Author Topic: Grizzlies open to trading #4 pick. Also, Suns open to trading #1 pick  (Read 3524 times)

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Offline Androslav

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It is what have you done for me lately, and KAT has not done crap on the defensive side of the ball!!  I will gladly say the same about Ayton IF he puts up three straight years of abysmal NBA defense in his first three years!!

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A basketball does not have sides!! ;D


Yes it does, inside and outside.

Lol. Oh you ;D.
Nonsense, the ball is round.
It is like saying that you'll wait for someone at the corner of a mosque. :)
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« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 03:15:32 PM by Androslav »
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Offline celticsclay

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CB forums obsession with draft picks and trading to get high draft picks continues.

We have a championship level roster right now why would we rock that boat for MOAH rookies!

Be quiet Chilly we need to move Rozier and Irving because having 2 talented guards on the same roster will NEVAH win you a ring!! MOAH ROOKIES!!!

We really don't need a rookie this year...

Offline smokeablount

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CB forums obsession with draft picks and trading to get high draft picks continues.

We have a championship level roster right now why would we rock that boat for MOAH rookies!

Be quiet Chilly we need to move Rozier and Irving because having 2 talented guards on the same roster will NEVAH win you a ring!! MOAH ROOKIES!!!

Yeah, people always wanna trade up for top picks.  But this year even I want to do this.  I mean, we can't take on all the draft picks we have, we have 4 guards that need more minutes than we can play them, and we need a young big of which there are tons in this draft.

People are talking about Bamba the most, but I actually question his fit with his lack of passing and needing to develop a 3.  Jaren Jackson Jr looks like a better version of Bamba and he should be at 4, and Wendell Carter who could be there at 7 looks like a truly amazing fit for us. 

This year, with the amount of picks and guards we have, I don't think these fantasies are as nuts as usual.  I mean, c'mon, I've got them... they can't be nuts!

I should clarify also- I'm not firmly in the trade Rozier camp, but Danny is an asset manager.  It would be in his character to flip Rozier (and consolidate a draft asset or two) to get a highly valuable asset more likely than a player, due to our cap situation and the fact that a player of that value would clearly put us in the tax. 

But if he matched outgoing salary to acquire the #4 or #6 pick and drafted that player, he'd have him for 4-8 years and on the same timeline as Jaylen, Jayson, and Kyrie. A big 4 of the future to match our current big whatever of KI, JB, GH, JT and Al.

The core thing here is, I don't think we could replace Rozier when he plays 30-40 minutes a night.  He's an above average starting PG and the best player in a backup guard role.

The key to me is, if he only plays backup minutes and shares them with Smart, the fact is, his production or at least 75% of it should be replaceable on a vet min contract given our current stature in the NBA.  So if he starts, he's immensely valuable.  If Kyrie never gets hurt and Rozier never starts or plays 30 minutes, he doesn't add nearly as much value.

Now imagine Horford getting hurt.  How would Tatum, Baynes and Theis hold down the fort vs. Brown, Smart and Rozier?  To me, we need depth at PF/C with an athletic 2-way player as much as we need Rozier's depth at guard, and I think you can find 2-3 of those PF/C at #4 or #6.
Don't we have Rozier under control for the next 5 years? What makes you think after three years, when we are looking at having to pay this rookie that the everyone isn't going to be saying we need to trade this developing rookie because his rookie contract is up in a year and we need to trade him while his value is high? Seems I have heard this idea every year since Sullinger.

I think you're right, we very well might be saying the same thing about the #4 or #6 pick in 3-4 years, but in the meantime we'd have 4 years of rookie scale vs. 1 for Rozier, and the premise is we get a big who has all star potential, which I think Jackson and Carter could have.  If we let Smart walk this debate ends for me, but if we keep Smart, this potential trade looks enticing.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Offline Big333223

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CB forums obsession with draft picks and trading to get high draft picks continues.

We have a championship level roster right now why would we rock that boat for MOAH rookies!

Be quiet Chilly we need to move Rozier and Irving because having 2 talented guards on the same roster will NEVAH win you a ring!! MOAH ROOKIES!!!

This is generally how I feel. Keep Rozier, make a run next season, and the summer of '19 he's restricted so the Celtics still have the leverage to sign-and-trade him if that has to happen.

But... If #4 comes available for, say, Rozier, #27, and Memphis' own pick back I would do that deal. But Memphis is going to try to get an impact wing to pair with Conley and Gasol to make one more run at it.
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Offline smokeablount

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CB forums obsession with draft picks and trading to get high draft picks continues.

We have a championship level roster right now why would we rock that boat for MOAH rookies!

Be quiet Chilly we need to move Rozier and Irving because having 2 talented guards on the same roster will NEVAH win you a ring!! MOAH ROOKIES!!!

This is generally how I feel. Keep Rozier, make a run next season, and the summer of '19 he's restricted so the Celtics still have the leverage to sign-and-trade him if that has to happen.

But... If #4 comes available for, say, Rozier, #27, and Memphis' own pick back I would do that deal. But Memphis is going to try to get an impact wing to pair with Conley and Gasol to make one more run at it.

I'm just not excited about the draft next year.  Not the players themselves, not the positions they play.  I'm thinking we can't keep all our 2019 draft picks, and we don't have enough minutes for our guards to play their best (IE Rozier is much better if he plays with starters and if he gets enough time to get in a rhythm).

If Danny works out Jaren Jackson Jr and our entire braintrust think he's the next Bosh (this kid looks like a freak), or Danny works out the incredibly skilled Wendell Carter Jr and they think he's a 19-year-old version of 21-year-old Al Horford, I would welcome the following deal:

Rozier
2019 Memphis pick
#27
2019 Sacramento pick

FOR

#4
#34 or Unprotected 2019 2nd Rounder
Top 40 Protected '21 or '22 2nd Rounder

I know Hinkie made his name or taking as many shots in the lottery as possible... But his 'surviving' kids just lost to the only 2 kids we drafted in the top 3. 

Based on us picking Brown at 3 and having Tatum as the #1 player last year, I would roll with a consolidation trade to get a high pick, and risk going bust, to snag a cost controlled elite young big man prospect that compares favorably to a multiple time all star.  Then we hopefully get 2 high 2nd round picks staggered over the next 3-4 years, to get kids with 1st round talent on 4 year deals worth 500k-1m a year, to help round out our contending roster for cheap.

I think Danny has earned the benefit of the doubt as to how to acquire and spend high draft picks, and remember, he's the guy who refused to trade Rozier all along.  No one in the world was higher on Rozier than him.  If even Danny thinks its time to deal, it says something.

I don't know what the right path is, and will live and die with what our braintrust decides. 
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Online nickagneta

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CB forums obsession with draft picks and trading to get high draft picks continues.

We have a championship level roster right now why would we rock that boat for MOAH rookies!

Be quiet Chilly we need to move Rozier and Irving because having 2 talented guards on the same roster will NEVAH win you a ring!! MOAH ROOKIES!!!

Yeah, people always wanna trade up for top picks.  But this year even I want to do this.  I mean, we can't take on all the draft picks we have, we have 4 guards that need more minutes than we can play them, and we need a young big of which there are tons in this draft.

People are talking about Bamba the most, but I actually question his fit with his lack of passing and needing to develop a 3.  Jaren Jackson Jr looks like a better version of Bamba and he should be at 4, and Wendell Carter who could be there at 7 looks like a truly amazing fit for us. 

This year, with the amount of picks and guards we have, I don't think these fantasies are as nuts as usual.  I mean, c'mon, I've got them... they can't be nuts!

I should clarify also- I'm not firmly in the trade Rozier camp, but Danny is an asset manager.  It would be in his character to flip Rozier (and consolidate a draft asset or two) to get a highly valuable asset more likely than a player, due to our cap situation and the fact that a player of that value would clearly put us in the tax. 

But if he matched outgoing salary to acquire the #4 or #6 pick and drafted that player, he'd have him for 4-8 years and on the same timeline as Jaylen, Jayson, and Kyrie. A big 4 of the future to match our current big whatever of KI, JB, GH, JT and Al.

The core thing here is, I don't think we could replace Rozier when he plays 30-40 minutes a night.  He's an above average starting PG and the best player in a backup guard role.

The key to me is, if he only plays backup minutes and shares them with Smart, the fact is, his production or at least 75% of it should be replaceable on a vet min contract given our current stature in the NBA.  So if he starts, he's immensely valuable.  If Kyrie never gets hurt and Rozier never starts or plays 30 minutes, he doesn't add nearly as much value.

Now imagine Horford getting hurt.  How would Tatum, Baynes and Theis hold down the fort vs. Brown, Smart and Rozier?  To me, we need depth at PF/C with an athletic 2-way player as much as we need Rozier's depth at guard, and I think you can find 2-3 of those PF/C at #4 or #6.
Don't we have Rozier under control for the next 5 years? What makes you think after three years, when we are looking at having to pay this rookie that the everyone isn't going to be saying we need to trade this developing rookie because his rookie contract is up in a year and we need to trade him while his value is high? Seems I have heard this idea every year since Sullinger.

I think you're right, we very well might be saying the same thing about the #4 or #6 pick in 3-4 years, but in the meantime we'd have 4 years of rookie scale vs. 1 for Rozier, and the premise is we get a big who has all star potential, which I think Jackson and Carter could have.  If we let Smart walk this debate ends for me, but if we keep Smart, this potential trade looks enticing.
[developAnother thing to consider is what have you done to the quality of the roster if the big doesn't work out? You also might not be getting the same production that Rozier gives you. Bigs develop slower. So that big may not even be developed by the end of year three.

It seems like most people looking to trade Rozier for a pick don't realize that not every pick works out like Rozier, Brown and Tatum. Here's some bigs that were drafted in the top six of recent drafts:

Dragan Bender
Jahlil Okafor
Willie-Cauley Stein
Cody Zeller
Alex Len
Anthony Bennett
Thomas Robinson

A big pick in the top 6 could easily turn into players like those. Are any of them worth Rozier and a possible high lottery pick?

I just think, going into a Finals contending year, you have to go for it. You have an amazing backcourt and wing situation. This is now a guard and wing league. Why hurt that when going for a REAL shot at a title. We are one of if not the youngest team to ever get to a conference final or the Finals if we get there. We don't need to get younger. We have 4 picks at getting a star player, maybe a big, in next year's draft.

I say maintain status quo. Resign Smart to a bargain deal if possuble if not let him walk, look at Rozier as your future 6th man, pay him after a year and use the draft to supplement the team in 2019, hopefully after a title.

Offline smokeablount

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CB forums obsession with draft picks and trading to get high draft picks continues.

We have a championship level roster right now why would we rock that boat for MOAH rookies!

Be quiet Chilly we need to move Rozier and Irving because having 2 talented guards on the same roster will NEVAH win you a ring!! MOAH ROOKIES!!!

Yeah, people always wanna trade up for top picks.  But this year even I want to do this.  I mean, we can't take on all the draft picks we have, we have 4 guards that need more minutes than we can play them, and we need a young big of which there are tons in this draft.

People are talking about Bamba the most, but I actually question his fit with his lack of passing and needing to develop a 3.  Jaren Jackson Jr looks like a better version of Bamba and he should be at 4, and Wendell Carter who could be there at 7 looks like a truly amazing fit for us. 

This year, with the amount of picks and guards we have, I don't think these fantasies are as nuts as usual.  I mean, c'mon, I've got them... they can't be nuts!

I should clarify also- I'm not firmly in the trade Rozier camp, but Danny is an asset manager.  It would be in his character to flip Rozier (and consolidate a draft asset or two) to get a highly valuable asset more likely than a player, due to our cap situation and the fact that a player of that value would clearly put us in the tax. 

But if he matched outgoing salary to acquire the #4 or #6 pick and drafted that player, he'd have him for 4-8 years and on the same timeline as Jaylen, Jayson, and Kyrie. A big 4 of the future to match our current big whatever of KI, JB, GH, JT and Al.

The core thing here is, I don't think we could replace Rozier when he plays 30-40 minutes a night.  He's an above average starting PG and the best player in a backup guard role.

The key to me is, if he only plays backup minutes and shares them with Smart, the fact is, his production or at least 75% of it should be replaceable on a vet min contract given our current stature in the NBA.  So if he starts, he's immensely valuable.  If Kyrie never gets hurt and Rozier never starts or plays 30 minutes, he doesn't add nearly as much value.

Now imagine Horford getting hurt.  How would Tatum, Baynes and Theis hold down the fort vs. Brown, Smart and Rozier?  To me, we need depth at PF/C with an athletic 2-way player as much as we need Rozier's depth at guard, and I think you can find 2-3 of those PF/C at #4 or #6.
Don't we have Rozier under control for the next 5 years? What makes you think after three years, when we are looking at having to pay this rookie that the everyone isn't going to be saying we need to trade this developing rookie because his rookie contract is up in a year and we need to trade him while his value is high? Seems I have heard this idea every year since Sullinger.

I think you're right, we very well might be saying the same thing about the #4 or #6 pick in 3-4 years, but in the meantime we'd have 4 years of rookie scale vs. 1 for Rozier, and the premise is we get a big who has all star potential, which I think Jackson and Carter could have.  If we let Smart walk this debate ends for me, but if we keep Smart, this potential trade looks enticing.
Another thing to consider is what have you done to the quality of the roster if the big doesn't work out? You also might not be getting the same production that Rozier gives you. Bigs develop slower. So that big may not even be developed by the end of year three.

It seems like most people looking to trade Rozier for a pick don't realize that not every pick works out like Rozier, Brown and Tatum. Here's some bigs that were drafted in the top six of recent drafts:

Dragan Bender
Jahlil Okafor
Willie-Cauley Stein
Cody Zeller
Alex Len
Anthony Bennett
Thomas Robinson

A big pick in the top 6 could easily turn into players like those. Are any of them worth Rozier and a possible high lottery pick?

I just think, going into a Finals contending year, you have to go for it. You have an amazing backcourt and wing situation. This is now a guard and wing league. Why hurt that when going for a REAL shot at a title. We are one of if not the youngest team to ever get to a conference final or the Finals if we get there. We don't need to get younger. We have 4 picks at getting a star player, maybe a big, in next year's draft.

I say maintain status quo. Resign Smart to a bargain deal if possuble if not let him walk, look at Rozier as your future 6th man, pay him after a year and use the draft to supplement the team in 2019, hopefully after a title.

It's a reasonable take.  I don't even disagree.  To me, the choice comes down mainly to picking your poison between insurance for a Kyrie injury and maximizing your chances overall for next year, vs. insurance for a Horford injury and maximizing the value of your asset pool. 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 04:53:43 PM by nickagneta »
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Offline CFAN38

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can't see the Cs having anything to do with either trade.


Suns, If Doncic is their guy they may be able to move down to #3 or #4 if they are confident that Sac and ATL will not take him.

Memphis, this pick is interesting LAC reportedly would love it but what do they offer beyond #12 and #13? I suspect that teams will be really split on how the top of this draft should go and the player available at #4 (MPJ, JJJ, Bagely, Bamba) could all be a top two prospect on different teams boards. The teams picking 5-9 could all be jockeying to get this pick and draft "their guy".