Author Topic: Danny has built a contender  (Read 1692 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2018, 08:50:28 AM »

Offline BitterJim

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • Tommy Points: 732
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.
Don't get me wrong, there are stretches where Boston can't score and Irving is a master at that, but I think Hayward would also help that a great deal and unlike Irving, Hayward has a more team friendly offensive style and isn't a liability on the defensive end.  I just wonder if those Irving for Leonard trade rumors have some actual fire to them and aren't just nonsense to fill the time.

I can't see us trading Kyrie for Kawhi with the glut of wings we have now. If we were going to trade him (which we aren't), he would need to be traded for another guard or a big
I'm bitter.

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2018, 08:51:58 AM »

Offline Androslav

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1620
  • Tommy Points: 283
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.
That's just Moranis missing Kyrie in Cleveland now.
If a girl doesn't like you (Kyrie leaving Cleveland), then you say you never liked her in the first place (Cavs fans telling Kyries mistakes) and with time you might make yourself believe that.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2018, 08:52:01 AM »

Offline Sophomore

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 859
  • Tommy Points: 147
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Sounds a lot like Rozier, but Kyrie is better

If I had a way to turn Kyrie into Jaren Jackson and an expiring contract or two I would be really, really tempted. Run it back adding one all-star wing to this year's playoff team and our center/PF of the future. But I don't think there is a way to do that.

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2018, 08:53:19 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5283
  • Tommy Points: 518
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
The notion trading Kyrie makes us better.. get real.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2018, 08:59:49 AM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24087
  • Tommy Points: 1060
  • What a Pub Should Be
I think it's been blatantly obvious for months but this run certainly reinforces it.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2018, 09:03:23 AM »

Offline footey

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7865
  • Tommy Points: 960
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.
Don't get me wrong, there are stretches where Boston can't score and Irving is a master at that, but I think Hayward would also help that a great deal and unlike Irving, Hayward has a more team friendly offensive style and isn't a liability on the defensive end.  I just wonder if those Irving for Leonard trade rumors have some actual fire to them and aren't just nonsense to fill the time.

Youíre not exactly describing a Popovich type of player either.

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2018, 09:50:51 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19337
  • Tommy Points: 915
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.
Don't get me wrong, there are stretches where Boston can't score and Irving is a master at that, but I think Hayward would also help that a great deal and unlike Irving, Hayward has a more team friendly offensive style and isn't a liability on the defensive end.  I just wonder if those Irving for Leonard trade rumors have some actual fire to them and aren't just nonsense to fill the time.

Youíre not exactly describing a Popovich type of player either.
Nope, but if Leonard tells them he is leaving, and with Pop not having much time left, then Irving would make a great deal of sense in a straight up swap (or only minor other pieces exchanging hands). 

Rozier is clearly not as good as Irving as an overall player, but he seems to have a nice chemistry with the other starters, has completely bought into the Stevens offense, and is a better defender.  All of that has made Brown and Tatum much better offensive players and allowed them more freedom defensively (since they aren't covering for Irving).  I don't think it is a coincidence that Irving goes down and Brown all of a sudden looks like a #1 scoring option and Tatum has exploded with confidence.  I just don't know if Irving's ball dominance has a place in this offense.  I never would have thought I would be saying that, but watching the way this team has played without Irving, I'm really not sure he has a place and if Boston can get some other better fitting piece, I'd absolutely consider it.

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2018, 10:20:15 AM »

Offline Sophomore

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 859
  • Tommy Points: 147
I agree with what Moranis is saying. I guess the question is how all this looks to Kyrie. He left Cleveland so he could be the alpha. Now he's watching what the young guns can do when they get a lot of room. How does he see himself fitting in when he comes back? Clearly, it can't be the way it was early this year. How does he see himself sharing the ball with three other scorers(!) who are either established all-stars (Hayward) or players trending that way fast (Brown and Tatum). Al is a swiss army knife - his awesomeness is, in part, his willingness to do whatever needs doing. Does Kyrie have that in him? Does he want to? I don't know.


Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2018, 10:23:21 AM »

Offline triboy16f

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20564
  • Tommy Points: 519
I agree with what Moranis is saying. I guess the question is how all this looks to Kyrie. He left Cleveland so he could be the alpha. Now he's watching what the young guns can do when they get a lot of room. How does he see himself fitting in when he comes back? Clearly, it can't be the way it was early this year. How does he see himself sharing the ball with three other scorers(!) who are either established all-stars (Hayward) or players trending that way fast (Brown and Tatum). Al is a swiss army knife - his awesomeness is, in part, his willingness to do whatever needs doing. Does Kyrie have that in him? Does he want to? I don't know.

Good questions... Kyrie also won't be playing "optimal" if he doesn't have the ball in his hands/shooting alot

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2018, 10:27:08 AM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9237
  • Tommy Points: 586
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
I agree with what Moranis is saying. I guess the question is how all this looks to Kyrie. He left Cleveland so he could be the alpha. Now he's watching what the young guns can do when they get a lot of room. How does he see himself fitting in when he comes back? Clearly, it can't be the way it was early this year. How does he see himself sharing the ball with three other scorers(!) who are either established all-stars (Hayward) or players trending that way fast (Brown and Tatum). Al is a swiss army knife - his awesomeness is, in part, his willingness to do whatever needs doing. Does Kyrie have that in him? Does he want to? I don't know.
Nobody knows, but you have to figure the pressure is taken off him by having 4 other legit scorers on the floor, most of the time.  That should giver him better looks and he doesn't always have to create his own shot.  What superstar wouldn't want that?

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2018, 10:31:31 AM »

Offline Erik

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 758
  • Tommy Points: 135
  • The voice of reason
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

It's always a good idea to a have Plan C:
The play broke down, no easy shots, pass the ball to Kyrie and take the 46.2% that he makes it.

You're forgetting that Kyrie was part of the ball rotation except during those Plan C moments and the final 5 minutes.

The largest ball stopper is actually Marcus Morris.

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2018, 10:32:53 AM »

Offline Sophomore

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 859
  • Tommy Points: 147
I agree with what Moranis is saying. I guess the question is how all this looks to Kyrie. He left Cleveland so he could be the alpha. Now he's watching what the young guns can do when they get a lot of room. How does he see himself fitting in when he comes back? Clearly, it can't be the way it was early this year. How does he see himself sharing the ball with three other scorers(!) who are either established all-stars (Hayward) or players trending that way fast (Brown and Tatum). Al is a swiss army knife - his awesomeness is, in part, his willingness to do whatever needs doing. Does Kyrie have that in him? Does he want to? I don't know.
Nobody knows, but you have to figure the pressure is taken off him by having 4 other legit scorers on the floor, most of the time.  That should giver him better looks and he doesn't always have to create his own shot.  What superstar wouldn't want that?

Russell Westbrook. Maybe LeBron. Hard to say.

I really don't know either. It's going to be next year's most interesting question. If everybody buys in and we hold on to Smart, this team could absolutely steamroll next year. A starting five that should be at least equal to Golden State, and a bench that is much, much better. 

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2018, 10:39:45 AM »

Offline Kuberski33

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3690
  • Tommy Points: 190
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.
Kyrie is probably the one who has to make adjustments to the way he plays. But I expect him to do that.  He seems to be all in given his presence and support for his teammates during the playoffs.

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2018, 10:57:11 AM »

Offline mef730

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3112
  • Tommy Points: 548
I think Danny deals the pick.  No need with the potential of four next year:

Celtics 2019 first round pick plus

 2019 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 1st round pick to Boston (via Memphis) protected for selections 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if the L.A. Clippers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2020, then the L.A. Clippers will instead convey their 2022 2nd round pick to Boston [L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/18/2016; Boston-Memphis, 6/23/2016]

2019 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Boston protected for selections 1-8 in 2019 and 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 2021 [Boston-Memphis-New Orleans, 1/12/2015]

2019 first round draft pick from Philadelphia or Sacramento
Boston will receive the more favorable of Philadelphia's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 and Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick (via Philadelphia) protected for selection 1 and Philadelphia will receive the less favorable or the protected of these two picks [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015; Philadelphia-Sacramento, 7/9/2015; Boston-Philadelphia, 6/19/2017]
deal the pick for what though?  a pick in the late 20's isn't going to get much.  maybe for a pick in a later draft but who'd give up a future first that would likely be a higher pick than what the C's are giving up the year.  On the flip side, whoever they would draft this year is very likely Nader's replacement on the roster.  I don't think anyone would object to that trade-off.

As for the ones that could convey next year, they know they have their own and the Sac pick. 

Memphis should have Conley back as well as Gasol.  They have enough decent pieces to stay out of the bottom 8 so I don't see that conveying.  since that eventually becomes unprotected, that's a keeper.

The Clips pick may or may not convey.  they'd have to miss the playoffs which is a possibility out West for the next 2 years and then it becomes a second rounder.  of any of the picks the C's own, I would think this is the preferred one to move.

Memphis pick is 1-8 protected, so it does convey next year if they stay out of the bottom eight.

But I agree with the rest. The late draft picks alone won't get us much. Still, I don't know what we'd do with four next year.

Mike
Want to learn about frequent flyer miles and flying well for free? Check out my blog here: http://frequentflyermiles101.com/

Actually, check it out even if you don't want to. It'll make me feel good.

Re: Danny has built a contender
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2018, 10:59:32 AM »

Offline Casperian

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3437
  • Tommy Points: 531
Nah, the east is just incredibly weak. They're about as good as they were last season, which means they'll get destroyed by any of the good teams out west.
In the 2017 off-season, I predicted the Celtics will not win the title for the next 10 years.

1 down, 9 to go.