Author Topic: Why the Celtics needs to trade rozier in the off season or Ainge is an idiot  (Read 2892 times)

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Offline smokeablount

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If Ainge feels confident that he can develop Jaren Jackson Jr into the next Bosh, or Wendell Carter Jr into the next Horford, then it's very rational to consider trading Rozier when you factor in the young players on our bench, the draft picks we can't roster, and other considerations. 

Others like Bamba and I see potential, but his poor passing and 3pt shooting concerns me.  Carter had 13-9 and 2+ assists and blocks a game on 41% 3pt % on low volume, he at 19 reminds me of a 20 or 21 year old Horford.

Jackson had 3+ blocks per game and 1+ assist per game in limited minutes, had 15-10 per 36 mins, and seems to do everything at 6'11" from post up to shoot 3's off the dribble to drive in from the 3 point line for a dunk.  He's more raw than Carter, but could become a mini Embiid.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 10:26:03 AM by smokeablount »
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
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Offline KGBirdBias

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Ainge needs to draft Donte DeVincenzo from Villanova or Moritz Wagner from Michigan. They'd fit into this team well.

Offline mef730

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I agree with the sentiment that if we trade Rozier, getting a high pick back isnít worth the risk of keeping him for a season to contend fot a title next year......unless Danny has already targeted the next Tatum of 2018 draft night.

I think Rozier, SAC pick, and Boston 2018 1st can get us in the top 3-5 range....my question, is it worth the risk? Why not just run it back with T-Roz and if he walks, we have the SAC pick anyway to replace his production the following summer?

If Danny wants to make a talent consolidating trade, a proven young big like Towns is absolutely ideal.

If we can offer another KG-type pupu platter to Minny for KAT, I think itís a great ďall-inĒ with stacking every tradeable/expendable asset for an all-star.

T-Roz, Morris, SAC pick, Memphis pick for Towns. If we have to throw in a third 1st rounder, so be it.

No one is stopping a top 6 of Irving/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Towns/Tatum.....plus re-signing Smart, it just wouldnít even be fair.

Hee hee, hee hee, you said pupu.* :D

Mike



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Offline td450

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I didn't mean to suggest that a rookie center would allow the Celts to win it all next year. Having said that, they are clearly missing a rim protector/rebounder. As previously mentioned, they defend the perimeter superbly and could be even more aggressive at the three point line if they had someone to clean up mistakes. Additionally, they'll need to be able to deal with Embiid and Yannis going forward. If Bamba can learn to shoot threes, he checks the boxes that the Celts need going forward. It appears unlikely that they'll get another shot at a young big like him soon (next years draft doesn't have a lot of bigs). I'd go Rozier, Sacramento and maybe the Clippers pick for Bamba and a second rounder (cost controlled potential depth). If Bamba pans out, this team is set for some years to come.

I don't think the C's will go for Bamba. He really hasn't shown any NBA offensive potential at all. Read up on the frustrations Utah runs into in the playoffs with how the best teams easily neutralize Gobert. He may be a bit quicker, but he shows no sign he could punish anyone for defending him with a stretch 4. Thats what these bigger centers have to be able to do, or better teams will run you off the floor.

He just doesn't fit the modern NBA. Jaren Jackson is every bit as good a shot blocker, is a better defender overall, and he can shoot and finish over smaller players. Carter is big and very long and is a strong defender too, and he'd be impossible to defend with a wing. We want one of them instead.

Offline green_bballers13

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Mo Bamba? No Bamba.

Look at the best teams in the league. Where is there a Bamba type playing valuable minutes? Rudy Gobert got big time exposed in the playoffs, and Deandre/Drummond aren't good enough.

Offline Fafnir

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Ainge needs to draft Donte DeVincenzo from Villanova or Moritz Wagner from Michigan. They'd fit into this team well.
I feel like DeVincenzo will end up going sooner than 27, but who knows. Wagner seems to be "rising" but who knows, he could go in the first or second round.

Offline A Future of Stevens

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Mo Bamba? No Bamba.

Look at the best teams in the league. Where is there a Bamba type playing valuable minutes? Rudy Gobert got big time exposed in the playoffs, and Deandre/Drummond aren't good enough.

I think that if Gobert had faster foot speed, and flashed a 3pt shot while being a decent shooter already in the 10+ foot range, he wouldn't be as easily exposed. Bamba is also a better athlete than Gobert.
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Offline BitterJim

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Hayward and Kyrie coming off their injuries, you're looking at a minutes split something like this (this is very rough):

Irving (32)/Rozier (16)
Brown (16)/Smart (24)/Rozier (8 )
Hayward (24)/Brown (16)/Tatum (8 )
Tatum (24)/Hayward (8 )/Horford (16)
Horford (14)/Baynes (20)/Theis (14)



So are we trading Marcus Morris, or is he just not getting any minutes at all once Hayward comes back?  Or did you forget about him?

balancing minutes next year is going to be more difficult for Brad.

I think Morris gets traded. I see it coming down to needing to pick between letting Smart go, letting Baynes go, paying the luxury tax (which may also mean we can't re-sign Baynes if he wants the full MLE), and trading Morris. Since I think Morris adds less to the team when everyone is healthy, and in the event of an injury there are more people at his position.

If you go with the lineup I suggested, an injury to any Smart or Irving is easy to make up for (increase Smart and Rozier's minutes, play Brown at the 2 more, play Theis more, etc.). If you keep Morris and trade Rozier, you're stuck either playing the non-injured PG 48 mpg or having a Larkin/first round rookie/Rozier replacement playing significant minutes at PG. As for an injury to a wing, with no Morris on the roster you just play Jayson and Jaylen more at the 3, then give Theis, Smart, and Rozier more minutes.

I like the toughness Morris brings to the team this year, but with the jumps Jaylen and Jayson have made this season I just don't see his place on the team
Curious as to what you think we can get for Morris? Heís on a bargain contract, and unless Iím missing something thereís nothing new on that roster that Morris was exchanged for.

We'd get the ability to keep Smart and Baynes while staying under the cap line. The idea would be to trade him for something like a protected first, or use him to move up a bit in the draft.

Depending on what Smart gets, it seems like we'll need to use the full MLE if we want to keep Baynes, but that would hard cap us at the tax apron, meaning that shedding salary may be necessary. Between the progress Jaylen/Jayson have made and his higher salary relative to other non-starters on the team, he makes the most sense to move.

It sucks because his salary is a great deal, but we likely won't have the money for him I'd we want to keep Smart and Baynes (which we should)
I'm bitter.

Offline BitterJim

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Mo Bamba? No Bamba.

Look at the best teams in the league. Where is there a Bamba type playing valuable minutes? Rudy Gobert got big time exposed in the playoffs, and Deandre/Drummond aren't good enough.

The issue with big men being out there is when they can't defend on the perimeter and/or hurt spacing. Bigs that can switch onto guards and have to at least be respected from 3 are not a problem

I don't know if Bamba is that type of player (I haven't paid much/any attention to this draft), but Gobert, Drummond, and DeAndre Jordan are not (which is why they get exposed)
I'm bitter.

Offline keevsnick

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Hayward and Kyrie coming off their injuries, you're looking at a minutes split something like this (this is very rough):

Irving (32)/Rozier (16)
Brown (16)/Smart (24)/Rozier (8 )
Hayward (24)/Brown (16)/Tatum (8 )
Tatum (24)/Hayward (8 )/Horford (16)
Horford (14)/Baynes (20)/Theis (14)



So are we trading Marcus Morris, or is he just not getting any minutes at all once Hayward comes back?  Or did you forget about him?

balancing minutes next year is going to be more difficult for Brad.

I think Morris gets traded. I see it coming down to needing to pick between letting Smart go, letting Baynes go, paying the luxury tax (which may also mean we can't re-sign Baynes if he wants the full MLE), and trading Morris. Since I think Morris adds less to the team when everyone is healthy, and in the event of an injury there are more people at his position.

If you go with the lineup I suggested, an injury to any Smart or Irving is easy to make up for (increase Smart and Rozier's minutes, play Brown at the 2 more, play Theis more, etc.). If you keep Morris and trade Rozier, you're stuck either playing the non-injured PG 48 mpg or having a Larkin/first round rookie/Rozier replacement playing significant minutes at PG. As for an injury to a wing, with no Morris on the roster you just play Jayson and Jaylen more at the 3, then give Theis, Smart, and Rozier more minutes.

I like the toughness Morris brings to the team this year, but with the jumps Jaylen and Jayson have made this season I just don't see his place on the team
Curious as to what you think we can get for Morris? Heís on a bargain contract, and unless Iím missing something thereís nothing new on that roster that Morris was exchanged for.

We'd get the ability to keep Smart and Baynes while staying under the cap line. The idea would be to trade him for something like a protected first, or use him to move up a bit in the draft.

Depending on what Smart gets, it seems like we'll need to use the full MLE if we want to keep Baynes, but that would hard cap us at the tax apron, meaning that shedding salary may be necessary. Between the progress Jaylen/Jayson have made and his higher salary relative to other non-starters on the team, he makes the most sense to move.

It sucks because his salary is a great deal, but we likely won't have the money for him I'd we want to keep Smart and Baynes (which we should)

I don't think we will need the full MLE for Baynes. As good as he has been this is still a league with too many centers and not enough teams who wnat to pay a center.

Offline sdceltsfan

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I agree with the sentiment that if we trade Rozier, getting a high pick back isnít worth the risk of keeping him for a season to contend fot a title next year......unless Danny has already targeted the next Tatum of 2018 draft night.

I think Rozier, SAC pick, and Boston 2018 1st can get us in the top 3-5 range....my question, is it worth the risk? Why not just run it back with T-Roz and if he walks, we have the SAC pick anyway to replace his production the following summer?

If Danny wants to make a talent consolidating trade, a proven young big like Towns is absolutely ideal.

If we can offer another KG-type pupu platter to Minny for KAT, I think itís a great ďall-inĒ with stacking every tradeable/expendable asset for an all-star.

T-Roz, Morris, SAC pick, Memphis pick for Towns. If we have to throw in a third 1st rounder, so be it.

No one is stopping a top 6 of Irving/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Towns/Tatum.....plus re-signing Smart, it just wouldnít even be fair.
lol at the trade package for KAT
You donít think a starting caliber guard, a guy who becomes a 6th/7th man on that team in Morris, and two picks that are likely to fall in the favorable end of the lottery isnít a good starting offer for Towns?

Offline keevsnick

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I agree with the sentiment that if we trade Rozier, getting a high pick back isnít worth the risk of keeping him for a season to contend fot a title next year......unless Danny has already targeted the next Tatum of 2018 draft night.

I think Rozier, SAC pick, and Boston 2018 1st can get us in the top 3-5 range....my question, is it worth the risk? Why not just run it back with T-Roz and if he walks, we have the SAC pick anyway to replace his production the following summer?

If Danny wants to make a talent consolidating trade, a proven young big like Towns is absolutely ideal.

If we can offer another KG-type pupu platter to Minny for KAT, I think itís a great ďall-inĒ with stacking every tradeable/expendable asset for an all-star.

T-Roz, Morris, SAC pick, Memphis pick for Towns. If we have to throw in a third 1st rounder, so be it.

No one is stopping a top 6 of Irving/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Towns/Tatum.....plus re-signing Smart, it just wouldnít even be fair.
lol at the trade package for KAT
You donít think a starting caliber guard, a guy who becomes a 6th/7th man on that team in Morris, and two picks that are likely to fall in the favorable end of the lottery isnít a good starting offer for Towns?

They aren't trading KAT

Offline Sophomore

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Mo Bamba? No Bamba.

Look at the best teams in the league. Where is there a Bamba type playing valuable minutes? Rudy Gobert got big time exposed in the playoffs, and Deandre/Drummond aren't good enough.

The issue with big men being out there is when they can't defend on the perimeter and/or hurt spacing. Bigs that can switch onto guards and have to at least be respected from 3 are not a problem

I don't know if Bamba is that type of player (I haven't paid much/any attention to this draft), but Gobert, Drummond, and DeAndre Jordan are not (which is why they get exposed)

Yes to all this. Jaren Jackson is the guy who interests me. Good defensive instinct and drive, capable of hitting a college 3. I can't gauge whether he has footspeed at, say the Al Horford level, but it looks like he might.

I guess that, in fairness, Joel Embiid might still be playing if he had a better supporting cast and made better decisions about shot selection. He's the rare 7'-plus player capable of defending well enough that you can't take him out of the game with a pick and roll and he can be devastating if he's allowed to roam in the paint. Thon Maker *might* be that kind of guy, too, although he's obviously much more limited on offense. I don't see Bamba as being in that league, but I'll admit I haven't watched much.

Offline timriffic

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Rozier and the C's 1st rd this year to move into the top 10 2018 draft
I don't believe C's need to include Sac's 2019 pick, maybe throw in a  2nd rounder to sweeten it

Offline Roy H.

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Itís impossible to say whether it makes sense to trade Rozier now. There are multiple factors, the two biggest being:

* Whatís the return?
* Does Smart come back?


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