Author Topic: Interesting Statistical look at the Jordan vs. James G.O.A.T. debate  (Read 8829 times)

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Offline Moranis

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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23456720/is-lebron-james-michael-jordan-greatest-nba-player-all

Some pretty fascinating stuff in there.  Their ultimate conclusion is that "Jordan might have been better at his best, but James has already put together the best NBA career we've ever seen."
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Offline pearljammer10

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Jordan. The end.

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Imho, 6 time Finals MVP + 6-for-6 champion trumps all other statistics. 
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Offline Green-18

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Saw that yesterday.  It was an interesting read for sure.  I wonder how much LeBron's perceived shortcomings have influenced his drive to keep pushing forward.  The scrutiny never ends, which means that he will never run out of outside motivators. 

After Jordan's first three peat there was literally nothing left to accomplish from a competitive standpoint.  Jordan has mentioned how he needed to find unique ways to keep himself motivated.  It got to a point where everything was internal.  That search must have become very difficult once the outside scrutiny diminished. 


Offline Surferdad

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James will never catch Jordan in:
- number of rings
- number of Finals MVPs
- 3-peats

What he CAN do is
- win a ring with 3 different teams
- keep moving up in statistical categories

IMO, James currently in the top-5 all-time.  Whether he is ever GOAT remains to be seen but I doubt it.

Online Roy H.

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Imho, 6 time Finals MVP + 6-for-6 champion trumps all other statistics.

And realistically, there’s a good chance we’d be talking about 8-for-8 if he hadn’t pursued baseball.


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Offline Jvalin

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I don't think MJ is the GOAT. No matter how you look at it, there is not a single category in which he is the #1.

Greatest winner of all time? Bill Russell
Defender? Bill Russell
Most dominant? Wilt
Scorer? Kareem/Wilt
Shooter? Steph 
Ball handler? Not sure. Maybe Iverson/Pete Maravich/Kyrie? (definitely not MJ)
Rebounder? Wilt/Russell
Court vision? Magic/Stockton(?)
Most versatile? Magic/LeBron

Not saying MJ is not a GOAT candidate, but how on earth is he considered by so many people as the undisputed GOAT? If you ask me, it's all about the marketing.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 08:45:47 AM by Jvalin »

Offline Sketch5

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What a bunch of BS. These writers need nerd stats to make a case for their idol. Lebron has had a easier road since his Miami days, and even then they only won two out of four, and one of those two because Ray Allen saved his butt. But during that time the east got weak, Boston was getting old, and no one was stepping up. Since return to Cleveland he's one for three. While it's impressive to get to the finals that many times on paper, they need to start looking at the full picture.

Jordan had to go through tough Cavs teams,NY teams,Detrioit teams, and Indy teams. An NBA with hand checking and a era that it wasn't unusual for a player to play both ways. And Centers that played in the pant and were walking block parties. How many Mutombos, Ewings,Robinsons are in the league right now? Jordan dunked on all those guys. Even got a finger wag in before it was taken away from the league.

I still take Jordan every day of the week with out even thinking about it.

Online Roy H.

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I don't think MJ is the GOAT. No matter how you look at it, there is not a single category in which he is the #1.

Except for career points per game?


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Offline Jvalin

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I don't think MJ is the GOAT. No matter how you look at it, there is not a single category in which he is the #1.

Except for career points per game?
Haven't looked it up, but I'm pretty sure Wilt was better than MJ in this regard.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 09:11:46 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Interesting Statistical look at the Jordan vs. James G.O.A.T. debate
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2018, 08:47:47 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Imho, 6 time Finals MVP + 6-for-6 champion trumps all other statistics.

And realistically, there’s a good chance we’d be talking about 8-for-8 if he hadn’t pursued baseball.
I'm not so sure of that.  That whole team, but Jordan in particular, were incredibly burnt out after that first 3-Peat and the Bulls always struggled with Hakeem.  In fact, I believe I recall reading that Hakeem's Rockets were the 1 team during the entire 6 year title runs that didn't have a losing record against Chicago (they were an even 6-6 against each other with the Rockets winning the first 3-peat 5-1 and the Bulls winning the second one 5-1).  There is a very good chance the Rockets still ended up winning the title those 2 seasons and perhaps some of the following seasons as players like Horace Grant might not have left had Jordan not retired (and thus they don't add Rodman and who knows with Kukoc).  That also might have seriously altered Shaq's trajectory since Grant was an integral part of the Magic finals run.

Jordan retiring after the first 3-peat allowed the Bulls to reset, both from a roster construction standpoint and also just mentally and physically.  Long post-season runs are draining.  It takes a lot of out teams to keep it up year after year.  There is a very good chance that had Jordan not retired after the 1st 3-peat, that he doesn't end up 6 for 6 in Finals appearances.  Maybe he ends up with more, but I think it would have been less as they wouldn't have made the necessary roster moves that made that 2nd 3-peat the juggernaut that they were.
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Re: Interesting Statistical look at the Jordan vs. James G.O.A.T. debate
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2018, 08:48:35 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I don't think MJ is the GOAT. No matter how you look at it, there is not a single category in which he is the #1.

Except for career points per game?
I'm not gonna look it up, but I'm pretty sure Wilt was better than MJ in this regard.
Jordan is slightly better.  30.12 to 30.07. 
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Re: Interesting Statistical look at the Jordan vs. James G.O.A.T. debate
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2018, 08:52:31 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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I don't think MJ is the GOAT. No matter how you look at it, there is not a single category in which he is the #1.

Except for career points per game?
I'm not gonna look it up, but I'm pretty sure Wilt was better than MJ in this regard.
Jordan is slightly better.  30.12 to 30.07.
Fair enough. Do you guys believe MJ was a better scorer than Wilt? Cause I highly doubt it. I mean, the guy scored 100 points in one game. He finished the 1961/62 NBA season with an average of 50.4 points per game!

Not to mention, there is Kareem as well.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 09:00:26 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Interesting Statistical look at the Jordan vs. James G.O.A.T. debate
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2018, 08:56:08 AM »

Offline Sketch5

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Any Celtic fan saw with their own eyes why Jordan was greater than Lebron. We all saw Lebron quit on his team with over 7 minutes to go in the fourth against the C's before he bolted to Miami. A game that was still reachable.

You didn't see Jordan doing that. Heck, Reggie Millar probably pulled off one of the best comebacks I've ever seen single handley, and THAT game should have been out of reach. Greats compete to the end.


Re: Interesting Statistical look at the Jordan vs. James G.O.A.T. debate
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2018, 08:59:37 AM »

Offline Sketch5

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I don't think MJ is the GOAT. No matter how you look at it, there is not a single category in which he is the #1.

Except for career points per game?
I'm not gonna look it up, but I'm pretty sure Wilt was better than MJ in this regard.
Jordan is slightly better.  30.12 to 30.07.
Fair enough. Do you guys believe MJ was a better scorer than Wilt? Cause I highly doubt it. I mean, the guy scored 100 points in one game. He finished the 1961/62 NBA season with an average of 50.4 points per game!

Different era, less teams, and he was a giant compared to most centers then. He just jumped over guys from a few feet out and dropped it in.

 Jordan dunked on guys like Wilt.