Author Topic: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests  (Read 1327 times)

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Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2018, 04:03:05 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I used to love the NFL, every move like this makes me like it a little less.

I'd be really curious to see the demographics of the NFL. All their moves to me indicate that I am no longer a part of their core demographic and they don't really care about losing me as a viewer.

The NFL is not trending in the right direction in terms of ratings and their solution to this problem has seemed to be to pitch to their conservative base. I think this will be the death of the NFL, but maybe I say that because all their actions indicate they don't care much about what I think as a non-conservative.

It does seem interesting to me that the NBA has moved in a progressive direction, where the NFL has moved in a conservative one. I wonder how much it contributes to the NFL ratings declining and the NBA ratings increasing.

NFL is losing ratings and this played a part of it. I sincerely doubt the NFL is doing this to appease a certain ideology as much as it's trying to stop the bleeding. IF they gained viewers, they wouldn't have done anything to stop it. They had to wait and see the fallout before taking action. The thing is, for many this may be too little too late.

For me, I just want to watch football and not be told how unfair the US is by people who are living the epitome of the American dream.

Politics is everywhere, I'd like to be able to watch a sport without it being thrown in my face.

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It does seem interesting to me that the NBA has moved in a progressive direction, where the NFL has moved in a conservative one. I wonder how much it contributes to the NFL ratings declining and the NBA ratings increasing.

And yet the NBA doesnít allow protests during the anthem.  Itís a business decision made by employers to protect their product.

So in terms of the NBA not allowing protests of the anthem. They encourage/allow players and coaches to speak out against the current system in a way you would never see in the NFL. Can you picture an NFL coach talking like Kerr or Popovic did? I also heard that they discussed this with player's like LeBron to make sure that everyone was on the same page.

Arian Foster said it previously, but the NFL treats its players like employees while the NBA treats its players like partners.

I understand not wanting politics with your football. But do the protests really bother people that much? If I'm watching a game I usually am doing so on dvr or I turn it on at kick off. Protests for a minute before I turn on the game don't really affect me.

What bothers me is how players who protest like this are called antimilitary, unpatriotic or unamerican when the idea for this protest began when Kaepernic talked to active and former military members to get suggestions for how he could effectively protest. IMO it bothers me when people say kneeling for the anthem is anti-military when the idea to do so came from a member of the military. It feels like people who have no connection to the military are more bothered by this "attack" on the military than actual soldiers.

Those on the right are bothered by the kneeling for the anthem, while those on the left are bothered by the reaction that the kneeling causes. As someone on the left, it is easy to ignore the kneeling, but it's much harder to ignore the talk of the kneeling. So for a lot of people the act of kneeling is being hit over the head with politics, where to me the reaction to the kneeling is causing me to be hit over the head with politics.

Long term I don't think the NFL is destined to survive. Players have been getting bigger and stronger since football became a sport. With bigger and stronger athletes come bigger hits, with bigger hits become more injuries. I just don't see how the NFL can combat these growing injuries and the sport becomes significantly less fun when a lot of the best players get hurt.

The NFL is kind of screwed because one side gets upset about the kneeling and the other side gets upset about the reaction to the kneeling. It's hard to come up with a solution that leaves both sides satisfied.
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Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2018, 04:12:39 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Always thought the outrage over the kneeling was silly & stupid. 

Owners will do whatever they want to do, though.  There are ungodly amounts of money at play. We certainly know them to be overly concerned about public relations & image although I think they would've been better off to just let things be and fall off by the wayside rather than dredging this back up with this policy.

I'm also not sure they will fix their ratings woes.  I think that was more driven by poor play, the league turning into a pinball machine with constant tweeks to help offense to the absolute detriment of defensive play, way too many tv timeouts, and older faces retiring and the next generation (especially at the QB position) being not quite ready to fill those voids.



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Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2018, 05:30:17 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The funny part about all this is the networks almost never show the national anthem on television. The networks are usually too busy making money showing commercials. So I am not sure where people are so upset about seeing this on tv. It almost never happens.

Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2018, 05:31:45 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I used to love the NFL, every move like this makes me like it a little less.

I'd be really curious to see the demographics of the NFL. All their moves to me indicate that I am no longer a part of their core demographic and they don't really care about losing me as a viewer.

The NFL is not trending in the right direction in terms of ratings and their solution to this problem has seemed to be to pitch to their conservative base. I think this will be the death of the NFL, but maybe I say that because all their actions indicate they don't care much about what I think as a non-conservative.

No, you're wrong they listened to your ilk last year and had the distraction of kneeling all year and their ratings plummeted.    As far as demographics most of the owners are white,  a large percentage of the players are Afro-american   68%.   Here is a census of the NFL for reference

http://www.profootballlogic.com/articles/nfl-census-2016/

Note that the fan base if we take America as a whole is largely caucasian.  Whites constitute the majority of the U.S. population, with a total of about 245,532,000 or 77.7% of the population as of 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States

I think it is a factor in this matter.

Quote
It does seem interesting to me that the NBA has moved in a progressive direction, where the NFL has moved in a conservative one. I wonder how much it contributes to the NFL ratings declining and the NBA ratings increasing.

Politics should not be every where, I watch a game for the football not this political crap.  Maybe I am alone in this line of thought but I doubt it.

A UBS Securities analysis released Tuesday showed that 50 percent of U.S. consumers who watched less football in 2017 cited their disapproval of players refusing to stand during the national anthem, the most popular response and up from 32 percent last year.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/6/nfl-ratings-down-due-anthem-protests-survey/

Now the TV people who don't agree with the survey which had a 50 percent rating of people citing they did not players claim that all media had a decline.   Despite people specifically saying it was the refusing to stand.   So lies from the media once again, both sides do it.

https://www.bizjournals.com/newyork/news/2017/10/24/nfl-concedes-that-national-anthem-protests-hurt.html

The trouble of getting all your news from one side is you live in an echo chamber, that reinforces your view.

Quote
Always thought the outrage over the kneeling was silly & stupid.

As a veteran, I could not disagree more.   People have a right to say whatever they want to say.   Folks had a right to protest and folks had a right to vote with their wallets and not support the game because they did not like the antics.   

I don't see what the anthem had to do with the protests.  I think a big problem with the protesters is they are not able to connect protests with the cause.   It's like when people protested at the NBA games.   I am against police shooting innocents of any race, we are all human as I see it.   No one should be gunned down when they don't have a weapon.   I realize cops are making real time decisions that are life and death.   

But protesting the  LA Clipper NBA games had nothing to do with it and if I am honest, if someone protested a game that I paid for that had nothing to do with a police shooting.   That makes me inclined not to support a cause that I would normally support.   When the protest does not match the message then  it hurts the whole she-bang!

I think if people would have came out and said I am kneeling for the racial oppression that folks would understand it more.   But nope, it was an extension of Black Lives Matter, and the message sadly did not match the topic.   So a lot of people did not want to see it at their form of entertainment.   That does not bring people to a cause, and does the opposite.

Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2018, 06:43:15 PM »

Online TomHeinsohn

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Veterans and those in the military aren't the arbiters of what is patriotic and what is American

Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2018, 06:44:10 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Goon-dell is a coward! NFL should be ashamed of themselves having a disgrace like him be their front man.

Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2018, 06:57:35 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Quote
I used to love the NFL, every move like this makes me like it a little less.

I'd be really curious to see the demographics of the NFL. All their moves to me indicate that I am no longer a part of their core demographic and they don't really care about losing me as a viewer.

The NFL is not trending in the right direction in terms of ratings and their solution to this problem has seemed to be to pitch to their conservative base. I think this will be the death of the NFL, but maybe I say that because all their actions indicate they don't care much about what I think as a non-conservative.

No, you're wrong they listened to your ilk last year and had the distraction of kneeling all year and their ratings plummeted.    As far as demographics most of the owners are white,  a large percentage of the players are Afro-american   68%.   Here is a census of the NFL for reference

http://www.profootballlogic.com/articles/nfl-census-2016/

Note that the fan base if we take America as a whole is largely caucasian.  Whites constitute the majority of the U.S. population, with a total of about 245,532,000 or 77.7% of the population as of 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States

I think it is a factor in this matter.

Quote
It does seem interesting to me that the NBA has moved in a progressive direction, where the NFL has moved in a conservative one. I wonder how much it contributes to the NFL ratings declining and the NBA ratings increasing.

Politics should not be every where, I watch a game for the football not this political crap.  Maybe I am alone in this line of thought but I doubt it.

A UBS Securities analysis released Tuesday showed that 50 percent of U.S. consumers who watched less football in 2017 cited their disapproval of players refusing to stand during the national anthem, the most popular response and up from 32 percent last year.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/6/nfl-ratings-down-due-anthem-protests-survey/

Now the TV people who don't agree with the survey which had a 50 percent rating of people citing they did not players claim that all media had a decline.   Despite people specifically saying it was the refusing to stand.   So lies from the media once again, both sides do it.

https://www.bizjournals.com/newyork/news/2017/10/24/nfl-concedes-that-national-anthem-protests-hurt.html

The trouble of getting all your news from one side is you live in an echo chamber, that reinforces your view.

Quote
Always thought the outrage over the kneeling was silly & stupid.

As a veteran, I could not disagree more.   People have a right to say whatever they want to say.   Folks had a right to protest and folks had a right to vote with their wallets and not support the game because they did not like the antics.   

I don't see what the anthem had to do with the protests.  I think a big problem with the protesters is they are not able to connect protests with the cause.   It's like when people protested at the NBA games.   I am against police shooting innocents of any race, we are all human as I see it.   No one should be gunned down when they don't have a weapon.   I realize cops are making real time decisions that are life and death.   

But protesting the  LA Clipper NBA games had nothing to do with it and if I am honest, if someone protested a game that I paid for that had nothing to do with a police shooting.   That makes me inclined not to support a cause that I would normally support.   When the protest does not match the message then  it hurts the whole she-bang!

I think if people would have came out and said I am kneeling for the racial oppression that folks would understand it more.   But nope, it was an extension of Black Lives Matter, and the message sadly did not match the topic.   So a lot of people did not want to see it at their form of entertainment.   That does not bring people to a cause, and does the opposite.


Your point of view as a veteran has high standing with me.  The meaning/symbolism of the flag and the poignancy of the National Anthem HAS to have deeper meaning when you've risked and sacrificed (or have family members who have/ or are doing so).

My feelings about the flag and the anthem are less intense than many -- I consider myself a big fan of America -- but I am not prone to showing patriotism through deference to the flag/anthem.  I am always personally respectful, but I am not triggered emotionally when others aren't.  Just providing a POV to show the breadth of how people in this country can, and do, view things differently.   

One point I'd like to make is that whether the kneeling is or isn't connected to BLM, I think it is incorrect to think that the kneeling is the first or only attempt at bringing the conversation about on-going experiences with race relations to a national, and inter-racial, discussion.   I do think that when people feel unheard they rachet things up.   The kneeling was an insensitive strategy, but one that I think had the intent of saying "we really need to talk about this" rather than the intent of offending veterans.  My hope is that the offenses stop on both sides -- but before that will happen in earnest, all need to listen and be lisened to.

 

Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2018, 06:57:58 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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The funny part about all this is the networks almost never show the national anthem on television. The networks are usually too busy making money showing commercials. So I am not sure where people are so upset about seeing this on tv. It almost never happens.

Great point, I chuckled.
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Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2018, 07:00:24 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Veterans and those in the military aren't the arbiters of what is patriotic and what is American

Is anyone?

There is no definitive rule of what is patriotism or American. I donít think just because someone hangs a flag outside their home and takes their hat off for the anthem that they are automatically patriotic. But I do think burning flags and kneeling is inherently unpatriotic. If anyone was a voice of authority on patriotism, itís veterans. Do you know what itís like to actually risk your life defending a country? I certainly donít.

I think veterans and military personnel deserve a great deal of credit for the freedom we enjoy.
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Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2018, 07:08:28 PM »

Online TomHeinsohn

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Veterans and those in the military aren't the arbiters of what is patriotic and what is American

Is anyone?

There is no definitive rule of what is patriotism or American. I donít think just because someone hangs a flag outside their home and takes their hat off for the anthem that they are automatically patriotic. But I do think burning flags and kneeling is inherently unpatriotic. If anyone was a voice of authority on patriotism, itís veterans. Do you know what itís like to actually risk your life defending a country? I certainly donít.

I think veterans and military personnel deserve a great deal of credit for the freedom we enjoy.
My point is that it seems like a specific segment are declaring the military the sole arbiters of patriotism and what is American. The anthem is NOT a song for the military. It is a song for all Americans. I am an American. I am not offended when people kneel. My opinion carries the same weight as anybody else's. Don't use the military to state in a roundabout manner that you don't like the players' message.

Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2018, 07:28:12 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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Veterans and those in the military aren't the arbiters of what is patriotic and what is American

Is anyone?

There is no definitive rule of what is patriotism or American. I donít think just because someone hangs a flag outside their home and takes their hat off for the anthem that they are automatically patriotic. But I do think burning flags and kneeling is inherently unpatriotic. If anyone was a voice of authority on patriotism, itís veterans. Do you know what itís like to actually risk your life defending a country? I certainly donít.

I think veterans and military personnel deserve a great deal of credit for the freedom we enjoy.
My point is that it seems like a specific segment are declaring the military the sole arbiters of patriotism and what is American. The anthem is NOT a song for the military. It is a song for all Americans. I am an American. I am not offended when people kneel. My opinion carries the same weight as anybody else's. Don't use the military to state in a roundabout manner that you don't like the players' message.

I just think the "Kneelers" had a very poor strategy. Someone seems to have convinced them the country is mostly left-wingers, who think we're a horribly racist country and need to be reminded of this before a good number of Americans favorite past time. Seems like utter madness to me, but hey I'm just another guy in the stands drinking beer on Sundays.

I think the same thing happened at ESPN, which politicized a large amount of its programming only to see viewers leave in droves.

If Kap and the like want to get involved in politics, get involved in politics. Run for office. Become an activist. Do what you want on your time. But mucking up peoples entertainment is not the way to bring them to your side..

Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2018, 07:28:57 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Veterans and those in the military aren't the arbiters of what is patriotic and what is American

Is anyone?

There is no definitive rule of what is patriotism or American. I don’t think just because someone hangs a flag outside their home and takes their hat off for the anthem that they are automatically patriotic. But I do think burning flags and kneeling is inherently unpatriotic. If anyone was a voice of authority on patriotism, it’s veterans. Do you know what it’s like to actually risk your life defending a country? I certainly don’t.

I think veterans and military personnel deserve a great deal of credit for the freedom we enjoy.
My point is that it seems like a specific segment are declaring the military the sole arbiters of patriotism and what is American. The anthem is NOT a song for the military. It is a song for all Americans. I am an American. I am not offended when people kneel. My opinion carries the same weight as anybody else's. Don't use the military to state in a roundabout manner that you don't like the players' message.

I actually agree with you that no one person or segment of the population can be the arbiter of what is or is not patriotic.  And yes, your opinion carries as much weight as anyone else's.

And for the record, I actually tend to agree with the overall message that black people in America need to be treated more fairly by law enforcement.  And I'm not terribly bothered by the manner in which the NFL players were protesting neither.  I'm just not interested in hearing about it when I tune into watch a sporting event, that's not how I want to spend my leisure time.  Save it for another time, or if you can't, I'll stop watching your sport.

Here's the thing, while you might agree with what is being protested against this time, what if the next time they protest, it's something that you either disagree with, or are offended by?  Sports should be apolitical, or you risk alienating a segment of your fanbase.


Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2018, 07:40:32 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I'm glad that through all of this there were several owners that reached out to the players and have forged stronger bonds with them. These same owners have pledged financial support to player's causes among other things.

I believe the message got out and achieved its purpose despite the angst associated with it.

Work still remains, though.

People have GOT to vote.
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Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2018, 07:49:30 PM »

Offline gouki88

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If we watch sports to escape politics, the NFL needs to stop accepting money from the government for ostentatious displays of patriotism and the military.

If respect for the national anthem is becoming a partisan issue, then I don't think the NFL wants to be on the side of "we don't respect the anthem".

Just one man's opinion..

It's sad that people consider kneeling "disrespecting the anthem"

Would you have an issue if JJ Watt were kneeling "in reverence for the troops" during the anthem. Doubt it

But he isn't doing that is he?
As a white male, JJ Watt has no reason to do anything but fall in line and behave the way white America expects him to.
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Re: Goodell Releases Statement, New Policy on Protests
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2018, 08:36:24 PM »

Offline eja117

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The NFL has the players wearing pink every year for breast cancer awareness. So as long as the owners approve the players promoting something they are behind its okay to do it on game day but the pkayers can't promote something they are behind during that time. Seems hypocritical to me.


I would be very very curious what would happen if the league tried to make the players wear rainbow stuff to promote gay pride week or something and grow the sport.

I would hope the players would absolutely refuse and some of them definitely would. The second that happened I guarantee some of the people so mad at players for kneeling right now would suddenly be totally in their corner saying their rights were being violated (they'd be right.) And I guarantee you people supporting the players right now would call the ones refusing bigots.