Author Topic: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"  (Read 4050 times)

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Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2018, 11:50:09 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2018, 11:51:05 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Package Smart and SAC `19 and others for KAT. Get it done Ainge.
Why not Yabu/Bird/Nader and the Memphis pick for Anthony Davis?

I like that deal better.

Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2018, 11:55:18 AM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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Package Smart and SAC `19 and others for KAT. Get it done Ainge.
Why not Yabu/Bird/Nader and the Memphis pick for Anthony Davis?

I like that deal better.

lol
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2018, 12:01:00 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I think Marcus is gone. Some team will feel the need to give him 30+ mpg and $10m+ per year. I think his elite defense deserves a prominent role on a team in the league, though I'm not sure he should get paid in Boston.

I've liked him since the day I saw him on a mock draft. I liked how he stayed in school, and I didn't even mind him pushing the fan at OK St. I loved the draft pick (I didn't want Randle), and have thoroughly enjoyed watching Marcus Smart in his time in green.

That being said, I don't want the Celtics to pay him as if he's a top 6 player.

The question is, who? The only options that have space I can see are the Mavs, Kings, Bulls, or Hawks.

The Bulls 41 million in cap space will be tied up in their first round pick and resigning Lavine, Nwaba, and Vonleh. Besides, they already have Dunn and Lavine. Spending big on a player like Smart without having cornerstones set (and Smart is not a cornerstone) will set their roster construction back.

The Hawks have 16 million tied up in Schroeder and 18 million tied up in Bazemore. I highly doubt they would invest another 12-16 million in a non-shooter, especially considering the likelihood that their frontcourt moving forward would be Collins and Bagley (or another big). That kind of teambuilding would be broken.

The Mavs have a maximum of 23 million availabe (minus the 1st round cap hold, so like 18 million). But that number goes down if they resign Ferrell, Curry, McDermott, Noel, or Mejiri. Smart is a Texas kid, but I can't see them investing 12-16 million in a non-shooter next to Smith, especially considering the money they already have invested in Matthews and Barnes.

Finally, the Kings have about 25 million in cap space (minus the 1st round cap hold, so like 20 million). But that number goes down by 7 million if keep Caboclo's cap hold to try to resign him.

On top of that, there is an unusually high number of young promising players that are coming off of their rookie contracts (Gordon, Parker, Payton, Smart, Capella, Randle, Lavine, Nurkic, Hood, Hezonja). You could argue that many of those are more worthy of big RFA offers due to their upside and positional fit for those teams (Gordon, Hood, and Parker, for instance, would be a better fit on the Hawks, Bulls, Kings, or Mavs).

I just don't see anyone that the Cs are bidding against, unless it's a team that offers Smart a MLE (8.4 a year), which obviously Ainge would match.

Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2018, 12:12:32 PM »

Offline trickybilly

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I think Marcus is gone. Some team will feel the need to give him 30+ mpg and $10m+ per year. I think his elite defense deserves a prominent role on a team in the league, though I'm not sure he should get paid in Boston.

I've liked him since the day I saw him on a mock draft. I liked how he stayed in school, and I didn't even mind him pushing the fan at OK St. I loved the draft pick (I didn't want Randle), and have thoroughly enjoyed watching Marcus Smart in his time in green.

That being said, I don't want the Celtics to pay him as if he's a top 6 player.

The question is, who? The only options that have space I can see are the Mavs, Kings, Bulls, or Hawks.

The Bulls 41 million in cap space will be tied up in their first round pick and resigning Lavine, Nwaba, and Vonleh. Besides, they already have Dunn and Lavine. Spending big on a player like Smart without having cornerstones set (and Smart is not a cornerstone) will set their roster construction back.

The Hawks have 16 million tied up in Schroeder and 18 million tied up in Bazemore. I highly doubt they would invest another 12-16 million in a non-shooter, especially considering the likelihood that their frontcourt moving forward would be Collins and Bagley (or another big). That kind of teambuilding would be broken.

The Mavs have a maximum of 23 million availabe (minus the 1st round cap hold, so like 18 million). But that number goes down if they resign Ferrell, Curry, McDermott, Noel, or Mejiri. Smart is a Texas kid, but I can't see them investing 12-16 million in a non-shooter next to Smith, especially considering the money they already have invested in Matthews and Barnes.

Finally, the Kings have about 25 million in cap space (minus the 1st round cap hold, so like 20 million). But that number goes down by 7 million if keep Caboclo's cap hold to try to resign him.

On top of that, there is an unusually high number of young promising players that are coming off of their rookie contracts (Gordon, Parker, Payton, Smart, Capella, Randle, Lavine, Nurkic, Hood, Hezonja). You could argue that many of those are more worthy of big RFA offers due to their upside and positional fit for those teams (Gordon, Hood, and Parker, for instance, would be a better fit on the Hawks, Bulls, Kings, or Mavs).

I just don't see anyone that the Cs are bidding against, unless it's a team that offers Smart a MLE (8.4 a year), which obviously Ainge would match.

Pretty much any team that a) wants to create cap space (I realize some teams will struggle), and b) wants to make the first step towards building a hard-nosed, hustle-oriented team
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Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2018, 12:18:30 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I think Marcus is gone. Some team will feel the need to give him 30+ mpg and $10m+ per year. I think his elite defense deserves a prominent role on a team in the league, though I'm not sure he should get paid in Boston.

I've liked him since the day I saw him on a mock draft. I liked how he stayed in school, and I didn't even mind him pushing the fan at OK St. I loved the draft pick (I didn't want Randle), and have thoroughly enjoyed watching Marcus Smart in his time in green.

That being said, I don't want the Celtics to pay him as if he's a top 6 player.

The question is, who? The only options that have space I can see are the Mavs, Kings, Bulls, or Hawks.

The Bulls 41 million in cap space will be tied up in their first round pick and resigning Lavine, Nwaba, and Vonleh. Besides, they already have Dunn and Lavine. Spending big on a player like Smart without having cornerstones set (and Smart is not a cornerstone) will set their roster construction back.

The Hawks have 16 million tied up in Schroeder and 18 million tied up in Bazemore. I highly doubt they would invest another 12-16 million in a non-shooter, especially considering the likelihood that their frontcourt moving forward would be Collins and Bagley (or another big). That kind of teambuilding would be broken.

The Mavs have a maximum of 23 million availabe (minus the 1st round cap hold, so like 18 million). But that number goes down if they resign Ferrell, Curry, McDermott, Noel, or Mejiri. Smart is a Texas kid, but I can't see them investing 12-16 million in a non-shooter next to Smith, especially considering the money they already have invested in Matthews and Barnes.

Finally, the Kings have about 25 million in cap space (minus the 1st round cap hold, so like 20 million). But that number goes down by 7 million if keep Caboclo's cap hold to try to resign him.

On top of that, there is an unusually high number of young promising players that are coming off of their rookie contracts (Gordon, Parker, Payton, Smart, Capella, Randle, Lavine, Nurkic, Hood, Hezonja). You could argue that many of those are more worthy of big RFA offers due to their upside and positional fit for those teams (Gordon, Hood, and Parker, for instance, would be a better fit on the Hawks, Bulls, Kings, or Mavs).

I just don't see anyone that the Cs are bidding against, unless it's a team that offers Smart a MLE (8.4 a year), which obviously Ainge would match.

Pretty much any team that a) wants to create cap space (I realize some teams will struggle), and b) wants to make the first step towards building a hard-nosed, hustle-oriented team

Again, who? There is this ethereal sense that "some team" will make Smart an offer. I just can't find a reasonable path where one of the 30 actually NBA teams would want to make him an offer too high for us to match.

There is just less money out there and a bunch of promising young talents. There are also better guards.

Also, most teams that would want Smart can't afford to pair him with the guards they already have on their roster due to poor shooting and floor spacing.

Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2018, 12:20:47 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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So some people think Smart should/will take less money AND play a smaller role that he might elsewhere?  That's a little too much to ask IMO. 

The offers may not be there so he may not even have the opportunity but still.

Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2018, 01:21:47 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

I hadn't even thought of that. If I am a Suns fan, I love that core going forward. Booker/Ayton are your foundational pieces, with a supporting cast of Jackson (who knows about that shot, but there is hope,) Smart, and Warren. Add in whether Bender or Chriss proves they are the long term 4, and you have a nice core.

Smart as a plus passer, is a perfect compliment to Booker. He can become the effort leader of that squad, and just feed Booker and Ayton the rock.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2018, 01:30:14 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

I hadn't even thought of that. If I am a Suns fan, I love that core going forward. Booker/Ayton are your foundational pieces, with a supporting cast of Jackson (who knows about that shot, but there is hope,) Smart, and Warren. Add in whether Bender or Chriss proves they are the long term 4, and you have a nice core.

Smart as a plus passer, is a perfect compliment to Booker. He can become the effort leader of that squad, and just feed Booker and Ayton the rock.
Yeah.  I actually think they'd be one of the few landing spots for Rozier pre-draft as well, as they have 16 also.  Rozier for 16 straight up.  Boston can then hopefully get someone like Robert Williams to take a flyer on and then just brings back Smart to back-up Irving.

Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2018, 01:36:09 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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So some people think Smart should/will take less money AND play a smaller role that he might elsewhere?  That's a little too much to ask IMO. 

The offers may not be there so he may not even have the opportunity but still.
He deserves to get the best role for him and money. I am hopeful we give him a big one year offer so he can get a ring then get paid.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2018, 01:38:46 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

I hadn't even thought of that. If I am a Suns fan, I love that core going forward. Booker/Ayton are your foundational pieces, with a supporting cast of Jackson (who knows about that shot, but there is hope,) Smart, and Warren. Add in whether Bender or Chriss proves they are the long term 4, and you have a nice core.

Smart as a plus passer, is a perfect compliment to Booker. He can become the effort leader of that squad, and just feed Booker and Ayton the rock.
Yeah.  I actually think they'd be one of the few landing spots for Rozier pre-draft as well, as they have 16 also.  Rozier for 16 straight up.  Boston can then hopefully get someone like Robert Williams to take a flyer on and then just brings back Smart to back-up Irving.

Feels like Rozier for 16 is really poor value in a trade.. this is the 16 picks since 2000. Rozier is probably at worst the 3rd best play on that list and many of them didn't ever have notable contributions.. surely they have to get more than that..

2017 Justin Patton, Creighton Chicago Bulls
2016 Guerschon Yabusele, France Boston Celtics
2015 Terry Rozier, Louisville Boston Celtics
2014 Jusuf Nurkic, Bosnia Denver Nuggets
2013 Lucas Nogueira, Brazil Boston Celtics
2012 Royce White, Iowa St. Houston Rockets
2011 Nikola Vucevic, USC Philadelphia 76ers
2010 Luke Babbitt, Nevada Minnesota Timberwolves

2000s

2009 James Johnson, Wake Forest Chicago Bulls
2008 Marreese Speights, Florida Philadelphia 76ers
2007 Nick Young, Southern California Washington Wizards
2006 Rodney Carney, Memphis Chicago Bulls
2005 Joey Graham, Oklahoma State Toronto Raptors
2004 Kirk Snyder, Nevada Utah Jazz
2003 Troy Bell, Boston College Boston Celtics
2002 Jiri Welsch, Czech Republic Philadelphia 76ers
2001 Kirk Haston, Indiana Charlotte Hornets
2000 Hidayet Turkoglu, Turkey Sacramento Kings

Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2018, 01:41:28 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

I hadn't even thought of that. If I am a Suns fan, I love that core going forward. Booker/Ayton are your foundational pieces, with a supporting cast of Jackson (who knows about that shot, but there is hope,) Smart, and Warren. Add in whether Bender or Chriss proves they are the long term 4, and you have a nice core.

Smart as a plus passer, is a perfect compliment to Booker. He can become the effort leader of that squad, and just feed Booker and Ayton the rock.
Yeah.  I actually think they'd be one of the few landing spots for Rozier pre-draft as well, as they have 16 also.  Rozier for 16 straight up.  Boston can then hopefully get someone like Robert Williams to take a flyer on and then just brings back Smart to back-up Irving.

I wouldn't mind that plan, if we do in fact bring back Smart. I have liked Robert Williams since last year. His athleticism is a huge plus, and while he is a hair undersized (6'9) his wingspan is enormous. He moves his feet well, and he shows decent form on his jumper. I also think he is underrated as a passer. Seems like a perfect guy to mop up minutes behind Horford.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2018, 01:50:48 PM »

Offline Erik

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I would amend it to "he's probably going for the money."

If someone offers him $15 mil or more and the C's don't match, he's gone. His type of skills will translate to any basketball team. He doesn't need Brad Stevens for heart. He's going to be the same guy anywhere that he goes.

If the best he gets is $10 mil, he'll sign with the C's (I'm sure they'll match that).

I think he's going to get a 15+ offer for sure, though.

Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2018, 01:52:18 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I can see all of the Pacers/Atlanta/Nets/Kings having interest in Smart.

Because he's a RFA though I don't see any of them except the Kings willing to offer him enough that the C's wouldn't match. No one wants to overpay the 6th man type who cannot space the floor, except maybe the Kings because they are dumb.

I think he either figures out a compromise with the C's or takes the QO.
The Suns weren't on that list (because of cap holds), but they have room (if they let Payton go) and a real need at the position (assuming they draft Ayton #1).

I hadn't even thought of that. If I am a Suns fan, I love that core going forward. Booker/Ayton are your foundational pieces, with a supporting cast of Jackson (who knows about that shot, but there is hope,) Smart, and Warren. Add in whether Bender or Chriss proves they are the long term 4, and you have a nice core.

Smart as a plus passer, is a perfect compliment to Booker. He can become the effort leader of that squad, and just feed Booker and Ayton the rock.
Yeah.  I actually think they'd be one of the few landing spots for Rozier pre-draft as well, as they have 16 also.  Rozier for 16 straight up.  Boston can then hopefully get someone like Robert Williams to take a flyer on and then just brings back Smart to back-up Irving.

Feels like Rozier for 16 is really poor value in a trade.. this is the 16 picks since 2000. Rozier is probably at worst the 3rd best play on that list and many of them didn't ever have notable contributions.. surely they have to get more than that..

2017 Justin Patton, Creighton Chicago Bulls
2016 Guerschon Yabusele, France Boston Celtics
2015 Terry Rozier, Louisville Boston Celtics
2014 Jusuf Nurkic, Bosnia Denver Nuggets
2013 Lucas Nogueira, Brazil Boston Celtics
2012 Royce White, Iowa St. Houston Rockets
2011 Nikola Vucevic, USC Philadelphia 76ers
2010 Luke Babbitt, Nevada Minnesota Timberwolves

2000s

2009 James Johnson, Wake Forest Chicago Bulls
2008 Marreese Speights, Florida Philadelphia 76ers
2007 Nick Young, Southern California Washington Wizards
2006 Rodney Carney, Memphis Chicago Bulls
2005 Joey Graham, Oklahoma State Toronto Raptors
2004 Kirk Snyder, Nevada Utah Jazz
2003 Troy Bell, Boston College Boston Celtics
2002 Jiri Welsch, Czech Republic Philadelphia 76ers
2001 Kirk Haston, Indiana Charlotte Hornets
2000 Hidayet Turkoglu, Turkey Sacramento Kings
Maybe, but he only has 1 year left on his rookie contract and is pretty old for most 3 year vets.  I also think, this board has vastly over hyped Rozier (I got carried away on that as well) based on a very strong couple of week period that clearly wasn't sustainable.   

If Boston has decided it is only keeping Smart or Rozier, and Smart is the guy they want, then I don't see why they wouldn't move on from Rozier this summer when his trade value will be at its highest.  Maybe 16 by itself isn't enough, but I honestly can't see Rozier landing a top 10 pick like many seem to think is possible and I'd rather have something then see Rozier walk for nothing the following summer.  Especially if that something is a high level big man talent like Robert Williams (he has a high bust potential as well).

Re: Jackie Mac on Smart free agency: "he's going for the money"
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2018, 02:14:40 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Why do people think Smart's role will decrease next year?

The main beneficiary of the Hayward injury was Tatum, then Brown and to a certain extent Marcus Morris. Kyrie was healthy most of the year and Smart played as first guard off the bench. I don't see that changing this year.

Looking at the minutes spread for next year I see this:

Irving - 32
Brown - 32
Hayward - 32
Horford - 30
Theis - 20
Smart - 26
Morris - 12
Tatum - 20
Rozier - 16
Back up big - 8
Yab - 2
Semi - 10

Now clearly these can be debated, Morris and Rozier are low but you could cut Semi out of the rotation along with Yab. Equally this doesn't count for inevitable injuries that happen every year.