Author Topic: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??  (Read 1002 times)

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Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« on: May 16, 2018, 10:01:10 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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We have Jaylen Brown who IMO has the ceiling to become like Kawhi Leonard with more athleticism.

That's amazing considering I originally thought his ceiling was Jimmy Butler, but dare I say he already looks better than Jimmy Butler (or at least, at his level now with his two-way play and impact)  :o

Yes, Brown still needs to prove himself by being more consistent, but the guy has been a huge reason we're up 2-0 this series, and watching him match Lebron on the other end while Lebron was going OFF was just pure beast mode. He's just 21 years old!

And here's an amusing stat:

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Jaylen Brown has 23.0 PPG through two games this series. The record for highest PPG in a full conference finals series by a player younger than 22-years-old is Kobe Bryant's 20.4 PPG in 2000.

Obviously that average can drop and there's still the rest of the series to go, but that just shows how legit Jaylen can become.

Again.. who needs Kawhi? Ainge shouldn't be spending too much time with the Spurs FO if they call asking about interest in Kawhi.

Would Kawhi be a nice add? Absolutely. Top-5 player when healthy. But at a trade price involving 2 of Kings Pick/Brown/Tatum? LOL nope. Keep this team/core relatively intact with Kyrie and Hayward also coming back.  ;D
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Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2018, 10:09:20 AM »

Offline Ed Hollison

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Brown's absolute ceiling is what Kawhi Leonard is now. But I agree with you. I wouldn't trade Brown + salary for Leonard straight up right now, because:

1) I'm not sure about Leonard's injury.
2) I"m not sure where Leonard's head is at after this weird year in San Antonio.
3) Brown is on a rookie salary for two more years, after which he can only be paid up to 25% of the cap (Leonard would be 35%).
4) Brown can defend speedy guards. He's perfect for what the Celtics want to do defensively. Leonard is a superb defender, but if you replace Brown with Leonard alongside Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford then you've really got no SG and might struggle against the quicker backcourts in the league.

I really like Brown. Dude works his tail off and his learning curve is super steep.
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Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2018, 10:13:52 AM »

Offline bopna

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The only player that is worth giving up either JB or Tatum at this point is AD.

JB is indeed at the level of Butler right now this is why we arr up on the Cavs. Because offensively we are keeping up and matching their intensity and then some more.. Tatum hasn't even broken out yet and he will be due to his customary 20 point games in either games 3 or 4.

I really hope we sweep em so the lrague would finally recognize the reslience of these Celtic squad.

Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2018, 10:15:20 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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Brown's absolute ceiling is what Kawhi Leonard is now. But I agree with you. I wouldn't trade Brown + salary for Leonard straight up right now, because:

1) I'm not sure about Leonard's injury.
2) I"m not sure where Leonard's head is at after this weird year in San Antonio.
3) Brown is on a rookie salary for two more years, after which he can only be paid up to 25% of the cap (Leonard would be 35%).
4) Brown can defend speedy guards. He's perfect for what the Celtics want to do defensively. Leonard is a superb defender, but if you replace Brown with Leonard alongside Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford then you've really got no SG and might struggle against the quicker backcourts in the league.

I really like Brown. Dude works his tail off and his learning curve is super steep.

All of this. Full-strength Kawhi is the real deal - better than Jaylen is today. But we don't know if Kawhi is ever going to be full strength again, Jaylen is already really good and getting better, and he's a heck of a lot easier on our cap space.

Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2018, 12:25:38 PM »

Offline cman88

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Jaylen is also much younger. Hes 21....kawhi is 27. You have a much longer window with brown.

And if kawhi cant get along playing for pop is that the guy you want on this team?

Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2018, 12:40:27 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Kawhi is an overrated player. Without Duncan he doesnít win a ring

Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2018, 01:10:11 PM »

Offline cltc5

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Yea Iím good with what we have.  Also manageable contracts for the next few years

Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2018, 01:18:52 PM »

Offline libermaniac

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That's amazing considering I originally thought his ceiling was Jimmy Butler, but dare I say he already looks better than Jimmy Butler (or at least, at his level now with his two-way play and impact)  :o
Funny you make that comparison as I traded away Butler for Brown (and his cheaper contract and one additional year) in my keeper fantasy league.  I made that bet too.

Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2018, 01:23:32 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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We can go back and forth all day about the value, talent, and ability of Kawhi and anyone who might be traded for him from the Celts.  And I think one could easily conclude that Kawhi is better than Brown or tatum will ever be and might be worth trading for.

But unless you're willing to take a deep dive into all the ramifications, then you're discussing things blindly.  How do we match salaries, what would be the tax ramifications now and into the future, nevermind team chemistry.  These things matter more than the actual players.

Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2018, 01:23:48 PM »

Offline footey

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ALOT of bloggers here put Butler as Jaylenís ceiling. Never made sense to me since Jaylen is superior athlete. Not even close. Not to diminish high skill level of Butler though. In that regard Jaylen has more room to grow (eg free throw shooting).

Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2018, 01:23:53 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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Leonard is a special talent, but I've always scratched my head about the hype he gets. He is definitely a premier defensive talent in the NBA. His feel, athleticism, and drive are elite on that end.

I've always been suspect about his offense.

- His ball handling is rigid and he really doesn't have a lot of crafty moves.
- He relies on too many jumpshots for his points.
- His FTR is below average for a scorer of his level (averages .3, with a career high during last season).
- He relies too much on his athleticism to shoot over guys or to drive to the rim. There is a long list of guys who rely on their athleticism whose career falls off the cliff between 27-31.

I kinda' think Leonard has been overrated the past few years. He is probably a top 10-15 player in the NBA, but it's not like he is Kevin Durant on offense.

If, for instance, he goes to the Lakers with Lebron and/or George, I expect his scoring numbers to hover around 18-20 with elite defense for a few seasons. That is still a really good player, but not at the same level as many consider him.

Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2018, 01:26:53 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The only thing that would stop me from making a trade for Kawhi would be that his injury is degenerative and it will effect his play and availability long term.

Now I would be willing to give up Tatum rather than Brown, salary filler(like maybe a S&T Smart) and any picks they want other than Sactown.

Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2018, 01:40:14 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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The only thing that would stop me from making a trade for Kawhi would be that his injury is degenerative and it will effect his play and availability long term.

Now I would be willing to give up Tatum rather than Brown, salary filler(like maybe a S&T Smart) and any picks they want other than Sactown.
I wouldn't simply from the standpoint that Brown and Tatum look to be all-star level players.  maybe neither becomes quite as good as peak-Kawhi but I don't think there's going to be a really big talent gap to justify that trade.  Also, considering we still have Hayward, we're really all set on the wing.   

If Brown or Tatum were to be traded, I would only consider one player to be an acceptable target -- Anthony Davis.  He would fill a position where we could use an upgrade and would actually be a major upgrade to whomever we play at PF/C (including Al).  I'm not saying Davis is available or compiling an actual trade that works salary wise but Davis is the only player that offers a significant enough upgrade in an area of weakness that justifies trading either Brown or Tatum.

Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2018, 02:09:18 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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When you consider how much Brown has evolved and improved his game in one season, it is mind-blowing. His ceiling might eventually be his own. He will only improve over the next 4-6 years, imagine who he will be then. His stats are in rarified air early into this series. He is in the ECF and shining like a veteran star on both sides of the floor.

Tatum is in his first year and is eons better then a slew of veterans. His ceiling will also be his own doing. Brown and Tatum combined will be something in five years when Hayward and Horford are expiring. We will have a ton of options and a lot of playoff history for everyone to shine brightly.

I personally, would not pick up the phone for anyone not named Davis. We have our cost controlled star rookies/young one's matched nicely with our 3 max players. Sounds like Heaven to me...oh, by the way, a ton of draft picks coming in case Danny gets the itch to shake something up down the road or maybe we luck into the 2 pick next year and some Center prospect reveals himself to Danny in a Dream.

Re: Seriously, Who Needs Kawhi??
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2018, 02:13:07 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Kawhi is an overrated player. Without Duncan he doesnít win a ring

No, he is underrated. He has proven himself to be a top 5 player, yet threads like these, and posts like yours exists. He averaged 25ppg on almost 49% shooting last season while playing DPOY defense.

Its reasonable not to want him based on injury, age, cost and worry about the recent reports. EDIT: Do not insult others

BTW, do you think Lebron wouldve won a ring without Wade or Kyrie? See how your logic fails?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 04:36:01 PM by nickagneta »