Author Topic: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition  (Read 7276 times)

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Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2018, 09:43:21 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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This seems like it is the whiny post. We should be happy with the Celtics in their current position, but instead, let's focus on how unfair it is that the NBA lets all of these good players play with each other?

Regardless of $, this isn't the first super team in league history. How do you think Knicks fans liked the '86 Celtics?

Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2018, 09:54:26 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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GSW played within the rules and did what any smart team would do to under the circumstances. KD did not do what any player would do under the circumstances.  He opted to take less to play for a team that was already a super team.  He’s entitled to do as he wants, but I wish he had stayed with OKC.   If unhappy there I don’t blame im for leaving but to go to your already better competitor and for less $$ is low.   I felt that way about Ray Allen too. But even more irritating given KDs status as an MVP caliber player.  He’s within his rights of course but he left a lot of fans disappointed in him.

Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2018, 11:33:02 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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all those that think this is simply about him going to a team of his choice are ignoring the ‘cap manipulating aspect’ of taking less money to build the super team....the league can definitely and should stop that.

Kevin Durant, "cap manipulator." Riiiiggghhhhhtttt.

And what exactly should the NBA do to stop people from taking a lower salary for a better job? How would that work? There is no possible method for such a thing.


I mean, there are certainly conceivable ways they could prevent players taking less money, they're just not likely or necessarily desirable.

The league could, for example, have some kind of arbitration process by which a reasonable range of annual salary is determined for any given free agent, and players / teams may only agree to terms within that range during the normal free agency period.  Only after the free agent period has concluded (i.e. July/August) would a player be able to sign for less than the stated range (i.e. for the veteran minimum).

That's an extreme example of how it could work, but it's conceivable.  It'll never happen, but it's not an impossible thing either.


Anyway, we usually laud players for taking less for the sake of winning and for the better of the team, except when it's perceived to create a competitive imbalance that is unsurmountable for virtually every other team in the league to overcome.

I tend to think that a superteam that is obviously far more talented than every other team, or almost every other team, is not a bad thing for the league per se, but it becomes a big problem if that superpowered team is able to stay together for more than a year or two.
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Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2018, 11:48:42 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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What amazes me most about this is it seems every player on the Warriors (except Curry) is taking less money then they could get somewhere else.   


Until one of them gets tired of being under-payed, it will be hard for other teams to catch up.   



Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2018, 11:52:00 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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What amazes me most about this is it seems every player on the Warriors (except Curry) is taking less money then they could get somewhere else.   


Until one of them gets tired of being under-payed, it will be hard for other teams to catch up.

Not necessarily true. Didn't both Thompson and Green sign max contracts? It's just the salary cap has gone up since then.

Iggy is getting paid a lot of money too.

Durant is not getting max money right now, but the thinking has been he will get a Curry contract this off-season.

Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2018, 11:55:11 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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What amazes me most about this is it seems every player on the Warriors (except Curry) is taking less money then they could get somewhere else.   


Until one of them gets tired of being under-payed, it will be hard for other teams to catch up.

Not necessarily true. Didn't both Thompson and Green sign max contracts? It's just the salary cap has gone up since then.

Iggy is getting paid a lot of money too.

Durant is not getting max money right now, but the thinking has been he will get a Curry contract this off-season.


Reports are that Klay is talking about contract extension right now instead of hitting FA.   That will save GS money. 

Iggy could have gotten more money from another team. 

Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2018, 11:56:11 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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Look no further than the logo. It’s no coincidence that when Jerry West joined the Warriors front office they built a super team while tha Lakers crumbled.

Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2018, 11:57:05 AM »

Offline Diggles

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Everyone can poke Durrant and say how weak the move was.... but most of those people are anti Warriors fans anyway.   

Free Agents move to California all the time to take less money....whats worse to play for money or championships? 
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Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2018, 12:01:06 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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level in the league..the NBA should have found a way to nix him signing with GSW...At the time he signed it seemed they did not need him, but looks like they would be ‘human’ without him. For those who think the league shouldn’t interfere what if Kebron signs with GSW after this season.

Yeesh, I have to say I disagree with all of this.

1. No, the league should not have "found a way to nix" Durant signing with GSW.  They had cap space, Durant was a free agent, and all parties involved played by the rules.  GSW was both lucky and smart, but nothing they did was unfair.

2. GSW had just lost in the Finals, and one could argue it was the signing of Durant that made the difference between them beating losing to the Cavs or beating them.  The year GSW beat the Cavs, the Cavs were without both Irving and Love during the Finals.  So, in that regard, GSW did in fact need Durant.

3. If LeBron wants to sign with GSW, I see no reason the league should interfere, as long as neither side does anything against the rules.  Free agents are free to sign with whichever team they want, for any salary the rules allow for.  The players union might protest if LeBron did something like take the minimum, but if he really wanted to press the matter there is nothing anyone can, or should, do (aside from mocking him).

Honestly, Durant can go on to win 5 rings, but no one will care. No one will respect it.
 

I absolutely respect Durant for choosing to ditch Westbrook and join a team that actually plays as a team.  And as I said above, Durant was the difference between GSW losing to a healthy Cavs team the year before without him, and then beating them once he came along.  He earned his Finals MVP.

Yeah I disagree. It's fine to ditch Westbrook and OKC if you felt you were being held back there. But again, to join a 73-9 team that beat your team in the WCF. Weak. His legacy will always be that no matter how many rings he wins.
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Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2018, 12:01:36 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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What amazes me most about this is it seems every player on the Warriors (except Curry) is taking less money then they could get somewhere else.   


Until one of them gets tired of being under-payed, it will be hard for other teams to catch up.

Not necessarily true. Didn't both Thompson and Green sign max contracts? It's just the salary cap has gone up since then.

Iggy is getting paid a lot of money too.

Durant is not getting max money right now, but the thinking has been he will get a Curry contract this off-season.


Reports are that Klay is talking about contract extension right now instead of hitting FA.   That will save GS money. 

Iggy could have gotten more money from another team.

That may be but it hasn't happened quite yet.

You really think Iggy could have gotten more than 16 million a year for his age 34, 35, and 36 season? I don't. He averaged 6, 4, and 3 this year. Even if he could have, it would not have been much more. Is a couple million worth playing for a non-contender?

He is being pretty well compensated.

If Durant and Thompson take discounts on long-term contracts, then this idea will be validated.

Then again, by that time, Horford and Irving may be taking discounted contracts too.

Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2018, 12:08:05 PM »

Offline jambr380

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The league should never have agreed to the cap spike.  They could've stopped this. It was the cap spike that made this possible.

Neither Golden State nor Durant did anything wrong.

But it is silly that a championship caliber team was able to add an MVP caliber player in his prime without giving up hardly anything.

This is basically the main point that everybody has a problem with. Everybody played within the rules, but something still feels unfair. GSW was lucky to have signed Klay and Draymond to long-term [old] max contracts and have Steph completely break out as a superstar on a well-below market value deal.

Everyone can poke Durrant and say how weak the move was.... but most of those people are anti Warriors fans anyway.   

Free Agents move to California all the time to take less money....whats worse to play for money or championships? 

This isn't true, at all. I quite liked GSW before Durant joined them. Now they all seem like a bunch of arrogant a-h0les (except Durant) even though the world was just served to them on a silver platter. It's irritating and I hope to dog somebody knocks them off soon!

Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2018, 12:17:25 PM »

Offline mahonedog88

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This seems like it is the whiny post. We should be happy with the Celtics in their current position, but instead, let's focus on how unfair it is that the NBA lets all of these good players play with each other?

Regardless of $, this isn't the first super team in league history. How do you think Knicks fans liked the '86 Celtics?

Comparing the Warriors situation with the '86 Celtics doesn't exactly line up in my opinion.  Nobody is saying this is the first super team, but in this debate you have to get real specific with what we're dealing with here...

Golden State isn't just a super team.  They're a team that set the regular season wins record a year after already winning the title and were up 3-1 on the Cavs on the verge of going back to back and probably would have had Draymond not gone through his kick-everyone-in-the-nuts phase.  And it's not like they "just" signed a free agent.  They signed who most, if not everyone, considers to be the 2nd or 3rd best player in the world.

And then on Durant's side of things, it makes it impossible for me and many to not question his competitiveness.  How can you not after you go and join a 73 win team that you were ONE WIN away from eliminating yourself?

I'm not necessarily putting blame on either party, because I may have done each had I been in their respective positions...but you can't deny that the optics of it all are just terrible.  I don't recall hearing the '86 Celtics dealt with this sort of thing.

Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2018, 12:27:15 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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This is basically the main point that everybody has a problem with. Everybody played within the rules, but something still feels unfair.

NBA teams and NBA players alike are hyper-competitive.  This is to be expected and it's what we generally want to see from them.

If you give hypercompetitive people a system that can be exploited for competitive gain, they will exploit it.

In other words, don't hate the player hate the game.

If we don't want a situation where a single team has an overwhelming likelihood of winning the title in any given season because they're so much more talented than everybody else, we need the league to put rules and processes in place that prevent teams and players from causing that to happen.

We should expect that NBA teams and NBA players will continually look for opportunities to rig things in their favor.  That's what hypercompetitive people do.
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Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2018, 12:31:20 PM »

Offline Moranis

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What amazes me most about this is it seems every player on the Warriors (except Curry) is taking less money then they could get somewhere else.   


Until one of them gets tired of being under-payed, it will be hard for other teams to catch up.

Not necessarily true. Didn't both Thompson and Green sign max contracts? It's just the salary cap has gone up since then.

Iggy is getting paid a lot of money too.

Durant is not getting max money right now, but the thinking has been he will get a Curry contract this off-season.


Reports are that Klay is talking about contract extension right now instead of hitting FA.   That will save GS money. 

Iggy could have gotten more money from another team.

That may be but it hasn't happened quite yet.

You really think Iggy could have gotten more than 16 million a year for his age 34, 35, and 36 season? I don't. He averaged 6, 4, and 3 this year. Even if he could have, it would not have been much more. Is a couple million worth playing for a non-contender?

He is being pretty well compensated.

If Durant and Thompson take discounts on long-term contracts, then this idea will be validated.

Then again, by that time, Horford and Irving may be taking discounted contracts too.
Sacramento would have given him more than that.  Houston wanted him and would have paid him more had they been able to work out a sign and trade. 

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Re: Durant... amazing how one player just upended the competition
« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2018, 12:44:22 PM »

Offline makaveli

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And one more thing. It is unfair to say that the warriors are this good because of durrant. They would have been this good even without him.

Your first point you made I generally agree with, I hated his decision...but to say the Warriors would be just as good without him, I just don't see it.  Would they still be the favorites?  Most likely.  But having two top 5 players on your team instead of 1 is what takes them to another level.

You look back at that move now, Durant going to Golden State essentially shut down the NBA for a few years.  Just think, if you take Durant off the Warriors and put him on literally any other team, the league would be SO much better for it and so much more wide open.

I think that if you take durrant away from that team, curry would be the unanymous MVP version for years to come, plus Klay would be much better. Durrant doesnt make his teammates better, like Melo. Given that Barmes would stay in that case, which is not that bad of a plan B, or an equivalent of a talent/picks they would get via trade, you have yourself a 70 win team, right?
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