Author Topic: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly  (Read 1663 times)

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Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« on: May 10, 2018, 06:10:55 PM »

Offline sawick48

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first of all, alliteration! yay!  now to business.

I spent parts of the past 24 hours sufing through the Liberty Ballers blog just to get a sense of what the dedicated 6ers fans mindset is following last night's loss. I (for some inexplicable reason) actually expected level headedness.  Something along the lines of "what a great season, but man there's a ton to work on to match up w the elites."  The first half of that sentiment was definitely prevalent, the latter half - barely existed save for a few guys.

Feeling like Sublime in the song All Mixed Up, it's morning but last night's comment section is on my mind and it's something I need to get off my chest:

What I was genuinely surprised to see over and over again was the shared idea that "Philly is the more talented and deeper group but Boston just outcoached them and was better disciplined."

I understand homerism.  And I know that if it's going to be anywhere, it'll be on boards hardcore fans like us and presumably they, post on.  But that statement....What?....WHAT?!

Ben Simmons is shot. I made a post about this after Game 3 saying I really felt this was a crossroads moment for his whole career as premature and naieve as that sounds, but I truly in my heart feel that his chance to be a 4th quarter closer or one of the top players in the league has come and gone.  And the biggest indicator of that for me was his body language in the biggest moments of games 2, 3, and 5 after things didn't go his/Philly's way.

His body language this whole series when things were going wrong was putrid.  I can't for the life of me remember any players that went on to be arguably the best of their era ever having body language so poor even during their rookie (or whatever you want to call it) seasons.  Certainly not during their postseason debuts.  He almost seems to give up in big moments, especially when he's been struggling all game.  I could go on but I already have previously but I have to ask, have LeBron, Steph, Harden, Durant, any of the guys that can be called arguably the best of the era EVER looked so p--- poor in big moments as young players during the outset of their careers, in terms of body language and being into the game at all times?  If so I honestly cannot remember.

That's not the look of a leader of a title team, certainly not of a transcendent player that can be the GOAT that all of social media is dying to crown him to be.

And as far as Philly's "superior depth and talent":  Embiid is great. Clearly. But I've never seen a 7 footer talk so much trash while shooting around 40% in a series; a series that his team lost especially.  Yea the 6ers are fun and nice, but GOOD GOD are they a ways away from being a title contender at any point in the near future. Think about the things they need to go right in the next season or two to enter that pantheon:

-Simmons needs to shoot, just in general he needs to develop some sort of jumper from somewhere on the court (which to my memory again has never taken less than 3-4 years for a player to develop a shot from scratch for one who had little shooting ability to begin with).  Without the ability to do anything away from the hoop, Stevens has completely exposed his game and written the book on how to slag off him to help elsewhere w/ his defender;

-Embiid needs to talk less and feast in the post more (which is entirely possible) while also staying healthy enough to get the minutes to play in big games and grow (also possible sure but his track record suggests this stretch of good health was more exception than rule)

- they need a 2nd creator. Fultz needs to give them something bc TJ McConnell is a nice story, but if he's your #2 playmaker, shocking spoiler alert, you aren't winning a title.  The Fultz stuff is a bigger deal than I think ppl realize.  I've been a patient of that same specialist's in KY for a very similar issue as to the one Fultz suffered.  If my rehab is anything similar to Markelle's, he's in a world of trouble.  Trust me.

- Covington needs to be either traded or improve drastically as a player in the playoffs; his consistency was off the charts.

- and they need depth. Championship caliber depth. Something so much easier said than done as we've watched Ainge search for this with complete roster overhauls year after year.

The icing on this is how the Philly fans view their upcoming offseason.  EVERYBODY and their mother seems to have the genius fix of "now we just need to entice LeBron" "Joel and Ben better be in Paul George's DMs right now." etc.  Again, I get excitement for a young core. Especially after a prolonged period of sub-mediocrity.  But man it was tough to keep quiet reading comment after comment about how Philly is the superior franchise in every way AND a premium FA destination with the rationale that they're a player or two away from being a championship contender.

Sure.

If that one player is LeBron then yea, everyone is 1 player away I guess.  Otherwise, color me in the camp that sees a regression from Philly next year.  Not back to the lottery, but they had a ton go right this year to get that 3 seed. It's great for the league, but to me this team has a long long ways to go still.  Sorry. Like I said, I had thoughts lol.

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2018, 06:21:03 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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They’re jokes of fans for the most part

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2018, 06:24:39 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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So i agree with the general sentiment, but the idea that Ben Simmons will never be a closer based on one playoff series in his age 21 season is arguably a worse take than any of the takes you mentioned from the 76er forums. I mean Lebron struggled at first in the playoffs too.

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2018, 06:26:09 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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That All Mixed Up song is by 311, not Sublime...lol, just sayin.

Simmons is not a closer in his ability and Embiid is not a closer because of his conditioning. He had one good 4th quarter of out 5 games against Boston, and that was game 4. Every 4th quarter, he was tired and slow. I don't know if a guy his size can do a whole lot to change this. Seems like he is who he is, which is still a very dominant, top 3 center in the league.

I agree with Simmons. Such a brat on the court. The wide open dunk he blew it on (game 2?) was basically what defined his immaturity in one play. He wanted so badly to make an impressive highlight slam to demoralize the Celtics, rather than get the needed gimmie 2 points. Every turnover or time he got scored on which led to a Philly timeout, you could see him rolling his eyes, pointing the finger, or yelling at a teammate, rather than taking ownership of a mistake. Not what you want to see out of one of your best players and supposed leaders. Talk about elitist mentality from a guy who can sink an 18-footer to save his life. I dunno who he thinks he is, but he definitely needs veteran leadership and a sports psychologist.

Funny to see Embiid doing so much talking the whole series. Marcus Morris put it in perspective, but just the fact that he had to even do that is embarrassing on Embiid's part. I dunno, maybe try to win a couple games in a series convincingly before you start running your mouth? Just a thought.

Philly better hope they get a veteran leader in the off-season or they will be getting swept by us next year when we are actually at full strength.

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2018, 06:27:42 PM »

Offline sawick48

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So i agree with the general sentiment, but the idea that Ben Simmons will never be a closer based on one playoff series in his age 21 season is arguably a worse take than any of the takes you mentioned from the 76er forums. I mean Lebron struggled at first in the playoffs too.

Like I said, I understand how early and naieve that seems, especially given his age and rookie status. But his body language to me was not that of a star/closer. Further, I'm talking about the impact this has on his psyche. Nothing to do w his play, as you're right, everyone's play suffers at times in the playoffs. Thought I made those points clear but if not, there you have it.

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2018, 06:38:40 PM »

Offline gouki88

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So i agree with the general sentiment, but the idea that Ben Simmons will never be a closer based on one playoff series in his age 21 season is arguably a worse take than any of the takes you mentioned from the 76er forums. I mean Lebron struggled at first in the playoffs too.
LeBron averaged roughly 31/8/6 shooting 47%. Worlds apart
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2018, 07:12:27 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I thought this was going to be LaBrd33's farewell speech.

Somehow I feel cheated, though. I can't help but think that good ol' LB would've authored a lot of posts if the series had produced a different winner.

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2018, 07:12:36 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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So i agree with the general sentiment, but the idea that Ben Simmons will never be a closer based on one playoff series in his age 21 season is arguably a worse take than any of the takes you mentioned from the 76er forums. I mean Lebron struggled at first in the playoffs too.
LeBron averaged roughly 31/8/6 shooting 47%. Worlds apart
Technically LeBron didn't even make the playoffs his first two seasons.

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2018, 07:14:16 PM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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I'm in the club of this guy isn't the next great generational talent. I think he'll be good because of his elite court vision and ability to get down hill on smaller defenders.

Yet I highly doubt he becomes great let alone generational, next in line after Lebron. You can't be great in the modern NBA without a jumper. To me that's the biggest mind blowing part how can you be so good at basketball and not have some sort of jumper? Did no one ever say hey big fella we know you can get to the rack against all the other kids whenever you want but work on your jumper?

He's young maybe he'll figure it out just seems really odd you get to this level and age without shooting. Hell half this blog can shoot jumpers and most of us couldn't walk on to our local High School intramural teams.

I don't get the hype. Think the media is in love with super tall ball handlers.
ok fine

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2018, 07:22:11 PM »

Offline gouki88

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So i agree with the general sentiment, but the idea that Ben Simmons will never be a closer based on one playoff series in his age 21 season is arguably a worse take than any of the takes you mentioned from the 76er forums. I mean Lebron struggled at first in the playoffs too.
LeBron averaged roughly 31/8/6 shooting 47%. Worlds apart
Technically LeBron didn't even make the playoffs his first two seasons.
No technicality in that, but that wasn’t what was said. And considering the team LeBron had, not a surprise he didn’t
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2018, 07:26:42 PM »

Offline sawick48

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That All Mixed Up song is by 311, not Sublime...lol, just sayin.

Simmons is not a closer in his ability and Embiid is not a closer because of his conditioning. He had one good 4th quarter of out 5 games against Boston, and that was game 4. Every 4th quarter, he was tired and slow. I don't know if a guy his size can do a whole lot to change this. Seems like he is who he is, which is still a very dominant, top 3 center in the league.

I agree with Simmons. Such a brat on the court. The wide open dunk he blew it on (game 2?) was basically what defined his immaturity in one play. He wanted so badly to make an impressive highlight slam to demoralize the Celtics, rather than get the needed gimmie 2 points. Every turnover or time he got scored on which led to a Philly timeout, you could see him rolling his eyes, pointing the finger, or yelling at a teammate, rather than taking ownership of a mistake. Not what you want to see out of one of your best players and supposed leaders. Talk about elitist mentality from a guy who can sink an 18-footer to save his life. I dunno who he thinks he is, but he definitely needs veteran leadership and a sports psychologist.

Funny to see Embiid doing so much talking the whole series. Marcus Morris put it in perspective, but just the fact that he had to even do that is embarrassing on Embiid's part. I dunno, maybe try to win a couple games in a series convincingly before you start running your mouth? Just a thought.

Philly better hope they get a veteran leader in the off-season or they will be getting swept by us next year when we are actually at full strength.

Ugh. [dang] it. You're totally right on the song. That's my fault and I should be shunned. Ashamed of myself.

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2018, 07:36:18 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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So i agree with the general sentiment, but the idea that Ben Simmons will never be a closer based on one playoff series in his age 21 season is arguably a worse take than any of the takes you mentioned from the 76er forums. I mean Lebron struggled at first in the playoffs too.

Yep, up until his second season in Mia IIRC. It's far too early to make end judgments on any of the guys from the draft 3 seasons ago, much less from this one. People always give Celts years b4 they say they are a finished products (Smart is still 24, he has time to fix his poor shooting percentages, as an example). Threads like these are the usual bias of fans, which we all get into at times.
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2018, 09:09:24 PM »

Offline cons

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so basically they tanked for several years for 2 good players and a second round 4-1 exit.

 tanking is the easy part, anyone can lose. turning that actually into something is the real challenge and so far not much true results.

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2018, 09:11:10 PM »

Offline gouki88

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So i agree with the general sentiment, but the idea that Ben Simmons will never be a closer based on one playoff series in his age 21 season is arguably a worse take than any of the takes you mentioned from the 76er forums. I mean Lebron struggled at first in the playoffs too.

Yep, up until his second season in Mia IIRC. It's far too early to make end judgments on any of the guys from the draft 3 seasons ago, much less from this one. People always give Celts years b4 they say they are a finished products (Smart is still 24, he has time to fix his poor shooting percentages, as an example). Threads like these are the usual bias of fans, which we all get into at times.
Are you saying LeBron struggled in the playoffs until his 2nd year in Miami??
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Let's Put the Process in Proper Perspective for Philly
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2018, 10:25:27 AM »

Offline timpiker

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Philly was the #3 seed and its really amazing that they came so far from what they were just a year ago - a great turnaround.  With that being said, if everything generally stays the same for the foreseeable future of the C's and Philly - I'm not at all worried about Philly.  Of course, what happens to LeBUM in the off-season might change my opinion.