Author Topic: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract  (Read 1621 times)

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Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2018, 01:53:04 PM »

Offline liam

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If Smart gets offered 4 years for 40 million he should jump on that. With the reckless way he plays he'll be very lucky to make it through a full season and not get hurt. A bird in the hand and all. Look at Noel, turning down that long term contact and what'll he get now? 

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2018, 02:08:01 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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It only takes one team to outbid us, but who would that be?

Seriously, who? Here is the list of teams (listed most cap space to least) with enough cap space to offer him more than the MLE listed (cap space is the maximum possible space, including rescinding all of the teams current cap holds, which is normally unlikely).

Lakers? Nope, bigger fish to fry and they don't want to get another non-shooter in the backcourt with Ball.
Bulls? They already have Dunn and Lavine and rebuilding teams don't have a great use for a player like Smart.
Sixers? Bigger fish to fry and they don't want another non-shooter next to Simmons.
Hawks? Rebuilding team that already has lots of cash invested in Schroeder and Bazemore. Also, Dedmon, Muscala and their 1st will take away the cap space they have.
Kings? They might spend a lot of money on a young player, but can they really count on the shooting of a Fox/Smart backcourt, especially if they draft a big guy?
Mavs? More on this in a second.
Rockets? They are targeting James and resigning Paul this off-season. Not enough cap space.
Nets? Okafor, Harris, and/or Stauskas will likely all be retained first, and after that there isn't enough cap space for Smart. On top of that, they are invested in Lin, Russell, Crabbe, and Lavert.
Magic? Gordon, Hezonja, and their 1st will eat into their cap space first.
Jazz? Exum, Udoh, and O'neale will eat into the cap space they could offer to Smart.
Suns? Payton, Len, Williams, and their 1st will eat into the amount they could offer Smart.

Honestly, I cannot see any team that has the cap space to offer Smart more than the MLE actually making an offer OTHER THAN THE MAVS.

Smart is from Texas. Although Cuban has never targeted RFA in FA, Smart could be one of the first. They'd have to rescind the cap holds of Ferrell, Curry, McDermott, Noel, and Mejiri.

Also, they have to ask if Smith is a good fit with Smart. They also have a lot of money invested in Matthews for one more year.

I've argued that the Mavs are a dark horse team in FA this year. DeAndre Jordan could finally wind up there, and they may be one of the teams targeting Leonard and/or George (trade package of Barnes + the 5th pick?).

The Mavs, Hawks, Bulls, and Nets might decide that Smart is their guy, rescind all other cap holds, and offer him a big contract, but I find that unlikely considering their roster construct.

Seriously, I'm trying to figure out who we are outbidding for Smart's services. If a different team offers him their MLE, Ainge would match that in a second.

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2018, 02:49:33 PM »

Offline aefgogreen

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It only takes one team to outbid us, but who would that be?

Seriously, who? Here is the list of teams (listed most cap space to least) with enough cap space to offer him more than the MLE listed (cap space is the maximum possible space, including rescinding all of the teams current cap holds, which is normally unlikely).

Lakers? Nope, bigger fish to fry and they don't want to get another non-shooter in the backcourt with Ball.
Bulls? They already have Dunn and Lavine and rebuilding teams don't have a great use for a player like Smart.
Sixers? Bigger fish to fry and they don't want another non-shooter next to Simmons.
Hawks? Rebuilding team that already has lots of cash invested in Schroeder and Bazemore. Also, Dedmon, Muscala and their 1st will take away the cap space they have.
Kings? They might spend a lot of money on a young player, but can they really count on the shooting of a Fox/Smart backcourt, especially if they draft a big guy?
Mavs? More on this in a second.
Rockets? They are targeting James and resigning Paul this off-season. Not enough cap space.
Nets? Okafor, Harris, and/or Stauskas will likely all be retained first, and after that there isn't enough cap space for Smart. On top of that, they are invested in Lin, Russell, Crabbe, and Lavert.
Magic? Gordon, Hezonja, and their 1st will eat into their cap space first.
Jazz? Exum, Udoh, and O'neale will eat into the cap space they could offer to Smart.
Suns? Payton, Len, Williams, and their 1st will eat into the amount they could offer Smart.

Honestly, I cannot see any team that has the cap space to offer Smart more than the MLE actually making an offer OTHER THAN THE MAVS.

Smart is from Texas. Although Cuban has never targeted RFA in FA, Smart could be one of the first. They'd have to rescind the cap holds of Ferrell, Curry, McDermott, Noel, and Mejiri.

Also, they have to ask if Smith is a good fit with Smart. They also have a lot of money invested in Matthews for one more year.

I've argued that the Mavs are a dark horse team in FA this year. DeAndre Jordan could finally wind up there, and they may be one of the teams targeting Leonard and/or George (trade package of Barnes + the 5th pick?).

The Mavs, Hawks, Bulls, and Nets might decide that Smart is their guy, rescind all other cap holds, and offer him a big contract, but I find that unlikely considering their roster construct.

Seriously, I'm trying to figure out who we are outbidding for Smart's services. If a different team offers him their MLE, Ainge would match that in a second.

The Kings are my nightmare.  We don't need Smart helping them win any games.

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2018, 02:53:36 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Smart is what we all know him to be - infuriating then a hero.

What I noticed last night: at the very end of the game Marcus started picking up LBJ, after a few plays LeBron engineered some switches so he’d be guarded by Jaylen instead. That spoke volumes.

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2018, 03:38:17 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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It only takes one team to outbid us, but who would that be?

Seriously, who? Here is the list of teams (listed most cap space to least) with enough cap space to offer him more than the MLE listed (cap space is the maximum possible space, including rescinding all of the teams current cap holds, which is normally unlikely).

Lakers? Nope, bigger fish to fry and they don't want to get another non-shooter in the backcourt with Ball.
Bulls? They already have Dunn and Lavine and rebuilding teams don't have a great use for a player like Smart.
Sixers? Bigger fish to fry and they don't want another non-shooter next to Simmons.
Hawks? Rebuilding team that already has lots of cash invested in Schroeder and Bazemore. Also, Dedmon, Muscala and their 1st will take away the cap space they have.
Kings? They might spend a lot of money on a young player, but can they really count on the shooting of a Fox/Smart backcourt, especially if they draft a big guy?
Mavs? More on this in a second.
Rockets? They are targeting James and resigning Paul this off-season. Not enough cap space.
Nets? Okafor, Harris, and/or Stauskas will likely all be retained first, and after that there isn't enough cap space for Smart. On top of that, they are invested in Lin, Russell, Crabbe, and Lavert.
Magic? Gordon, Hezonja, and their 1st will eat into their cap space first.
Jazz? Exum, Udoh, and O'neale will eat into the cap space they could offer to Smart.
Suns? Payton, Len, Williams, and their 1st will eat into the amount they could offer Smart.

Honestly, I cannot see any team that has the cap space to offer Smart more than the MLE actually making an offer OTHER THAN THE MAVS.

Smart is from Texas. Although Cuban has never targeted RFA in FA, Smart could be one of the first. They'd have to rescind the cap holds of Ferrell, Curry, McDermott, Noel, and Mejiri.

Also, they have to ask if Smith is a good fit with Smart. They also have a lot of money invested in Matthews for one more year.

I've argued that the Mavs are a dark horse team in FA this year. DeAndre Jordan could finally wind up there, and they may be one of the teams targeting Leonard and/or George (trade package of Barnes + the 5th pick?).

The Mavs, Hawks, Bulls, and Nets might decide that Smart is their guy, rescind all other cap holds, and offer him a big contract, but I find that unlikely considering their roster construct.

Seriously, I'm trying to figure out who we are outbidding for Smart's services. If a different team offers him their MLE, Ainge would match that in a second.
Just want to say that regarding the teams you claim won't have space because they have to sign their players first, realize if those players have Bird rights, the team could always sign Smart first, if there is space with the cap holds, then go over the cap to resign those players.

Not going to look at which teams could do this but it is something you might want to reconsider with this list.

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2018, 03:45:50 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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It only takes one team to outbid us, but who would that be?

Seriously, who? Here is the list of teams (listed most cap space to least) with enough cap space to offer him more than the MLE listed (cap space is the maximum possible space, including rescinding all of the teams current cap holds, which is normally unlikely).

Lakers? Nope, bigger fish to fry and they don't want to get another non-shooter in the backcourt with Ball.
Bulls? They already have Dunn and Lavine and rebuilding teams don't have a great use for a player like Smart.
Sixers? Bigger fish to fry and they don't want another non-shooter next to Simmons.
Hawks? Rebuilding team that already has lots of cash invested in Schroeder and Bazemore. Also, Dedmon, Muscala and their 1st will take away the cap space they have.
Kings? They might spend a lot of money on a young player, but can they really count on the shooting of a Fox/Smart backcourt, especially if they draft a big guy?
Mavs? More on this in a second.
Rockets? They are targeting James and resigning Paul this off-season. Not enough cap space.
Nets? Okafor, Harris, and/or Stauskas will likely all be retained first, and after that there isn't enough cap space for Smart. On top of that, they are invested in Lin, Russell, Crabbe, and Lavert.
Magic? Gordon, Hezonja, and their 1st will eat into their cap space first.
Jazz? Exum, Udoh, and O'neale will eat into the cap space they could offer to Smart.
Suns? Payton, Len, Williams, and their 1st will eat into the amount they could offer Smart.

Honestly, I cannot see any team that has the cap space to offer Smart more than the MLE actually making an offer OTHER THAN THE MAVS.

Smart is from Texas. Although Cuban has never targeted RFA in FA, Smart could be one of the first. They'd have to rescind the cap holds of Ferrell, Curry, McDermott, Noel, and Mejiri.

Also, they have to ask if Smith is a good fit with Smart. They also have a lot of money invested in Matthews for one more year.

I've argued that the Mavs are a dark horse team in FA this year. DeAndre Jordan could finally wind up there, and they may be one of the teams targeting Leonard and/or George (trade package of Barnes + the 5th pick?).

The Mavs, Hawks, Bulls, and Nets might decide that Smart is their guy, rescind all other cap holds, and offer him a big contract, but I find that unlikely considering their roster construct.

Seriously, I'm trying to figure out who we are outbidding for Smart's services. If a different team offers him their MLE, Ainge would match that in a second.
Just want to say that regarding the teams you claim won't have space because they have to sign their players first, realize if those players have Bird rights, the team could always sign Smart first, if there is space with the cap holds, then go over the cap to resign those players.

Not going to look at which teams could do this but it is something you might want to reconsider with this list.

In order to resign them with Bird rights, they would not be allowed to keep their cap holds. All of the teams in the above list are listed with as having enough cap space with all cap holds removed.

Any that I mentioned I thought would be enough to take enough cap space that they would not be able to sign Smart.

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2018, 03:52:44 PM »

Offline td450

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I really don't get the thought that Smart shoots too much. In starter minutes he shoots 8-12 times a game, that's fine.

I'd love if he didn't take pull up jumpers when the whole team stops moving which happens once or twice a game, but that's a collective issue of a play breaking down and no one reseting quickly.
He shoots too much because he is perhaps the worst shooter in the history of the game.  If he was shooting layups, sure, shoot away, but someone who 4 years in shooting 4.2 3's a game and hits them at just 29.3% shouldn't shoot them (or at least not anywhere near the rate he does).  It takes away from his overall game and value.
Over the past 2 years, Marcus smart has taken 9.5 shots per game and made about 36.4% of those shots.  I think we can all agree that if he were shooting 46.4%, we'd be fine with that.  With only 9.5 shot attempts, he's basically costing the team ONE MISSED SHOT per game.  I think he more than makes up for that one missed shot with all the other things he does.

You could rationalize the difference between us and the Phoenix Suns with similar math.

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2018, 04:02:10 PM »

Offline feckless

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Didn't Marcus try his "strong post up move" on Tristan Thompson last night and get laughably rejected.  Are you serious Marcus?

I hope my memory is wrong, but Marcus's sense of good offense is too often ridiculous.
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2018, 04:05:10 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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We talk algo about his winning plays, but we saw the flip side last night where he can be a complete offensive zero. Literally one of tge b worst offensive games i have seen. He may be a great end of game player but how much is he gonna play in crunch time next year if we are healthy. Im not 5akihg a young guy or all star out to play smart. 40/4 sounds right to me, if he takes the QO thats fine too. Put off tax concerns a year.

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2018, 04:10:49 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I like Smart, but he shoots way too many 3's and he gets too emotional (some emotion is fine, but he goes way overboard).  Take the end of the game last night, C's had no real shot at winning, but there was Smart being super and overly aggressive with James.  I was really worried he was going to go to far, get suspended, and cost Boston any shot at winning the series.  I don't think he can tone it down, which is the real problem.  He reminds me a lot of Rondo.  Does a lot of the little things, but is just so immature on the court, and unlike Rondo, he doesn't know when to stop shooting.

Really? C'mon man... Every team has guys like Smart or Rondo, they call them instigators and they aren't a negative. You don't worry about them because they add more than they take away.

I think it makes sense for the Celts and for Smart to do a one year deal.

They'll sort out what to do with Terry and Marcus after next season (when hopefully they're coming off a Finals run).


Look, Smart is a great player and he makes so many clutch plays.  He's basically the Celts' version of Iguodala.

That said, how much does it make sense to pay for the 6th best player on your team?

The Celts need to prioritize Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Horford.  Signing Smart should not jeopardize their ability to pay and keep all of those guys moving forward.

I suppose as long as Smart is a trade asset on his next deal it doesn't matter.  They can move him if/when Jaylen / Tatum need to get paid if necessary.

I know that seems like an obvious statement, that he isn't better than Kyrie, Brown etc. However that kind of player is what pushes you over the line as a championship team, so yes I do pay for him. The salary cap isn't that awful, you can pay the 6th guy. And with the calibre of the 5 in front, you don't need to be as deep as we would have been this year if healthy.

The reason I work out how to lock him up now is I have the control. If I slightly overpay then I have the ability to move Smart when the time comes, if I have to give him the extra year to sign or a player option then I do it. Obviously don't go ridiculous over it but having him walk next summer is bad for this team.

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2018, 04:29:20 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I love Smart and hope they keep him, but the C's will be so much better off when they can finally say their best lineup does not have him on the floor and he's truly a bench 6th man energy guy.

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2018, 05:01:36 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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It only takes one team to outbid us, but who would that be?

Seriously, who? Here is the list of teams (listed most cap space to least) with enough cap space to offer him more than the MLE listed (cap space is the maximum possible space, including rescinding all of the teams current cap holds, which is normally unlikely).

Lakers? Nope, bigger fish to fry and they don't want to get another non-shooter in the backcourt with Ball.
Bulls? They already have Dunn and Lavine and rebuilding teams don't have a great use for a player like Smart.
Sixers? Bigger fish to fry and they don't want another non-shooter next to Simmons.
Hawks? Rebuilding team that already has lots of cash invested in Schroeder and Bazemore. Also, Dedmon, Muscala and their 1st will take away the cap space they have.
Kings? They might spend a lot of money on a young player, but can they really count on the shooting of a Fox/Smart backcourt, especially if they draft a big guy?
Mavs? More on this in a second.
Rockets? They are targeting James and resigning Paul this off-season. Not enough cap space.
Nets? Okafor, Harris, and/or Stauskas will likely all be retained first, and after that there isn't enough cap space for Smart. On top of that, they are invested in Lin, Russell, Crabbe, and Lavert.
Magic? Gordon, Hezonja, and their 1st will eat into their cap space first.
Jazz? Exum, Udoh, and O'neale will eat into the cap space they could offer to Smart.
Suns? Payton, Len, Williams, and their 1st will eat into the amount they could offer Smart.

Honestly, I cannot see any team that has the cap space to offer Smart more than the MLE actually making an offer OTHER THAN THE MAVS.

Smart is from Texas. Although Cuban has never targeted RFA in FA, Smart could be one of the first. They'd have to rescind the cap holds of Ferrell, Curry, McDermott, Noel, and Mejiri.

Also, they have to ask if Smith is a good fit with Smart. They also have a lot of money invested in Matthews for one more year.

I've argued that the Mavs are a dark horse team in FA this year. DeAndre Jordan could finally wind up there, and they may be one of the teams targeting Leonard and/or George (trade package of Barnes + the 5th pick?).

The Mavs, Hawks, Bulls, and Nets might decide that Smart is their guy, rescind all other cap holds, and offer him a big contract, but I find that unlikely considering their roster construct.

Seriously, I'm trying to figure out who we are outbidding for Smart's services. If a different team offers him their MLE, Ainge would match that in a second.
Just want to say that regarding the teams you claim won't have space because they have to sign their players first, realize if those players have Bird rights, the team could always sign Smart first, if there is space with the cap holds, then go over the cap to resign those players.

Not going to look at which teams could do this but it is something you might want to reconsider with this list.

In order to resign them with Bird rights, they would not be allowed to keep their cap holds. All of the teams in the above list are listed with as having enough cap space with all cap holds removed.

Any that I mentioned I thought would be enough to take enough cap space that they would not be able to sign Smart.
Ah... TP for clarifying

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2018, 05:10:41 PM »

Online dreamgreen

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I can see Smart at $10m a year anything more than that is an OVERPAY! If this team is healthy he will get 20 minutes a game. People forget with Irving and Hayward are healthy they are going to take 70 mpg from the other guys!!

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2018, 05:19:35 PM »

Online Birdman

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I can see Cuban throwing some serious money to free agents this year
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Lowe and Simmons on Smart's Contract
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2018, 05:21:44 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I can see Smart at $10m a year anything more than that is an OVERPAY! If this team is healthy he will get 20 minutes a game. People forget with Irving and Hayward are healthy they are going to take 70 mpg from the other guys!!
Maybe not 70 but your point is well taken. Personally I think Stevens is going to keep his best players at around 30-32 MPG. Should be interesting to see how Stevens manages it but, yeah, I could see everyone playing less minutes next year. Some maybe a lot and that could be Smart if Rozier improves his shooting again and becomes an efficient 11-13 ppg level.