Author Topic: ESPN asking about idea of trading Tatum and Brown for Kawhi Leonard  (Read 14861 times)

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Re: ESPN asking about idea of trading Tatum and Brown for Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #120 on: April 21, 2018, 09:11:59 AM »

Online Roy H.

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There is nothing remotely similar with Kyries trade request .... which was done in the off season and had a preexisting condition everyone was already aware of.  He also wanted to leave for legacy issues and getting out of LBJ'S shadow.  Kawhi is simply worried that he might have an injury linger into next season and ONLY cares about how this might theoretically affect  his next big paycheck, while not not even trying to earn his current on,

So one “quit” due to ego, and the other due to the desire not to see his career shortened due to injury?

Kyrie did a bad thing, if you care about loyalty to one’s team. Kawhi potentially is doing a bad thing, too. It just doesn’t make sense to hold loyalty and honoring one’s contract as sacrosanct in one case, but not the other.

Sorry, but offering a false premise and then someone saying "Amen" to it, does nothing to make the statement correct. I also am not feeling the Kyrie hate coming from you guys either.

Kyrie never "quit" anything. He verbalized a desire for change in the off season, and backed that with the simple fact he needed surgery sooner rather than later, and that might eventually be a better route than playing his last year on a team that had already been shopping him, and a team he had no interest in playing for.  He gave his franchise ample prewarning, a robust list of teams he would prefer to go to, and let management get on with getting the best deal they could get. By the end they got what most people considered a kings ransom for him.

He "quit" on Noone ... not a single game ...  and after the trade muddled through 75% of the regular season on a bum wheel before he AND management decided to just get things fixed this year and be back 100% next year, when Hayward is hopefully back and the young ones ... get some seasoning this year.

There is no record of him quitting on anyone ... in Cleveland or Boston.

Kawhi on the other hand, QUIT.  He received doctors clearance from what most people believe to be one of the most upright and professional organizations in professional sports.

He still quit. 

Reportedly his teammates, some being legendary veterans in the twilight of their careers, begged him to play.

He still quit.

He quit through most of the regular seasons and apparently all the playoffs too.

Why? 

He does not want to risk his potential supermax bonus .... and apparently this is the major issue.

Perhaps it was a blackmailing attempt to force the spurs hand on this.  He took millions to not play and left his team, teammates, and paying fans in the lurch. Maybe he was just being extra cautious. But whatever it was ... he quit.

I don't want this self-entitled clown anywhere near Celtics Green, unless it is images of him still in black and getting posterized by JT and JB etc.

The Continued attempts to parallel this with Kyrie's desire for mobility and getting out of LBJs shadow (and get some real coaching) .... bear no comparison to Kawhi sabotage of his team.

I don't mean to sound so Cantankerous, I just find the comparison  incredibly weak.

Game 3 cannot start soon enough .... tonight will be tough.

He didnt quit. He hasn't even started. Easy for people like you to risk other peiple's livelihood. His injury was mismanaged by the staff, why should he continue to trust them?! If it was you you'd risk millions despite being mismanaged by their doctors? That's dumb.

Nonsense.  He is being payed many millions to do his job ... this year.  He is refusing to do that. If you think that San Antonio medical staff and external doctors mismanaged his case, you need to post credible references/proof.
The proof is he is still in pain, receiving medical treatment and having doctors do more and more tests to get a 100% accurate diagnosis as to why Kawhi is in pain and feels the knee is not right.

Team medical staffs get diagnosis' wrong a bunch. Do we have to look any farther than the Celtics own medical staff and the way they handled IT last year and KG in 2009? The Boston medical staff may have cost Thomas $100 million.

Its incumbant upon a player that if a team medical staff is telling them they are good to go, and they feel they aren't, like there is continued pain, discomfort or whatever, for them to seek 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions to get the medical care they feel best about so they can return and be the best they can be. That way the team gets the best of the player and the player maximizes his chance at full health performance which maximizes his money making ability.

Kawhi is doing what's best for Kawhi. I, for one, respect that.

I recently talked with a neuropsychologist that did a lot of the concussion testing for the Cleveland Browns some years ago.  I asked how often he suspected that guys would 'fake good' to get back on the field.  He said the opposite was actually more common -- guys 'faking bad' to avoid further injury, especially in a contract year. 

I don't know how often it occurs or whether there's a difference in sports.  But there's no doubt a strong incentive for players to protect their health for longevity.  Worse, with how often trade demands have been granted lately, it seems like players have an increasingly ability to use health issues/treatment as leverage. 

I agree with you that players should listen to their bodies and get as many opinions as they can.  But at what point does the player gain too much power in these decisions?  When does ownership lose their ability to manage a team and its players?  What safeguards can be put into place so that a player doesn't collect $20 million in a season for not playing by choice rather than necessity?
I have 3 friends who are ex-pro athletes. I have two friends deep in Division I sports. Have to say I don't believe your doctor friend based on stories I have heard. Players want to play and almost all the time have to be held back against their will so they don't try to play while injured and injure themselves more.

And ultimately, it is ALWAYS, the player that has last say as to when he or she can return once they get injured. Medical staffs are beholden to teams and make decisions based on the best interests of the team. It is the player that has to make the best decision based on their best interests.

That's what Kawhi is doing here. That's not quitting. That's doing what is in his best interest.

What happens if in 2 months they discover he has some degenerative tendon disease and if he had played he could have done permanent damage to his leg? Everyone is going to seem pretty stupid then. Look at what happened to IT. The team said play through it, it won't be anything that can't be fixed through resting in the off season. He played. It got worse. He tried rest. It didn't work. He now needs surgery and now he will be about $100 million less rich.

Players gotta look out for themselves, first and foremost, then the team after that.

The players who choose this motto are the last people you give max contracts to.

Kyrie did.  8)


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: ESPN asking about idea of trading Tatum and Brown for Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #121 on: April 21, 2018, 09:20:40 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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There is nothing remotely similar with Kyries trade request .... which was done in the off season and had a preexisting condition everyone was already aware of.  He also wanted to leave for legacy issues and getting out of LBJ'S shadow.  Kawhi is simply worried that he might have an injury linger into next season and ONLY cares about how this might theoretically affect  his next big paycheck, while not not even trying to earn his current on,

So one “quit” due to ego, and the other due to the desire not to see his career shortened due to injury?

Kyrie did a bad thing, if you care about loyalty to one’s team. Kawhi potentially is doing a bad thing, too. It just doesn’t make sense to hold loyalty and honoring one’s contract as sacrosanct in one case, but not the other.

Sorry, but offering a false premise and then someone saying "Amen" to it, does nothing to make the statement correct. I also am not feeling the Kyrie hate coming from you guys either.

Kyrie never "quit" anything. He verbalized a desire for change in the off season, and backed that with the simple fact he needed surgery sooner rather than later, and that might eventually be a better route than playing his last year on a team that had already been shopping him, and a team he had no interest in playing for.  He gave his franchise ample prewarning, a robust list of teams he would prefer to go to, and let management get on with getting the best deal they could get. By the end they got what most people considered a kings ransom for him.

He "quit" on Noone ... not a single game ...  and after the trade muddled through 75% of the regular season on a bum wheel before he AND management decided to just get things fixed this year and be back 100% next year, when Hayward is hopefully back and the young ones ... get some seasoning this year.

There is no record of him quitting on anyone ... in Cleveland or Boston.

Kawhi on the other hand, QUIT.  He received doctors clearance from what most people believe to be one of the most upright and professional organizations in professional sports.

He still quit. 

Reportedly his teammates, some being legendary veterans in the twilight of their careers, begged him to play.

He still quit.

He quit through most of the regular seasons and apparently all the playoffs too.

Why? 

He does not want to risk his potential supermax bonus .... and apparently this is the major issue.

Perhaps it was a blackmailing attempt to force the spurs hand on this.  He took millions to not play and left his team, teammates, and paying fans in the lurch. Maybe he was just being extra cautious. But whatever it was ... he quit.

I don't want this self-entitled clown anywhere near Celtics Green, unless it is images of him still in black and getting posterized by JT and JB etc.

The Continued attempts to parallel this with Kyrie's desire for mobility and getting out of LBJs shadow (and get some real coaching) .... bear no comparison to Kawhi sabotage of his team.

I don't mean to sound so Cantankerous, I just find the comparison  incredibly weak.

Game 3 cannot start soon enough .... tonight will be tough.

He didnt quit. He hasn't even started. Easy for people like you to risk other peiple's livelihood. His injury was mismanaged by the staff, why should he continue to trust them?! If it was you you'd risk millions despite being mismanaged by their doctors? That's dumb.

Nonsense.  He is being payed many millions to do his job ... this year.  He is refusing to do that. If you think that San Antonio medical staff and external doctors mismanaged his case, you need to post credible references/proof.
The proof is he is still in pain, receiving medical treatment and having doctors do more and more tests to get a 100% accurate diagnosis as to why Kawhi is in pain and feels the knee is not right.

Team medical staffs get diagnosis' wrong a bunch. Do we have to look any farther than the Celtics own medical staff and the way they handled IT last year and KG in 2009? The Boston medical staff may have cost Thomas $100 million.

Its incumbant upon a player that if a team medical staff is telling them they are good to go, and they feel they aren't, like there is continued pain, discomfort or whatever, for them to seek 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions to get the medical care they feel best about so they can return and be the best they can be. That way the team gets the best of the player and the player maximizes his chance at full health performance which maximizes his money making ability.

Kawhi is doing what's best for Kawhi. I, for one, respect that.

I recently talked with a neuropsychologist that did a lot of the concussion testing for the Cleveland Browns some years ago.  I asked how often he suspected that guys would 'fake good' to get back on the field.  He said the opposite was actually more common -- guys 'faking bad' to avoid further injury, especially in a contract year. 

I don't know how often it occurs or whether there's a difference in sports.  But there's no doubt a strong incentive for players to protect their health for longevity.  Worse, with how often trade demands have been granted lately, it seems like players have an increasingly ability to use health issues/treatment as leverage. 

I agree with you that players should listen to their bodies and get as many opinions as they can.  But at what point does the player gain too much power in these decisions?  When does ownership lose their ability to manage a team and its players?  What safeguards can be put into place so that a player doesn't collect $20 million in a season for not playing by choice rather than necessity?
I have 3 friends who are ex-pro athletes. I have two friends deep in Division I sports. Have to say I don't believe your doctor friend based on stories I have heard. Players want to play and almost all the time have to be held back against their will so they don't try to play while injured and injure themselves more.

And ultimately, it is ALWAYS, the player that has last say as to when he or she can return once they get injured. Medical staffs are beholden to teams and make decisions based on the best interests of the team. It is the player that has to make the best decision based on their best interests.

That's what Kawhi is doing here. That's not quitting. That's doing what is in his best interest.

What happens if in 2 months they discover he has some degenerative tendon disease and if he had played he could have done permanent damage to his leg? Everyone is going to seem pretty stupid then. Look at what happened to IT. The team said play through it, it won't be anything that can't be fixed through resting in the off season. He played. It got worse. He tried rest. It didn't work. He now needs surgery and now he will be about $100 million less rich.

Players gotta look out for themselves, first and foremost, then the team after that.

The players who choose this motto are the last people you give max contracts to.

I'm willing to bet if it was your health and well-being on the line you wouldnt say that.

Just look at IT, he practically traded a better career for what, to go further by 1 more round? I cannot believe people are so willingly open to risks when it is not their own body on the line.

Re: ESPN asking about idea of trading Tatum and Brown for Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #122 on: April 21, 2018, 09:29:20 AM »

Online Roy H.

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There is nothing remotely similar with Kyries trade request .... which was done in the off season and had a preexisting condition everyone was already aware of.  He also wanted to leave for legacy issues and getting out of LBJ'S shadow.  Kawhi is simply worried that he might have an injury linger into next season and ONLY cares about how this might theoretically affect  his next big paycheck, while not not even trying to earn his current on,

So one “quit” due to ego, and the other due to the desire not to see his career shortened due to injury?

Kyrie did a bad thing, if you care about loyalty to one’s team. Kawhi potentially is doing a bad thing, too. It just doesn’t make sense to hold loyalty and honoring one’s contract as sacrosanct in one case, but not the other.

Sorry, but offering a false premise and then someone saying "Amen" to it, does nothing to make the statement correct. I also am not feeling the Kyrie hate coming from you guys either.

Kyrie never "quit" anything. He verbalized a desire for change in the off season, and backed that with the simple fact he needed surgery sooner rather than later, and that might eventually be a better route than playing his last year on a team that had already been shopping him, and a team he had no interest in playing for.  He gave his franchise ample prewarning, a robust list of teams he would prefer to go to, and let management get on with getting the best deal they could get. By the end they got what most people considered a kings ransom for him.

He "quit" on Noone ... not a single game ...  and after the trade muddled through 75% of the regular season on a bum wheel before he AND management decided to just get things fixed this year and be back 100% next year, when Hayward is hopefully back and the young ones ... get some seasoning this year.

There is no record of him quitting on anyone ... in Cleveland or Boston.

Kawhi on the other hand, QUIT.  He received doctors clearance from what most people believe to be one of the most upright and professional organizations in professional sports.

He still quit. 

Reportedly his teammates, some being legendary veterans in the twilight of their careers, begged him to play.

He still quit.

He quit through most of the regular seasons and apparently all the playoffs too.

Why? 

He does not want to risk his potential supermax bonus .... and apparently this is the major issue.

Perhaps it was a blackmailing attempt to force the spurs hand on this.  He took millions to not play and left his team, teammates, and paying fans in the lurch. Maybe he was just being extra cautious. But whatever it was ... he quit.

I don't want this self-entitled clown anywhere near Celtics Green, unless it is images of him still in black and getting posterized by JT and JB etc.

The Continued attempts to parallel this with Kyrie's desire for mobility and getting out of LBJs shadow (and get some real coaching) .... bear no comparison to Kawhi sabotage of his team.

I don't mean to sound so Cantankerous, I just find the comparison  incredibly weak.

Game 3 cannot start soon enough .... tonight will be tough.

He didnt quit. He hasn't even started. Easy for people like you to risk other peiple's livelihood. His injury was mismanaged by the staff, why should he continue to trust them?! If it was you you'd risk millions despite being mismanaged by their doctors? That's dumb.

Nonsense.  He is being payed many millions to do his job ... this year.  He is refusing to do that. If you think that San Antonio medical staff and external doctors mismanaged his case, you need to post credible references/proof.
The proof is he is still in pain, receiving medical treatment and having doctors do more and more tests to get a 100% accurate diagnosis as to why Kawhi is in pain and feels the knee is not right.

Team medical staffs get diagnosis' wrong a bunch. Do we have to look any farther than the Celtics own medical staff and the way they handled IT last year and KG in 2009? The Boston medical staff may have cost Thomas $100 million.

Its incumbant upon a player that if a team medical staff is telling them they are good to go, and they feel they aren't, like there is continued pain, discomfort or whatever, for them to seek 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions to get the medical care they feel best about so they can return and be the best they can be. That way the team gets the best of the player and the player maximizes his chance at full health performance which maximizes his money making ability.

Kawhi is doing what's best for Kawhi. I, for one, respect that.

I recently talked with a neuropsychologist that did a lot of the concussion testing for the Cleveland Browns some years ago.  I asked how often he suspected that guys would 'fake good' to get back on the field.  He said the opposite was actually more common -- guys 'faking bad' to avoid further injury, especially in a contract year. 

I don't know how often it occurs or whether there's a difference in sports.  But there's no doubt a strong incentive for players to protect their health for longevity.  Worse, with how often trade demands have been granted lately, it seems like players have an increasingly ability to use health issues/treatment as leverage. 

I agree with you that players should listen to their bodies and get as many opinions as they can.  But at what point does the player gain too much power in these decisions?  When does ownership lose their ability to manage a team and its players?  What safeguards can be put into place so that a player doesn't collect $20 million in a season for not playing by choice rather than necessity?
I have 3 friends who are ex-pro athletes. I have two friends deep in Division I sports. Have to say I don't believe your doctor friend based on stories I have heard. Players want to play and almost all the time have to be held back against their will so they don't try to play while injured and injure themselves more.

And ultimately, it is ALWAYS, the player that has last say as to when he or she can return once they get injured. Medical staffs are beholden to teams and make decisions based on the best interests of the team. It is the player that has to make the best decision based on their best interests.

That's what Kawhi is doing here. That's not quitting. That's doing what is in his best interest.

What happens if in 2 months they discover he has some degenerative tendon disease and if he had played he could have done permanent damage to his leg? Everyone is going to seem pretty stupid then. Look at what happened to IT. The team said play through it, it won't be anything that can't be fixed through resting in the off season. He played. It got worse. He tried rest. It didn't work. He now needs surgery and now he will be about $100 million less rich.

Players gotta look out for themselves, first and foremost, then the team after that.

The players who choose this motto are the last people you give max contracts to.

I'm willing to bet if it was your health and well-being on the line you wouldnt say that.

Just look at IT, he practically traded a better career for what, to go further by 1 more round? I cannot believe people are so willingly open to risks when it is not their own body on the line.

Yeah, the IT example has to resonate with every injured player. The team misdiagnosed him, he played through injury, and now he’s a journeyman. He lost tens of millions of dollars, and got dumped by the team he was loyal to.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: ESPN asking about idea of trading Tatum and Brown for Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #123 on: April 21, 2018, 10:14:01 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
The team misdiagnosed him, he played through injury, and now he’s a journeyman. He lost tens of millions of dollars, and got dumped by the team he was loyal to.

May 20 2017

Quote
Chris Mannix of The Vertical previously called the injury "significant" and noted there were doubts within the Celtics organization regarding whether Thomas could play Game 7 of the last round, let alone continue in this series after he left Game 2 early.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2710816-isaiah-thomas-out-for-rest-of-2017-nba-postseason-with-hip-injury

I don't think that we wanted him to play.   I think that is the narrative that he is putting out there.


May 21 2017
Quote
Celtics chief medical officer Dr. Brian McKeon said the team and its superstar guard did everything possible to keep him on the court since he originally suffered the injury in March.

"Isaiah has worked tirelessly to manage this injury since it first occurred," he said. "The swelling increased during the first two games against Cleveland, and in order to avoid more significant long-term damage to his hip, we could no longer allow him to continue."

Joe Wolfond of The Score passed along comments Stevens made to reporters Sunday about the situation.

Quote
"I think it could be [surgery]," Stevens said. "It just depends on what happens when he visits the specialist."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2710920-isaiah-thomas-could-need-surgery-on-hip-injury-according-to-brad-stevens

I know IT is saying this or that now, but I am not sure that it went down exactly as he claims.  The answer as usual is somewhere in the middle.

May 24, 2017

Quote
The Celtics guard met with a hip specialist Tuesday to determine whether surgery would be necessary to repair his injured hip.

"His X-rays and all of the information that they gathered is being sent to another specialist," Celtics coach Brad Stevens told reporters prior to Tuesday's game in Cleveland. "I think he's probably going to collect one to two more opinions and then go from there before he ultimately makes a decision on the next step, whether that next step is surgery or a specific rehab program, whatever the case may be.

"But he's still obviously really sore... the last [doctor] said that some of the inflammation that he has has to go down before they can make the final call."

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-playoffs-2017-celtics-isaiah-thomas-hip-injury-surgery-specialists/108pm06uo001x1lpds4njfq7hl


May 25, 2017

Quote
“We don’t know if he needs surgery or what kind of surgery, or if that is a choice. We’ll wait until the hip calms down, do more tests and get more opinions,” said Ainge. “We’ll be able to take our time and get more opinions. Everyone agrees that if there is anything that needs to be done to it surgically, once the hip calms down it’s much better to do the surgery. … The recovery time will be much quicker.”

Ainge said Thomas battled the injury for much of the second half of the season, but powered through it to help Boston earn the No. 1 seed in the Eastern Conference and a trip to the East finals.

“He had really good days and days where he was more sore, but he would always rally. He’d play in games and on days it was sore he’d go out and score 35 and look explosive, like there was nothing wrong with it,” said Ainge. “He finished the second half of the season with some periodic discomfort, but I wasn’t too worried until Game 6 of the Wizards series, where I thought he might not play in Game 7. There was that possibility in my mind, but never in Isaiah’s.

“He was just determined; it was iffy if our medical staff would allow him to play but he was so determined. I was worried going into the Cleveland series and he was nowhere near himself in Game 1 or 2. In Game 2 in the second quarter, it was clear he was in a lot of pain and we couldn’t let him play the second half,” said Ainge, adding it would have been “irresponsible” for the team to let Thomas play anymore.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/05/25/celtics-danny-ainge-isaiah-thomas-hip-injury-possible-surgery/


Face it, IT did not want to get the surgery held off and it also was a part of him losing millions.

I still don't think we are trading Tatum and Brown.

Re: ESPN asking about idea of trading Tatum and Brown for Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #124 on: April 21, 2018, 10:35:54 AM »

Online Roy H.

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The team misdiagnosed him, he played through injury, and now he’s a journeyman. He lost tens of millions of dollars, and got dumped by the team he was loyal to.

May 20 2017

Quote
Chris Mannix of The Vertical previously called the injury "significant" and noted there were doubts within the Celtics organization regarding whether Thomas could play Game 7 of the last round, let alone continue in this series after he left Game 2 early.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2710816-isaiah-thomas-out-for-rest-of-2017-nba-postseason-with-hip-injury

I don't think that we wanted him to play.   I think that is the narrative that he is putting out there.


May 21 2017
Quote
Celtics chief medical officer Dr. Brian McKeon said the team and its superstar guard did everything possible to keep him on the court since he originally suffered the injury in March.

"Isaiah has worked tirelessly to manage this injury since it first occurred," he said. "The swelling increased during the first two games against Cleveland, and in order to avoid more significant long-term damage to his hip, we could no longer allow him to continue."

Joe Wolfond of The Score passed along comments Stevens made to reporters Sunday about the situation.

Quote
"I think it could be [surgery]," Stevens said. "It just depends on what happens when he visits the specialist."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2710920-isaiah-thomas-could-need-surgery-on-hip-injury-according-to-brad-stevens

I know IT is saying this or that now, but I am not sure that it went down exactly as he claims.  The answer as usual is somewhere in the middle.

May 24, 2017

Quote
The Celtics guard met with a hip specialist Tuesday to determine whether surgery would be necessary to repair his injured hip.

"His X-rays and all of the information that they gathered is being sent to another specialist," Celtics coach Brad Stevens told reporters prior to Tuesday's game in Cleveland. "I think he's probably going to collect one to two more opinions and then go from there before he ultimately makes a decision on the next step, whether that next step is surgery or a specific rehab program, whatever the case may be.

"But he's still obviously really sore... the last [doctor] said that some of the inflammation that he has has to go down before they can make the final call."

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-playoffs-2017-celtics-isaiah-thomas-hip-injury-surgery-specialists/108pm06uo001x1lpds4njfq7hl


May 25, 2017

Quote
“We don’t know if he needs surgery or what kind of surgery, or if that is a choice. We’ll wait until the hip calms down, do more tests and get more opinions,” said Ainge. “We’ll be able to take our time and get more opinions. Everyone agrees that if there is anything that needs to be done to it surgically, once the hip calms down it’s much better to do the surgery. … The recovery time will be much quicker.”

Ainge said Thomas battled the injury for much of the second half of the season, but powered through it to help Boston earn the No. 1 seed in the Eastern Conference and a trip to the East finals.

“He had really good days and days where he was more sore, but he would always rally. He’d play in games and on days it was sore he’d go out and score 35 and look explosive, like there was nothing wrong with it,” said Ainge. “He finished the second half of the season with some periodic discomfort, but I wasn’t too worried until Game 6 of the Wizards series, where I thought he might not play in Game 7. There was that possibility in my mind, but never in Isaiah’s.

“He was just determined; it was iffy if our medical staff would allow him to play but he was so determined. I was worried going into the Cleveland series and he was nowhere near himself in Game 1 or 2. In Game 2 in the second quarter, it was clear he was in a lot of pain and we couldn’t let him play the second half,” said Ainge, adding it would have been “irresponsible” for the team to let Thomas play anymore.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/05/25/celtics-danny-ainge-isaiah-thomas-hip-injury-possible-surgery/


Face it, IT did not want to get the surgery held off and it also was a part of him losing millions.

I still don't think we are trading Tatum and Brown.

The team misdiagnosed him in December, and he played on it for months.

And, if the Celts had wanted to sit IT, they would have.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: ESPN asking about idea of trading Tatum and Brown for Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #125 on: April 21, 2018, 12:36:05 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Can't help but think that you're Kawhi, with the dual-goal of becoming a CsBlog mod AND getting traded to the Celts within the same year.  (kidding)


Lol....that's pretty funny. No. I just think we lose the perspective that these players are people too, working for money for a large corporation. If a former employer of mine told me their paid for doctors cleared me to return to work due to a workers compensation accident, but I felt I was still in pain and not ready to be able to do my job, I would get a lawyer to protect my rights, my job, and my ability to make money in the future and not return to work.

I don't see where that's all that different, in many ways, to what Kawhi is doing. He needs to protect his own self and future ability to make money first, then once healthy enough to perform, his priority should be going to help his team win.

There is clearly contention between Kawhi and the team, probably stemming from the team standing behind the diagnosis of their medical team and Kawhi not agreeing with that diagnosis and not wanting to put his next 9 figure contract in jeopardy.

I don't find that to be quitting on his team.
I don't see Kyrie going to the Cavs and asking to be traded in the offseason as quitting on his team.
I don't see Eric Bledsoe demanding a trade during the season as quitting on the team.
I don't see players like Greg Monroe, Dwyane Wade and others asking for a buyout so they can play elsewhere as quitting on a team.

Those are things at the disposal of the player, due to the CBA, to get to move to other teams if the aren't happy with where they currently are while they are still under contract. I have no problem with any of those things.

Re: ESPN asking about idea of trading Tatum and Brown for Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #126 on: April 21, 2018, 01:16:49 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Quote
The team misdiagnosed him, he played through injury, and now he’s a journeyman. He lost tens of millions of dollars, and got dumped by the team he was loyal to.

May 20 2017

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Chris Mannix of The Vertical previously called the injury "significant" and noted there were doubts within the Celtics organization regarding whether Thomas could play Game 7 of the last round, let alone continue in this series after he left Game 2 early.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2710816-isaiah-thomas-out-for-rest-of-2017-nba-postseason-with-hip-injury

I don't think that we wanted him to play.   I think that is the narrative that he is putting out there.


May 21 2017
Quote
Celtics chief medical officer Dr. Brian McKeon said the team and its superstar guard did everything possible to keep him on the court since he originally suffered the injury in March.

"Isaiah has worked tirelessly to manage this injury since it first occurred," he said. "The swelling increased during the first two games against Cleveland, and in order to avoid more significant long-term damage to his hip, we could no longer allow him to continue."

Joe Wolfond of The Score passed along comments Stevens made to reporters Sunday about the situation.

Quote
"I think it could be [surgery]," Stevens said. "It just depends on what happens when he visits the specialist."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2710920-isaiah-thomas-could-need-surgery-on-hip-injury-according-to-brad-stevens

I know IT is saying this or that now, but I am not sure that it went down exactly as he claims.  The answer as usual is somewhere in the middle.

May 24, 2017

Quote
The Celtics guard met with a hip specialist Tuesday to determine whether surgery would be necessary to repair his injured hip.

"His X-rays and all of the information that they gathered is being sent to another specialist," Celtics coach Brad Stevens told reporters prior to Tuesday's game in Cleveland. "I think he's probably going to collect one to two more opinions and then go from there before he ultimately makes a decision on the next step, whether that next step is surgery or a specific rehab program, whatever the case may be.

"But he's still obviously really sore... the last [doctor] said that some of the inflammation that he has has to go down before they can make the final call."

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-playoffs-2017-celtics-isaiah-thomas-hip-injury-surgery-specialists/108pm06uo001x1lpds4njfq7hl


May 25, 2017

Quote
“We don’t know if he needs surgery or what kind of surgery, or if that is a choice. We’ll wait until the hip calms down, do more tests and get more opinions,” said Ainge. “We’ll be able to take our time and get more opinions. Everyone agrees that if there is anything that needs to be done to it surgically, once the hip calms down it’s much better to do the surgery. … The recovery time will be much quicker.”

Ainge said Thomas battled the injury for much of the second half of the season, but powered through it to help Boston earn the No. 1 seed in the Eastern Conference and a trip to the East finals.

“He had really good days and days where he was more sore, but he would always rally. He’d play in games and on days it was sore he’d go out and score 35 and look explosive, like there was nothing wrong with it,” said Ainge. “He finished the second half of the season with some periodic discomfort, but I wasn’t too worried until Game 6 of the Wizards series, where I thought he might not play in Game 7. There was that possibility in my mind, but never in Isaiah’s.

“He was just determined; it was iffy if our medical staff would allow him to play but he was so determined. I was worried going into the Cleveland series and he was nowhere near himself in Game 1 or 2. In Game 2 in the second quarter, it was clear he was in a lot of pain and we couldn’t let him play the second half,” said Ainge, adding it would have been “irresponsible” for the team to let Thomas play anymore.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/05/25/celtics-danny-ainge-isaiah-thomas-hip-injury-possible-surgery/


Face it, IT did not want to get the surgery held off and it also was a part of him losing millions.

I still don't think we are trading Tatum and Brown.

TP, this narrative has gotten way out of hand.

By his own admission IT has abnormal hips:

"In late May, Thomas revealed to ESPN's Chris Forsberg that doctors have known for some time his hip bones are not normal. "Like I have an extra bone or something, like doctor talk," Thomas said. "I don't understand what they're saying.""

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/isaiah-thomas-injury-potentially/story?id=49668897


And his issues are at least partially chronic, he's been dealing with hip problems "for years."

One source with direct knowledge of Thomas' hip condition told The Athletic last week that he is dealing with more than just a tear. Some of those secondary issues in the hip he has played with for years now, such as a loss of cartilage and some arthritis, are complicating his healing process.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cavs-guard-isaiah-thomas-has-reportedly-played-with-hip-injury-for-years-now/


Bottom line is that he has poor hips and he likely had his own agendas when declining surgery and continuing to play.

Re: ESPN asking about idea of trading Tatum and Brown for Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #127 on: May 16, 2018, 02:49:23 PM »

Online rondofan1255

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hope C's just roll with Brown/Hayward/Tatum :D

Kawhi injured and FA coming up? no thanks!