole lot better.

The Police have to have probable cause. If you are so scared don't be a cop.

Constitutionally, police need to reach the threshold of "Reasonable Suspicion", to conduct an investigation, Probable Cause is needed for search or arrest. Because of Brown's actions, officers in this case reached the threshold for what would have been a legal pat frisk. See Terry V Ohio.



Absolutely.   Refusing to take your hands out of your pockets is grounds for the officer to search your person. 

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2018, 03:15:41 PM »

Online kozlodoev

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Reading these comments reminds me why I rarely participate in this blog, every post about obvious over reach by police officers always has so many people blindly supporting the cops. I'm black & just think its awful that there seems to be some consensus that the cops creating a hostile incident over a freaking parking ticket is OK. They literally surrounded this man with like 10 cops & intimidated him gang style. This was gang level types of intimidation simple & plain. As a military veteran, I dont think I could ever trust the "authorities" in this country, they've proven to be dishonest far too many times, but even more troubling is the people cheering on the cops as they terrorize black citizens over petty minor infractions while we watch white mass murderers get taken in without a scratch on them, shoot, white mass murderers can even get the cops to buy them Burger King for free if they say their hungry

You have more people sympathetic to you on this blog than not. For some reason inexplicable to me, the white upper middle class always shows in defense of the police. I am white upper middle class. To others like me, I cannot stress enough how little your opinion matters when it comes to how the police treat black people in this country. You cannot possibly have lived it. Even Sterling Brown, who is far closer to the 1% than any of us are, and drives a car indicative of his socioeconomic class, is not immune to bigotry and profiling by the police. If you can't see a problem, well that's probably because you

literally cannot see one
But it's ok for black folks to tell me in no uncertain terms about my "privileged" white experience? Have they lived it?

Your premise is quite illustrative about why race relations in this country are going nowhere. No-one can tell anything to anyone.

Also, if my opinion doesn't matter, why the heck am I supposed to support this cause? Go talk to someone whose opinion is important :P
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 03:26:42 PM by kozlodoev »
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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2018, 03:24:11 PM »

Online kozlodoev

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The Washington Post has the full video

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/05/23/sterling-brown-police-video/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.60c8cf12a036
They do? The full video is half an hour, I only see a minute and a half there.

The full video doesn't look great for the police though. Is that cop purposefully messing with his bodycam?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPSpmk7S4eg&feature=youtu.be
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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2018, 03:28:41 PM »

Online TomHeinsohn

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Reading these comments reminds me why I rarely participate in this blog, every post about obvious over reach by police officers always has so many people blindly supporting the cops. I'm black & just think its awful that there seems to be some consensus that the cops creating a hostile incident over a freaking parking ticket is OK. They literally surrounded this man with like 10 cops & intimidated him gang style. This was gang level types of intimidation simple & plain. As a military veteran, I dont think I could ever trust the "authorities" in this country, they've proven to be dishonest far too many times, but even more troubling is the people cheering on the cops as they terrorize black citizens over petty minor infractions while we watch white mass murderers get taken in without a scratch on them, shoot, white mass murderers can even get the cops to buy them Burger King for free if they say their hungry

You have more people sympathetic to you on this blog than not. For some reason inexplicable to me, the white upper middle class always shows in defense of the police. I am white upper middle class. To others like me, I cannot stress enough how little your opinion matters when it comes to how the police treat black people in this country. You cannot possibly have lived it. Even Sterling Brown, who is far closer to the 1% than any of us are, and drives a car indicative of his socioeconomic class, is not immune to bigotry and profiling by the police. If you can't see a problem, well that's probably because you

literally cannot see one
But it's ok for black folks to tell me in no uncertain terms about my "privileged" white experience? Have they lived it?

Your premise is quite illustrative about why race relations in this country are going nowhere. No-one can tell anything to anyone.

Also, if my opinion doesn't matter, why the heck am I supposed to support this cause?

I'm sorry, but I'd bet that there aren't any institutional deleterious impacts on your life due to people mentioning white privilege. Racial profiling does negatively impact people of color. There is no such thing as racism against white people. There may be prejudice, but there lacks the institutional framework and civil power structure for actual racism to exist.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2018, 03:28:46 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The Washington Post has the full video

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/05/23/sterling-brown-police-video/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.60c8cf12a036
They do? The full video is half an hour, I only see a minute and a half there.

The full video doesn't look great for the police though. Is that cop purposefully messing with his bodycam?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPSpmk7S4eg&feature=youtu.be
maybe not the full video, but I saw a 10 minute clip there.  It jumps ahead some, but it shows the whole beginning interaction where Brown is being a complete jackass.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2018, 03:33:15 PM »

Online kozlodoev

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The Washington Post has the full video

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/05/23/sterling-brown-police-video/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.60c8cf12a036
They do? The full video is half an hour, I only see a minute and a half there.

The full video doesn't look great for the police though. Is that cop purposefully messing with his bodycam?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPSpmk7S4eg&feature=youtu.be
maybe not the full video, but I saw a 10 minute clip there.  It jumps ahead some, but it shows the whole beginning interaction where Brown is being a complete jackass.
It's hard to tell though, because the first officer at the scene has his police radio speaker placed to strategically obstruct both sound and vision.
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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #66 on: May 24, 2018, 03:36:47 PM »

Online kozlodoev

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Reading these comments reminds me why I rarely participate in this blog, every post about obvious over reach by police officers always has so many people blindly supporting the cops. I'm black & just think its awful that there seems to be some consensus that the cops creating a hostile incident over a freaking parking ticket is OK. They literally surrounded this man with like 10 cops & intimidated him gang style. This was gang level types of intimidation simple & plain. As a military veteran, I dont think I could ever trust the "authorities" in this country, they've proven to be dishonest far too many times, but even more troubling is the people cheering on the cops as they terrorize black citizens over petty minor infractions while we watch white mass murderers get taken in without a scratch on them, shoot, white mass murderers can even get the cops to buy them Burger King for free if they say their hungry

You have more people sympathetic to you on this blog than not. For some reason inexplicable to me, the white upper middle class always shows in defense of the police. I am white upper middle class. To others like me, I cannot stress enough how little your opinion matters when it comes to how the police treat black people in this country. You cannot possibly have lived it. Even Sterling Brown, who is far closer to the 1% than any of us are, and drives a car indicative of his socioeconomic class, is not immune to bigotry and profiling by the police. If you can't see a problem, well that's probably because you

literally cannot see one
But it's ok for black folks to tell me in no uncertain terms about my "privileged" white experience? Have they lived it?

Your premise is quite illustrative about why race relations in this country are going nowhere. No-one can tell anything to anyone.

Also, if my opinion doesn't matter, why the heck am I supposed to support this cause?

I'm sorry, but I'd bet that there aren't any institutional deleterious impacts on your life due to people mentioning white privilege. Racial profiling does negatively impact people of color. There is no such thing as racism against white people. There may be prejudice, but there lacks the institutional framework and civil power structure for actual racism to exist.
Cool. I don't particularly care to pitch in on that since my opinion is not important anyhow. Perhaps take your grievances to someone whose feedback you hold in higher esteem.
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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2018, 03:42:17 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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Reading these comments reminds me why I rarely participate in this blog, every post about obvious over reach by police officers always has so many people blindly supporting the cops. I'm black & just think its awful that there seems to be some consensus that the cops creating a hostile incident over a freaking parking ticket is OK. They literally surrounded this man with like 10 cops & intimidated him gang style. This was gang level types of intimidation simple & plain. As a military veteran, I dont think I could ever trust the "authorities" in this country, they've proven to be dishonest far too many times, but even more troubling is the people cheering on the cops as they terrorize black citizens over petty minor infractions while we watch white mass murderers get taken in without a scratch on them, shoot, white mass murderers can even get the cops to buy them Burger King for free if they say their hungry

You have more people sympathetic to you on this blog than not. For some reason inexplicable to me, the white upper middle class always shows in defense of the police. I am white upper middle class. To others like me, I cannot stress enough how little your opinion matters when it comes to how the police treat black people in this country. You cannot possibly have lived it. Even Sterling Brown, who is far closer to the 1% than any of us are, and drives a car indicative of his socioeconomic class, is not immune to bigotry and profiling by the police. If you can't see a problem, well that's probably because you

literally cannot see one
But it's ok for black folks to tell me in no uncertain terms about my "privileged" white experience? Have they lived it?

Your premise is quite illustrative about why race relations in this country are going nowhere. No-one can tell anything to anyone.

Also, if my opinion doesn't matter, why the heck am I supposed to support this cause?

I'm sorry, but I'd bet that there aren't any institutional deleterious impacts on your life due to people mentioning white privilege. Racial profiling does negatively impact people of color. There is no such thing as racism against white people. There may be prejudice, but there lacks the institutional framework and civil power structure for actual racism to exist.

So when I have to put down what race/gender on a business, college/job application, I shouldn't be a bit nervous I'm going to be passed over because there's too much white in the room already?

No such thing as racism against white people? Come one man, that's simply not true. There are literally quotas that give minorities advantages for fed programs. You get 0 points awarded for simply being white.



Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #68 on: May 24, 2018, 03:46:45 PM »

Online TomHeinsohn

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From Forbes magazine (2018):


-According to the New York Times, for every $100 in white family wealth, black families hold just $5.04.
   
-The Economic Policy Institute found that more than one in four black households have zero or negative net worth, compared to less than one in ten white families without wealth.

-The Institute for Policy Studies recent report The Road to Zero Wealth: How the Racial Divide is Hollowing Out the America’s Middle Class (RZW) showed that between 1983 and 2013, the wealth of the median black household declined 75 percent (from $6,800 to $1,700), and the median Latino household declined 50 percent (from $4,000 to $2,000). At the same time, wealth for the median white household increased 14 percent from $102,000 to $116,800.


Now what is the reason for this? Our Institutional structures? Our punitive carceral state that punishes people of color for being poor?
Or are black people just lazy and stupid?

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #69 on: May 24, 2018, 03:53:44 PM »

Offline Erik

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Reading these comments reminds me why I rarely participate in this blog, every post about obvious over reach by police officers always has so many people blindly supporting the cops. I'm black & just think its awful that there seems to be some consensus that the cops creating a hostile incident over a freaking parking ticket is OK. They literally surrounded this man with like 10 cops & intimidated him gang style. This was gang level types of intimidation simple & plain. As a military veteran, I dont think I could ever trust the "authorities" in this country, they've proven to be dishonest far too many times, but even more troubling is the people cheering on the cops as they terrorize black citizens over petty minor infractions while we watch white mass murderers get taken in without a scratch on them, shoot, white mass murderers can even get the cops to buy them Burger King for free if they say their hungry

Thank you for your service.

Did it start with 10 cops?

Or was it 1 cop... guy runs to his car.
2 cops: Who are you?
3 cops: etc

The longer you non comply in a police stop, the more cops will come. The more cops that come, the more chance you will be hurt because not everyone has to patience to wait for you to "remember your name."

This is a simple matter of following instructions. No one likes to be detained by cops, but unfortunately we have laws and when laws are broken, they have a few questions to ask to make sure that you aren't breaking additional laws. Just answer the questions, keep yourself in a harmless position (hands in clear sight, no sudden movements), and you'll be fine. The moment you run, struggle, or do any kind of bizarre behavior, the cop is immediately going to expect the absolute worst from you and will fire his weapon if there is a hint of danger.

The reason why the white mass murderer (I'm assuming you're referring to school shooter based on the burger king thing) is taken in without a scratch is because he complied with the instructions. He didn't run, argue, or make any sudden movements. He got to the ground. He didn't want to die. It's not a matter of does the police action fit the crime. It's a matter of "are you a danger to the police officer?"

The only reason that this is a racial thing at all is because minorities simply do not trust cops (as you have also admitted). Whatever the historical reasons for that may be (I will probably agree with you about mistreatment in general), it has to stop -- both sides need to take a step to the middle.

I am also a minority, for the record. I am also afraid of police because they have guns and guns scare me. The difference is that I don't act like a complete ass-hat when I'm pulled over. I want to get home to my family. I leave my hands on the wheel, answer all of the questions, get my ticket or warning, and move on with my life.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #70 on: May 24, 2018, 04:07:30 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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From Forbes magazine (2018):


-According to the New York Times, for every $100 in white family wealth, black families hold just $5.04.
   
-The Economic Policy Institute found that more than one in four black households have zero or negative net worth, compared to less than one in ten white families without wealth.

-The Institute for Policy Studies recent report The Road to Zero Wealth: How the Racial Divide is Hollowing Out the America’s Middle Class (RZW) showed that between 1983 and 2013, the wealth of the median black household declined 75 percent (from $6,800 to $1,700), and the median Latino household declined 50 percent (from $4,000 to $2,000). At the same time, wealth for the median white household increased 14 percent from $102,000 to $116,800.


Now what is the reason for this? Our Institutional structures? Our punitive carceral state that punishes people of color for being poor?
Or are black people just lazy and stupid?


No, black people are not lazy nor stupid. I would contend that the poverty problem with blacks is more to do with the breakdown of their family unit than some greedy white dudes behind the curtain pulling levers. This deterioration is affecting all races and as a result though, I believe our country is declining as a result.

This isn't an attack on blacks at all, I honestly blame the government more for this than anything. I believe the very nature of how our system is set up since the war on poverty began  has caused a cycle of dependence which has been bad for all poor segments of all the races. Blacks have been hit the hardest though. There is not encouragement for families to stick together and you have many people growing up without a father or mother to a lesser extent. Raising kids is very difficult and doing it on your own makes it even harder. Broken homes(not all single parent homes are broken, I'm talking on avg) produce broken kids.

Now, I'm not saying there arepeople in PD's, or other gov agencies around the country who are not racists. I just don't believe policy is being controlled by that messed up way of thinking. I don't believe the problems facing the black community are due to being held down by others.



Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #71 on: May 24, 2018, 04:30:12 PM »

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I am not black and I have never actually done anything wrong, but I have had more than my fair share of negative experiences with cops - especially when I was younger. I know we need police officers and the majority of them do a great job, but I can certainly understand why black people would be distru$tful of them. Sterling Brown not excitedly cooperating with the officers that night over a matter that did not need cooperation should be no surprise. Knowing he did nothing wrong, he also probably felt it was a good time to get a little bit of an attitude - I know I've been in the same position.

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #72 on: May 24, 2018, 04:31:34 PM »

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Quote
Had his hands in his pockets during an arrest and they tased him anyway. This is already becoming a top story. Not good.

The thread to this post should be " How to defy the police "

Quote
The officer's job was write a ticket and ask the guy to move the car if it was his. This cop wanted more, looked for more and made it become more. That's why he is being called out on this as an instigator and the reason for escalating things. Thing is the person it was done to is a professional athlete so it made the news. This stuff happens all over the USA all the time it's old school policing where citizens are victims to aggressive police that feel their job is to "put people in their place".

You don't think Sterling Brown's action contributed to this matter?    I am glad he did not get shot after he did not take his hands out of his pockets.   He was even dumb enough to say and that he had something in his pocket when asked about then the cops swooped in.  It could have been something, a gun, a joint, change who knows.   Maybe he was pretending to be tough for street cred.   But that comment at 14 seconds is what let to the police escalating the situation.   Because when your life is on the life, you're going to assume the worst.

Who tells the police to get back into their car and move along when questioned?   Sterling Brown.


BTW, I watched the Body Cam vids, not the edited version shown on CNN and ESPN trying to stir outrage.
I mentioned what Brown could have done in my other post. The responsibility still falls on the officer to do his job correctly. Which he didn't.
except he did.  He saw a terrible parking job in the middle of the night and then asked harmless necessary questions to the person who was going to car.  That person refused to answer those questions (initially) and gave the officer a lot of unneeded and unnecessary attitude.  The officer then called for back-up when Brown escalated the problem.  That is exactly what a police officer should do in that situation.
Write him a ticket and tell him to move the car. He isn't a detective, nor has Brown done any serious crime for inquiring the guys info. Just say "You are illegally parked I am giving a ticket". Why is that so hard? Shouldn't the officer be the bigger man? Bet if Brown was white it would have gone that way.
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Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #73 on: May 24, 2018, 04:34:24 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The video starts with the officer asking for identification while Brown is walking around to the driver's side. What right does any police officer have to just out of no where ask for ID from a person who is not breaking any law or shows no signs of be under the influence? Police are not allowed to just ask innocent people for ID.

And why were there 4 officers there for a simple parking ticket? I don't get that.

The officers were definitely culpable in that way. That said Brown was a moron for not simply answering the questions, producing his license, and following the officers directions. Then he could simply ask if the officers cam was on, get his answer and leave. Then he could have put in a complaint against the officer for illegal stop and search.

EDIT: I based this opinion on the 90 second video. I just watched the whole video. Again, I don't believe the officer had the right to ask for ID right off. He should have asked Brown if the car was his and then told him he was getting a parking ticket. My guess is if this happened, then nothing further would have happened.

Brown was still an idiot.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 05:10:47 PM by nickagneta »

Re: NBA player Sterling Brown tased by Milwaukee police
« Reply #74 on: May 24, 2018, 04:38:14 PM »

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Reading these comments reminds me why I rarely participate in this blog, every post about obvious over reach by police officers always has so many people blindly supporting the cops. I'm black & just think its awful that there seems to be some consensus that the cops creating a hostile incident over a freaking parking ticket is OK. They literally surrounded this man with like 10 cops & intimidated him gang style. This was gang level types of intimidation simple & plain. As a military veteran, I dont think I could ever trust the "authorities" in this country, they've proven to be dishonest far too many times, but even more troubling is the people cheering on the cops as they terrorize black citizens over petty minor infractions while we watch white mass murderers get taken in without a scratch on them, shoot, white mass murderers can even get the cops to buy them Burger King for free if they say their hungry

You have more people sympathetic to you on this blog than not. For some reason inexplicable to me, the white upper middle class always shows in defense of the police. I am white upper middle class. To others like me, I cannot stress enough how little your opinion matters when it comes to how the police treat black people in this country. You cannot possibly have lived it. Even Sterling Brown, who is far closer to the 1% than any of us are, and drives a car indicative of his socioeconomic class, is not immune to bigotry and profiling by the police. If you can't see a problem, well that's probably because you

literally cannot see one
But it's ok for black folks to tell me in no uncertain terms about my "privileged" white experience? Have they lived it?

Your premise is quite illustrative about why race relations in this country are going nowhere. No-one can tell anything to anyone.

Also, if my opinion doesn't matter, why the heck am I supposed to support this cause?

I'm sorry, but I'd bet that there aren't any institutional deleterious impacts on your life due to people mentioning white privilege. Racial profiling does negatively impact people of color. There is no such thing as racism against white people. There may be prejudice, but there lacks the institutional framework and civil power structure for actual racism to exist.

Well said!