Poll

What does it take to get the number 7 pick in this draft

Rozier plus Celtics Pick 2018
14 (31.8%)
Rozier plus The Kings pick 2019
20 (45.5%)
Rozier plus Memphis Pick
10 (22.7%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Author Topic: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft  (Read 7390 times)

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Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2018, 01:39:09 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks?  We're in win now mode.  No need for more youth than we already have.

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2018, 02:05:44 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks?  We're in win now mode.  No need for more youth than we already have.



 What's up Dog? You don't want to keep this party going forever?

 Seriously though like I've stated. Me probably are going to lose Terry in a year. So if you can get a high pick for him and take a big time talent cost controlled for four years, you do it.

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2018, 02:15:58 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The continued need for people to want to accumulate assets baffles me. We are one of the youngest teams in the league and might become one of the youngest teams to ever make the Finals. We do not need more youth. You developed Rozier into an above averagestarting caliber PG. You keep him on this team.

Contending and championship teams stay that way through keeping the status quo and adding pieces through signing and drafting. You don't continue it by trading away proven players who are still developing for unknown draft picks. Sign a big with the MLE. Add players with next year's draft which we could have up to 4 picks ranging up and down the 1st round. There is just zero need to get rid of Rozier for a pick. We need stability. We need proven players. We need to keep this group together and see what add Kyrie and Hayward does for this team.

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2018, 02:18:10 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks?  We're in win now mode.  No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2018, 02:24:35 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks?  We're in win now mode.  No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2018, 02:29:23 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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I would love to keep Rozier on this team as well.  But salary implications might make it impractical, UNLESS, Wyc is willing to pay some heavy luxury tax.

I would love to retain Rozier, Smart, and Baynes.  But can we afford to keep all those guys?

The suggested return is pretty silly though.  The #7 pick is just not that valuable if you go by past draftees.  I would look more towards the Jrue Holiday trade as a baseline for how much to demand in return - ie a young prospect plus a mid 1st round pick.

I feel like our best move might be extending Rozier, and waiting to match Smart.  Because I don't believe any team will get into a bidding war for Smart.  A couple of years later, if we want to flip Rozier we have better leverage if we have more contract length on his deal and he has proven himself even more. 

On the other hand.  "Sell high" isn't a bad proposition either.  What if the Red Sox had flipped Jackie Bradley Junior instead of waiting for him to come back down to earth this season?

Contending and championship teams stay that way through keeping the status quo and adding pieces through signing and drafting. You don't continue it by trading away proven players who are still developing for unknown draft picks. Sign a big with the MLE. Add players with next year's draft which we could have up to 4 picks ranging up and down the 1st round. There is just zero need to get rid of Rozier for a pick. We need stability. We need proven players. We need to keep this group together and see what add Kyrie and Hayward does for this team.

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2018, 02:48:35 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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The continued need for people to want to accumulate assets baffles me. We are one of the youngest teams in the league and might become one of the youngest teams to ever make the Finals. We do not need more youth. You developed Rozier into an above averagestarting caliber PG. You keep him on this team.

Contending and championship teams stay that way through keeping the status quo and adding pieces through signing and drafting. You don't continue it by trading away proven players who are still developing for unknown draft picks. Sign a big with the MLE. Add players with next year's draft which we could have up to 4 picks ranging up and down the 1st round. There is just zero need to get rid of Rozier for a pick. We need stability. We need proven players. We need to keep this group together and see what add Kyrie and Hayward does for this team.

Indeed.

We are where we want to be. Despite the other threads on the board today about Ainge's attempts to make mistakes in the draft, he has picked astutely.

WE DO NOT NEED TO CONTINUALLY WORK THE DRAFT. The law of diminishing returns applies here.

Nick is right. Add a big, get healthy and make a run next year. Trading Rozier for a bad back is lunacy.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2018, 02:49:53 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks?  We're in win now mode.  No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.
No, we cannot.

payroll in 2019 (assuming we re-sign Smart)

1. Hayward $32,700,690
2. Kyrie $32,400,000  (cap projected to be $108 million, 8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
3. Horford $30,123,015
4. Smart let's say $10,000,000
5. Tatum $7,830,000
6. Brown $6,534,829
7. #27 pick $1,920,960
8. Ojeleye $1,618,520
9. Kings 2019 pick : since we got both Brown and Tatum at #3, let's assume we end up with #3 once again 8) --> $7,758,000

I'm not including Yabu and Nader cause, well, they suck. :P Hopefully, they won't be here by then. Not including other future picks either (Clips, Grizzlies, our own pick in 2019). Let's just assume we fill out the rest of the roster with vet minimum guys and a couple of MLE guys as well.

10. $8,568,000 (Non-Taxpayer MLE in 2018-19)
11. $5,659,000 (Taxpayer MLE in 2019-20)
12. vet min $1,603,638
13. vet min $1,603,638
14. vet min $1,603,638
15. Rozier ? ? ? ? ?
Demetrius Jackson $92,857

SUM: $150,016,785 !!!!!!!!!!

That's without counting Rozier's salary. Let's say Rozier's new contract starts at $15,000,000.

$150,016,785 + $15,000,000 = $165,016,785

If projections hold, the luxury tax threshold in 2019-20 will fall at approximately $129.2 million.
https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/9/28/16382498/nba-salary-cap-projections-2018-2019

For a non-repeater, it breaks down like this:

$7.5m for the first $5m over.
$8.75m for the next $5m.
$12.5m for the next $5m.
$16.25m for the next $5m.
$18.75m for the next $5m.
$21.25m for the next $5m.
$23.75m for the next $5m.
$26.25m for the next $5m.

$165,016,785 - $129,200,000 = $35,816,785 over the luxury tax threshold

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $23,750,000 + $4,288,121.25 = $113,038,121.25

We are talking about $113 million in luxury tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Highest luxury tax bill in NBA history is $90.57 million, paid by the Nets for the 2013-2014 season.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 02:58:08 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2018, 02:59:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks?  We're in win now mode.  No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.
No, we cannot.

payroll in 2019 (assuming we re-sign Smart)

1. Hayward $32,700,690
2. Kyrie $32,400,000  (cap projected to be $108 million, 8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
3. Horford $30,123,015
4. Smart let's say $10,000,000
5. Tatum $7,830,000
6. Brown $6,534,829
7. #27 pick $1,920,960
8. Ojeleye $1,618,520
9. Kings 2019 pick : since we got both Brown and Tatum at #3, let's assume we end up with #3 once again 8) --> $7,758,000

I'm not including Yabu and Nader cause, well, they suck. :P Hopefully, they won't be here by then. Not including other future picks either (Clips, Grizzlies, our own pick in 2019). Let's just assume we fill out the rest of the roster with vet minimum guys and a couple of MLE guys as well.

10. $8,568,000 (Non-Taxpayer MLE in 2018-19)
11. $5,659,000 (Taxpayer MLE in 2019-20)
12. vet min $1,603,638
13. vet min $1,603,638
14. vet min $1,603,638
15. Rozier ? ? ? ? ?
Demetrius Jackson $92,857

SUM: $150,016,785 !!!!!!!!!!

That's without counting Rozier's salary. Let's say Rozier's new contract starts at $15,000,000.

$150,016,785 + $15,000,000 = $165,016,785

If projections hold, the luxury tax threshold in 2019-20 will fall at approximately $129.2 million.
https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/9/28/16382498/nba-salary-cap-projections-2018-2019

For a non-repeater, it breaks down like this:

$7.5m for the first $5m over.
$8.75m for the next $5m.
$12.5m for the next $5m.
$16.25m for the next $5m.
$18.75m for the next $5m.
$21.25m for the next $5m.
$23.75m for the next $5m.
$26.25m for the next $5m.

$165,016,785 - $129,200,000 = $35,816,785

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $23,750,000 + $4,288,121.25 = $113,038,121.25

We are talking about $113 million in luxury tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Highest luxury tax bill in NBA history is $90.57 million, paid by the Nets for the 2013-2014 season.
And the Celtics haven't paid the luxury for years while making big profits. The new betting laws probably just increased franchise values by a bunch. The value of the franchise increase by hundreds of millions a year.

Boston has the money to pay the tax and will if they are a championship level team because being in the Finals and being champions is a major financial windfall.

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2018, 03:11:40 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks?  We're in win now mode.  No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.
No, we cannot.

payroll in 2019 (assuming we re-sign Smart)

1. Hayward $32,700,690
2. Kyrie $32,400,000  (cap projected to be $108 million, 8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
3. Horford $30,123,015
4. Smart let's say $10,000,000
5. Tatum $7,830,000
6. Brown $6,534,829
7. #27 pick $1,920,960
8. Ojeleye $1,618,520
9. Kings 2019 pick : since we got both Brown and Tatum at #3, let's assume we end up with #3 once again 8) --> $7,758,000

I'm not including Yabu and Nader cause, well, they suck. :P Hopefully, they won't be here by then. Not including other future picks either (Clips, Grizzlies, our own pick in 2019). Let's just assume we fill out the rest of the roster with vet minimum guys and a couple of MLE guys as well.

10. $8,568,000 (Non-Taxpayer MLE in 2018-19)
11. $5,659,000 (Taxpayer MLE in 2019-20)
12. vet min $1,603,638
13. vet min $1,603,638
14. vet min $1,603,638
15. Rozier ? ? ? ? ?
Demetrius Jackson $92,857

SUM: $150,016,785 !!!!!!!!!!

That's without counting Rozier's salary. Let's say Rozier's new contract starts at $15,000,000.

$150,016,785 + $15,000,000 = $165,016,785

If projections hold, the luxury tax threshold in 2019-20 will fall at approximately $129.2 million.
https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/9/28/16382498/nba-salary-cap-projections-2018-2019

For a non-repeater, it breaks down like this:

$7.5m for the first $5m over.
$8.75m for the next $5m.
$12.5m for the next $5m.
$16.25m for the next $5m.
$18.75m for the next $5m.
$21.25m for the next $5m.
$23.75m for the next $5m.
$26.25m for the next $5m.

$165,016,785 - $129,200,000 = $35,816,785

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $23,750,000 + $4,288,121.25 = $113,038,121.25

We are talking about $113 million in luxury tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Highest luxury tax bill in NBA history is $90.57 million, paid by the Nets for the 2013-2014 season.
And the Celtics haven't paid the luxury for years while making big profits. The new betting laws probably just increased franchise values by a bunch. The value of the franchise increase by hundreds of millions a year.

Boston has the money to pay the tax and will if they are a championship level team because being in the Finals and being champions is a major financial windfall.

Any chance the new betting laws will increase the cap space in a few years as well so that we could go max-FA hunting again in 2019 or 2020?  8)

(Or 2021 for you know who!)
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2018, 04:29:04 PM »

Offline td450

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The continued need for people to want to accumulate assets baffles me. We are one of the youngest teams in the league and might become one of the youngest teams to ever make the Finals. We do not need more youth. You developed Rozier into an above averagestarting caliber PG. You keep him on this team.

Contending and championship teams stay that way through keeping the status quo and adding pieces through signing and drafting. You don't continue it by trading away proven players who are still developing for unknown draft picks. Sign a big with the MLE. Add players with next year's draft which we could have up to 4 picks ranging up and down the 1st round. There is just zero need to get rid of Rozier for a pick. We need stability. We need proven players. We need to keep this group together and see what add Kyrie and Hayward does for this team.
You may be right about Rozier, but please don't act like there isn't sound logic in shopping him. Will he like playing 15 -20 minutes next year, after leading a team into the finals? Can we pay him and Smart after that if he plays this well? These are legit questions

I think its pretty clear that there is only one need left for this team, possibly for the next 5 years or so, and that is to get an understudy for Horford. He is about to turn 32 and Baynes turns 32 at the end of the year. We are stocked with young talent oozing out of every other position, but don't have a top young big.

It is a legit question to wonder if we are better off with a top big prospect that may take a few years to develop rather than deal with a major logjam for minutes at guard.

Contending teams make changes. Check out the rosters of the great Lakers and Celtics teams of the 80's. They weren't afraid to make important moves.

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2018, 04:53:00 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks?  We're in win now mode.  No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.
No, we cannot.

payroll in 2019 (assuming we re-sign Smart)

1. Hayward $32,700,690
2. Kyrie $32,400,000  (cap projected to be $108 million, 8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
3. Horford $30,123,015
4. Smart let's say $10,000,000
5. Tatum $7,830,000
6. Brown $6,534,829
7. #27 pick $1,920,960
8. Ojeleye $1,618,520
9. Kings 2019 pick : since we got both Brown and Tatum at #3, let's assume we end up with #3 once again 8) --> $7,758,000

I'm not including Yabu and Nader cause, well, they suck. :P Hopefully, they won't be here by then. Not including other future picks either (Clips, Grizzlies, our own pick in 2019). Let's just assume we fill out the rest of the roster with vet minimum guys and a couple of MLE guys as well.

10. $8,568,000 (Non-Taxpayer MLE in 2018-19)
11. $5,659,000 (Taxpayer MLE in 2019-20)
12. vet min $1,603,638
13. vet min $1,603,638
14. vet min $1,603,638
15. Rozier ? ? ? ? ?
Demetrius Jackson $92,857

SUM: $150,016,785 !!!!!!!!!!

That's without counting Rozier's salary. Let's say Rozier's new contract starts at $15,000,000.

$150,016,785 + $15,000,000 = $165,016,785

If projections hold, the luxury tax threshold in 2019-20 will fall at approximately $129.2 million.
https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/9/28/16382498/nba-salary-cap-projections-2018-2019

For a non-repeater, it breaks down like this:

$7.5m for the first $5m over.
$8.75m for the next $5m.
$12.5m for the next $5m.
$16.25m for the next $5m.
$18.75m for the next $5m.
$21.25m for the next $5m.
$23.75m for the next $5m.
$26.25m for the next $5m.

$165,016,785 - $129,200,000 = $35,816,785 over the luxury tax threshold

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $23,750,000 + $4,288,121.25 = $113,038,121.25

We are talking about $113 million in luxury tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Highest luxury tax bill in NBA history is $90.57 million, paid by the Nets for the 2013-2014 season.
That is a virtually worst case scenario for the Celtics projected salary total 2 years from now. 

1.  Horford could conceivably opt out of the final year of his contract and sign something like a 4 year 80 million reducing his number by maybe 12-13 million.  This alone could nullify like half or more of the tax bill.

2.  Rozier, Smart or anyone else could be traded for lesser salaries and/or draft picks reducing that number greatly.

3.  You are also assuming the C's use all of the exception money.

4.  As we stand the C's have multiple draft picks going into the 19-20 season and there are a million other things they can/could do to alleviate the tax number. 

 

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2018, 05:09:34 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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PGs are plentiful in the NBA so hard to expect too much for just Rozier.

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2018, 05:21:37 PM »

Offline playdream

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PGs are plentiful in the NBA so hard to expect too much for just Rozier.
Yeah but not many with a triple doulbe at first start and 31 point the next

Re: Poll: What's it take to get the #7 pick in this draft
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2018, 05:30:39 PM »

Offline byennie

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Are people seriously still trying to get more draft picks?  We're in win now mode.  No need for more youth than we already have.
We cannot keep both Rozier and Smart going forward. Rozier is on the rookie scale. Best way to get fair value for him is to trade him for a draft pick (unless we are talking about a blockbuster move for AD/Kawhi or something of that magnitude). I guess we can trade him for a guy on the rookie scale as well, provided that he has 2+ years remaining on his contract. If you have such a guy in mind, feel free to offer your suggestion.
This just isn't true. If Wyc is willing tp pay, there's zero reason we can keep both.
No, we cannot.

payroll in 2019 (assuming we re-sign Smart)

1. Hayward $32,700,690
2. Kyrie $32,400,000  (cap projected to be $108 million, 8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
3. Horford $30,123,015
4. Smart let's say $10,000,000
5. Tatum $7,830,000
6. Brown $6,534,829
7. #27 pick $1,920,960
8. Ojeleye $1,618,520
9. Kings 2019 pick : since we got both Brown and Tatum at #3, let's assume we end up with #3 once again 8) --> $7,758,000

I'm not including Yabu and Nader cause, well, they suck. :P Hopefully, they won't be here by then. Not including other future picks either (Clips, Grizzlies, our own pick in 2019). Let's just assume we fill out the rest of the roster with vet minimum guys and a couple of MLE guys as well.

10. $8,568,000 (Non-Taxpayer MLE in 2018-19)
11. $5,659,000 (Taxpayer MLE in 2019-20)
12. vet min $1,603,638
13. vet min $1,603,638
14. vet min $1,603,638
15. Rozier ? ? ? ? ?
Demetrius Jackson $92,857

SUM: $150,016,785 !!!!!!!!!!

That's without counting Rozier's salary. Let's say Rozier's new contract starts at $15,000,000.

$150,016,785 + $15,000,000 = $165,016,785

If projections hold, the luxury tax threshold in 2019-20 will fall at approximately $129.2 million.
https://www.blazersedge.com/2017/9/28/16382498/nba-salary-cap-projections-2018-2019

For a non-repeater, it breaks down like this:

$7.5m for the first $5m over.
$8.75m for the next $5m.
$12.5m for the next $5m.
$16.25m for the next $5m.
$18.75m for the next $5m.
$21.25m for the next $5m.
$23.75m for the next $5m.
$26.25m for the next $5m.

$165,016,785 - $129,200,000 = $35,816,785 over the luxury tax threshold

$7,500,000 + $8,750,000 + $12,500,000 + $16,250,000 + $18,750,000 + $21,250,000 + $23,750,000 + $4,288,121.25 = $113,038,121.25

We are talking about $113 million in luxury tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Highest luxury tax bill in NBA history is $90.57 million, paid by the Nets for the 2013-2014 season.

If anything you just convinced me it's possible. 6 years later under a higher cap than Brooklyn, but in line with what they did, with a squad that's definitely a contender. Take out the first MLE it slashes something like $30M right off the top.