Author Topic: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron  (Read 2302 times)

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Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2018, 05:12:07 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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So basically what you're saying is you don't like him because he's good.  I mean, that happens to pretty much all great players.

Yeah, that's a totally nuanced reading of what I said.


But seriously, I loved Tim Duncan, who was also great.  The Warriors are great, and win everything, but I like them too.  I guess they just don't seem to break all the rules of what seems like it should matter when it comes to what constitutes "good basketball." 

Anyway, I didn't intend this post as a criticism of LeBron or his game.  Just a reflection on the fan experience, I guess.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 05:19:38 PM by PhoSita »
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Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2018, 05:17:53 PM »

Offline Erik

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My problems with him are simple:
  • he isn't a leader
Instead of building something in Cleveland, he ran off to Wade. Then he came back to Cleveland after Wade and Bosh were finished and joined a set squad. Now he's going to leave and join another set squad. He's a follower.
  • he's a toxic teammate
It doesn't take much listening to him to know that he's just an obnoxious person. How many times has there been drama on a LeBron James team? It seems like EVERY YEAR. He's the only common denominator. Exit interviews confirm this. Michael and Kobe were toxic as well... because they were ruthless competitors and demanded nothing less than excellence. LeBron is a pretend ruthless competitor. He's just toxic because he's mentally a teenager. He just enjoys drama.
  • he complains way too much
Seriously... has this guy never actually fouled anyone? Has he never turned the ball over and it's just his fault? Has he never had a good enough team? Every game he gets 1 or 2 fouls and he has the most confused look on his face. Bro, it's basketball. People move fast. Sometimes you go for the ball and they change directions. It happens all the time. Yeah, we get it... Isaiah Thomas sucks in an ISO offense when he isn't the ISO guy. It doesn't mean that you just don't cross half court and sit there and watch while pouting that someone else has the ball.
  • he's thin skinned
How many times has an NBA analyst criticized him over basketball related things and he responds with something stupid like "you're just a hater" "my life is better than yours." Stephen A Smith has a disclaimer now every time he has to critique LeBron. It says something like "Breaking News: LeBron is a great father, great husband, great person, etc." because the guy goes mental if he's ever criticized.
  • he's unreliable
He's supposed to be the best basketball player. Yet, how confident are you that he will win this year? Or any year? Not that much. Doesn't it always seem to be the case that he somehow stumbles into the Finals? Do you think that Michael would have allowed a round 1 Game 7 against these Pacers to be decided by a couple points? With Michael, there was always a constant: he was going to win. I never had a doubt in my mind in any year during the 90s.
  • he's not a Celtic
Sorry, should have started with this. I cannot like any NBA player that isn't on the Celtics.
[/list]

Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2018, 05:28:32 PM »

Offline TheisTheisBaby

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Lebron James the guy is someone respectable.  We don't know of any real controversies, no criminal behavior, he's a great dad, a philanthropist, and a genuinely good guy.

"King" James is a **** who has been anointed and coddled his whole career because the NBA was desperately searching for their next MJ.  There isn't a sane basketball fan that can look at him as a player and say he hasn't benefited more from the refs than any other player in NBA history.  He's 6'8 275 yet he's the single softest superstar the NBA has ever seen physically and mentally.  He's a product of the modern NBA where you can't touch him or it's a foul yet he can get away with anything he wants on defense (And as we saw it cost the Pacers a first round victory over the Cavs).  He's a frontrunner in that if the game is tied (with no way to lose on a miss) or they're up by 5 he has no issues taking a "big" shot.  If there's a chance to lose by missing he tucks til and runs from the moment.  And speaking of tucking tail and running, he left a 60+ win team because he couldn't beat an aging, veteran Celtics team to go join Wade and Bosh in their primes.  Bird never called MJ and Barkley to help him beat Magic.  Magic never called them to beat Bird.  If he's gonna be viewed on the same level as the all-time greats then being a quitter and a coward automatically disqualifies him from that discussion.  The flopping, the whining, the faking injuries, the leaving playoff games because of cramps when other greats played through MUCH WORSE injuries than that.  I could keep going but I'd like to get to sleep at some point.

Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2018, 05:31:19 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Following NBA basketball with Lebron James is like following NASCAR when there's one particular car that's faster, accelerates better, and somehow never breaks down year after year after year. That would get boring too.

One thing that younger people might not realize is that Lebron wasn't always quite like this. Coming into the league he was a great talent and extremely physically gifted, but not like this. He has changed over time. The dude is now 33, just led the entire league in minutes played (and basically doesn't come off the floor in the playoffs), and mysteriously is the most athletic player on every court he graces, even while playing among the best conditioned athletes on the planet.

Most of why I don't enjoy watching him play is the same reason why sports has lost some of its luster as I've gotten older. There is so much money at stake now that nothing hasn't been dirtied. Every major media outlet has a stake in the Lebron empire, they are all at the teat. Similarly, there is no monetary incentive whatsoever for the league office to improve drug testing, given that its superstars are performing at near superhuman levels. To get serious would end the spectacle.

It's not just basketball, of course. Al Jazeera, which has nothing to do with sports (and is thus insulated from the corrupting influence of sports revenues in its journalism) discovered HGH being mailed to Peyton Manning's house under his wife's name. Manning had just set the single season touchdown record at age 37, a year after having two vertebrae in his neck fused together and people wondering if he'd ever play again. The dominant story in the news media? That Al Jazeera lacks credibility, that this was a smear job and an invasion of privacy, and that Manning is telling the truth. Nothing to see here.

Do I know for sure that something's amiss with Lebron, or for that matter Westbrook, or Giannis, or countless other guys? No. I also don't know for sure that there's something fishy about NBA officiating. All I know is that a crooked ref some years ago, who was eventually put in prison for betting on and rigging games, suspiciously made hundreds of phone calls at curious times to another referee, and that this other referee is universally derided by players for how bad he is, and yet this other referee somehow ends up officiating key games in the playoffs when lots of revenue is riding on whether or not the series can be extended.

Maybe I'm being unfair to Lebron in particular, but in some ways I feel he is emblematic of how our culture has changed. He is the antithesis of Bill Russell in almost every sense, a perennial winner and fierce competitor who was dwarfed in stature by Wilt, yet remained keenly focused on team basketball and won a championship in [dang] near every season he played. All of the principles embodied by Russell's career are absent with Lebron, who barely pays lip service to the concept of the team, who scorches the earth everywhere he goes before moving on somewhere else, and talks endlessly about his personal legacy.

Ok, I'm done.

Definitely some valid food for thought here....

Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2018, 05:34:48 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Lebron James the guy is someone respectable.  We don't know of any real controversies, no criminal behavior, he's a great dad, a philanthropist, and a genuinely good guy.

"King" James is a **** who has been anointed and coddled his whole career because the NBA was desperately searching for their next MJ.  There isn't a sane basketball fan that can look at him as a player and say he hasn't benefited more from the refs than any other player in NBA history.  He's 6'8 275 yet he's the single softest superstar the NBA has ever seen physically and mentally.  He's a product of the modern NBA where you can't touch him or it's a foul yet he can get away with anything he wants on defense (And as we saw it cost the Pacers a first round victory over the Cavs).  He's a frontrunner in that if the game is tied (with no way to lose on a miss) or they're up by 5 he has no issues taking a "big" shot.  If there's a chance to lose by missing he tucks til and runs from the moment.  And speaking of tucking tail and running, he left a 60+ win team because he couldn't beat an aging, veteran Celtics team to go join Wade and Bosh in their primes.  Bird never called MJ and Barkley to help him beat Magic.  Magic never called them to beat Bird.  If he's gonna be viewed on the same level as the all-time greats then being a quitter and a coward automatically disqualifies him from that discussion.  The flopping, the whining, the faking injuries, the leaving playoff games because of cramps when other greats played through MUCH WORSE injuries than that.  I could keep going but I'd like to get to sleep at some point.
Lol, agree. King James is absolutely insufferable

Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2018, 06:12:57 PM »

Offline Green-18

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2.  His blatant fear against the Mavericks during his first NBA Finals in Miami.  LeBron went beyond being "unselfish" when he deferred to teammates throughout this series.  He was clearly afraid of the moment as a heavy favorite.


I actually like that LeBron struggled against the Mavericks -- a team I deeply enjoyed watching -- and then used that experience to motivate him to improve his game.

Seeing LeBron struggle and falter makes it easier to appreciate when he succeeds.

That's part of my problem with him, as well.  He has had challenges in the Finals but I really dislike how he seems to cakewalk to the Finals year after year.  Part of that is his greatness and part of it is the fact that most years there are 0-1 teams in the East capable of defeating him.

If LeBron had to face some more adversity -- apart from the roster construction issues on the Cavs which are largely self-inflicted -- I think I'd enjoy it more when he won.

All valid points.  However, the Dallas and San Antonio losses leave a permanent stain on his record if we are discussing the GOAT.  The constant comparison to Jordan makes it harder to enjoy the ride.  It might be unfair but has LeBron had a signature late game Finals moment other than the big block against Golden State?  At the end of the day Ray Allen and Kyrie hit the biggest shots in the tightest circumstances.  I judge LeBron harshly because he engineered the construction of every Finals team after the loss to the Celtics in 2010.   

Is LeBron the 2nd greatest of all time.  Yes.  Despite this I would still choose to build my team around a handful of players before him.  I can't stand the vice grip that he has over his teams. 

Give me Bird or Magic any day.  At their best they are in the same tier and I know the pieces will fit together.

Your argument about not having a signature Finals moment, other than the block, is a bit unfair. My Finals moment for Michael Jordan is probably his push off against Russell when they faced Utah. Other than that, all of the other big shots to end games in the Finals came for the point guards.

It's absolutely unfair in any context with the exception of the Jordan comparison.  LeBron has referenced his desire to catch Jordan multiple times.  Every detail counts in the GOAT debate.  That being said, I can't dispute LeBron's clutch ability in any other context.  His longevity is also superhuman.

As for Jordan, you are missing some big time late game moments from his NBA Finals career. 

Game 3 of the 1991 Finals - Jordan hits the game tying shot to force OT.  Bulls took a 2-1 lead in the series
Game 1 of the 1997 Finals - Jordan hits a buzzer beater over Russell to win the game
Game 5 of the 1997 Finals - Jordan hits a go ahead 3 with 25 seconds left in the legendary "flu game"
Game 6 of the 1997 Finals - Jordan passes out of a double team to hit a wide open Kerr near the free throw line.  He set up an extremely high percentage shot for Kerr.  I would give LeBron the same credit if he made the play.  It was a championship winning assist.
Game 1 of the 1998 Finals - Jordan assists on the game tying pass to Luc Longley.  It was an awesome play in traffic by Jordan.
Game 6 of the 1998 Finals - You already referenced this moment.  Don't forget that Jordan also came up with a big steal to set up the final shot over Russell.

Jordan literally scored or assisted on 5 NBA Finals winning/tying plays in the two series against Utah.  Then there's his 6-0 Finals record without going to a game 7 in any playoff series during that stretch.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 06:18:47 PM by Green-18 »

Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2018, 08:08:31 PM »

Offline moiso

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Iím on board with James the basketball player being insufferable.  Agree with the whining and legacy talk and all of that.  But the thing that bugs me the most is how super concious he is of how every single thing he says or does will look on the cameras.  Every time he looks at a replay on the monitor itís calulated.  Every time he was fouled and he keeps touching his face and then acting like heís looking for blood itís calculated.  Every time he celebrates on the bench itís calculated.  When he hit the game winner the other night and stood posing on the scorers table like a moron it was calculated.  Everything he says in a press conference is Lebron trying to fake being more humble than he really is.

Given that I really dislike Lebron the basketball person, I really like to watch him play against teams that I like.  Heís a great villain.  I get a lot more excited to watch the Celtics play Cleveland than just about any other team in the league simply because I want them to beat Lebron.  Itís not even really about the Cavs as a whole.  I just want Lebron to lose.

Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2018, 10:02:31 PM »

Offline Moranis

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2.  His blatant fear against the Mavericks during his first NBA Finals in Miami.  LeBron went beyond being "unselfish" when he deferred to teammates throughout this series.  He was clearly afraid of the moment as a heavy favorite.


I actually like that LeBron struggled against the Mavericks -- a team I deeply enjoyed watching -- and then used that experience to motivate him to improve his game.

Seeing LeBron struggle and falter makes it easier to appreciate when he succeeds.

That's part of my problem with him, as well.  He has had challenges in the Finals but I really dislike how he seems to cakewalk to the Finals year after year.  Part of that is his greatness and part of it is the fact that most years there are 0-1 teams in the East capable of defeating him.

If LeBron had to face some more adversity -- apart from the roster construction issues on the Cavs which are largely self-inflicted -- I think I'd enjoy it more when he won.

All valid points.  However, the Dallas and San Antonio losses leave a permanent stain on his record if we are discussing the GOAT.  The constant comparison to Jordan makes it harder to enjoy the ride.  It might be unfair but has LeBron had a signature late game Finals moment other than the big block against Golden State?  At the end of the day Ray Allen and Kyrie hit the biggest shots in the tightest circumstances.  I judge LeBron harshly because he engineered the construction of every Finals team after the loss to the Celtics in 2010.   

Is LeBron the 2nd greatest of all time.  Yes.  Despite this I would still choose to build my team around a handful of players before him.  I can't stand the vice grip that he has over his teams. 

Give me Bird or Magic any day.  At their best they are in the same tier and I know the pieces will fit together.

Your argument about not having a signature Finals moment, other than the block, is a bit unfair. My Finals moment for Michael Jordan is probably his push off against Russell when they faced Utah. Other than that, all of the other big shots to end games in the Finals came for the point guards.

It's absolutely unfair in any context with the exception of the Jordan comparison.  LeBron has referenced his desire to catch Jordan multiple times.  Every detail counts in the GOAT debate.  That being said, I can't dispute LeBron's clutch ability in any other context.  His longevity is also superhuman.

As for Jordan, you are missing some big time late game moments from his NBA Finals career. 

Game 3 of the 1991 Finals - Jordan hits the game tying shot to force OT.  Bulls took a 2-1 lead in the series
Game 1 of the 1997 Finals - Jordan hits a buzzer beater over Russell to win the game
Game 5 of the 1997 Finals - Jordan hits a go ahead 3 with 25 seconds left in the legendary "flu game"
Game 6 of the 1997 Finals - Jordan passes out of a double team to hit a wide open Kerr near the free throw line.  He set up an extremely high percentage shot for Kerr.  I would give LeBron the same credit if he made the play.  It was a championship winning assist.
Game 1 of the 1998 Finals - Jordan assists on the game tying pass to Luc Longley.  It was an awesome play in traffic by Jordan.
Game 6 of the 1998 Finals - You already referenced this moment.  Don't forget that Jordan also came up with a big steal to set up the final shot over Russell.

Jordan literally scored or assisted on 5 NBA Finals winning/tying plays in the two series against Utah.  Then there's his 6-0 Finals record without going to a game 7 in any playoff series during that stretch.
Bulls had two series go 7 games in those seasons.  Jordan was 6 of 15 in going to Finals.  It is quite silly to ignore the 9 seasons he ended as a loser and didn't even make the Finals.


Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2018, 10:07:13 PM »

Offline vl819

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I struggle to appreciate lebron game is because I think he has been on a steady supply of hgh since early in his career. And the nba knows this but turns a blind eye due to his star ammasing revenue

Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2018, 12:51:17 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Following NBA basketball with Lebron James is like following NASCAR when there's one particular car that's faster, accelerates better, and somehow never breaks down year after year after year. That would get boring too.

One thing that younger people might not realize is that Lebron wasn't always quite like this. Coming into the league he was a great talent and extremely physically gifted, but not like this. He has changed over time. The dude is now 33, just led the entire league in minutes played (and basically doesn't come off the floor in the playoffs), and mysteriously is the most athletic player on every court he graces, even while playing among the best conditioned athletes on the planet.

Most of why I don't enjoy watching him play is the same reason why sports has lost some of its luster as I've gotten older. There is so much money at stake now that nothing hasn't been dirtied. Every major media outlet has a stake in the Lebron empire, they are all at the teat. Similarly, there is no monetary incentive whatsoever for the league office to improve drug testing, given that its superstars are performing at near superhuman levels. To get serious would end the spectacle.

It's not just basketball, of course. Al Jazeera, which has nothing to do with sports (and is thus insulated from the corrupting influence of sports revenues in its journalism) discovered HGH being mailed to Peyton Manning's house under his wife's name. Manning had just set the single season touchdown record at age 37, a year after having two vertebrae in his neck fused together and people wondering if he'd ever play again. The dominant story in the news media? That Al Jazeera lacks credibility, that this was a smear job and an invasion of privacy, and that Manning is telling the truth. Nothing to see here.

Do I know for sure that something's amiss with Lebron, or for that matter Westbrook, or Giannis, or countless other guys? No. I also don't know for sure that there's something fishy about NBA officiating. All I know is that a crooked ref some years ago, who was eventually put in prison for betting on and rigging games, suspiciously made hundreds of phone calls at curious times to another referee, and that this other referee is universally derided by players for how bad he is, and yet this other referee somehow ends up officiating key games in the playoffs when lots of revenue is riding on whether or not the series can be extended.

Maybe I'm being unfair to Lebron in particular, but in some ways I feel he is emblematic of how our culture has changed. He is the antithesis of Bill Russell in almost every sense, a perennial winner and fierce competitor who was dwarfed in stature by Wilt, yet remained keenly focused on team basketball and won a championship in [dang] near every season he played. All of the principles embodied by Russell's career are absent with Lebron, who barely pays lip service to the concept of the team, who scorches the earth everywhere he goes before moving on somewhere else, and talks endlessly about his personal legacy.

Ok, I'm done.

A lot of good points in your post, and in other posts in this threadóthe Decision, for example, and the mysterious nature of how he's never suffered a significant injury, and seems to be getting better at an age when players are usually declining (oddly reminiscent of Barry Bonds).

But there's something else that annoys me, that I haven't seen mentioned here, and that relates to Russell: Several years back, LeBron switched from wearing No. 23, out of respect to Michael Jordan ... but he switched to No. 6, which was worn by Russell. To me, that displayed an AMAZING amount of ignorance and disrespect.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

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Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2018, 01:25:25 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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2.  His blatant fear against the Mavericks during his first NBA Finals in Miami.  LeBron went beyond being "unselfish" when he deferred to teammates throughout this series.  He was clearly afraid of the moment as a heavy favorite.


I actually like that LeBron struggled against the Mavericks -- a team I deeply enjoyed watching -- and then used that experience to motivate him to improve his game.

Seeing LeBron struggle and falter makes it easier to appreciate when he succeeds.

That's part of my problem with him, as well.  He has had challenges in the Finals but I really dislike how he seems to cakewalk to the Finals year after year.  Part of that is his greatness and part of it is the fact that most years there are 0-1 teams in the East capable of defeating him.

If LeBron had to face some more adversity -- apart from the roster construction issues on the Cavs which are largely self-inflicted -- I think I'd enjoy it more when he won.

All valid points.  However, the Dallas and San Antonio losses leave a permanent stain on his record if we are discussing the GOAT.  The constant comparison to Jordan makes it harder to enjoy the ride.  It might be unfair but has LeBron had a signature late game Finals moment other than the big block against Golden State?  At the end of the day Ray Allen and Kyrie hit the biggest shots in the tightest circumstances.  I judge LeBron harshly because he engineered the construction of every Finals team after the loss to the Celtics in 2010.   

Is LeBron the 2nd greatest of all time.  Yes.  Despite this I would still choose to build my team around a handful of players before him.  I can't stand the vice grip that he has over his teams. 

Give me Bird or Magic any day.  At their best they are in the same tier and I know the pieces will fit together.

Your argument about not having a signature Finals moment, other than the block, is a bit unfair. My Finals moment for Michael Jordan is probably his push off against Russell when they faced Utah. Other than that, all of the other big shots to end games in the Finals came for the point guards.

It's absolutely unfair in any context with the exception of the Jordan comparison.  LeBron has referenced his desire to catch Jordan multiple times.  Every detail counts in the GOAT debate.  That being said, I can't dispute LeBron's clutch ability in any other context.  His longevity is also superhuman.

As for Jordan, you are missing some big time late game moments from his NBA Finals career. 

Game 3 of the 1991 Finals - Jordan hits the game tying shot to force OT.  Bulls took a 2-1 lead in the series
Game 1 of the 1997 Finals - Jordan hits a buzzer beater over Russell to win the game
Game 5 of the 1997 Finals - Jordan hits a go ahead 3 with 25 seconds left in the legendary "flu game"
Game 6 of the 1997 Finals - Jordan passes out of a double team to hit a wide open Kerr near the free throw line.  He set up an extremely high percentage shot for Kerr.  I would give LeBron the same credit if he made the play.  It was a championship winning assist.
Game 1 of the 1998 Finals - Jordan assists on the game tying pass to Luc Longley.  It was an awesome play in traffic by Jordan.
Game 6 of the 1998 Finals - You already referenced this moment.  Don't forget that Jordan also came up with a big steal to set up the final shot over Russell.

Jordan literally scored or assisted on 5 NBA Finals winning/tying plays in the two series against Utah.  Then there's his 6-0 Finals record without going to a game 7 in any playoff series during that stretch.
Bulls had two series go 7 games in those seasons.  Jordan was 6 of 15 in going to Finals.  It is quite silly to ignore the 9 seasons he ended as a loser and didn't even make the Finals.

Jordan was incredible will never be another one like him. Lebron can catch kobe in rings still though! Tht would be something cause kobe had some great teammates

Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2018, 01:27:05 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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I struggle to appreciate lebron game is because I think he has been on a steady supply of hgh since early in his career. And the nba knows this but turns a blind eye due to his star ammasing revenue

I am surprised how often I see this. I guess More people think this than I thought. The main thing that ever raised my eye brow was the growth on his jaw. That was... weird

Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2018, 01:50:06 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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why though?  The Raptors were swept by the Cavs last year and beaten fairly easily the year before by Cleveland as well.  The Raptors just aren't built to beat the Cavs.  They just don't match up well with them and they have no one that can even bother James defensively.  Basketball is a game of match-ups and certain teams are just poor match-ups for other teams.  The Pacers and the Celtics match-up much better against the Cavs then the Raptors do (the Sixers do as well, but let's hope we don't get to see that series).  James dominance over the East is an Eastern Conference match-up problem and just generally a result of the overall lack of transcendent players in the East.  That doesn't exist in the West and the Finals results reflect that fact.


Well, this is going exactly to what I'm saying.  You're suggesting that this is as simple as "LeBron is a matchup problem for the Raptors," which is another way of saying "The Raptors don't have LeBron and the Cavs do."

I guess I thought that maybe team construction and experience and coaching and all of those things might matter.  Clearly that was silly.

Which makes me wonder. Would you rather have Smart and Rozier or Lowry and Derozan? Lowry and Derozan are great for today's NBA, both can create with the ball, and are on paper high value players.

On the other hand, Smart is the opposite of an advanced stats darling, while Rozier is a bit of a tweener. That said, in the fourth quarter, or on the brink of elimination, they would make huge plays. In contrast, you have the Raptors, who have on numerous occasions choked - and choked especially hard this year.

I guess the obvious answer would be Smart and Rozier on reasonable contracts are far better value than Derozan and Lowry...but I guess this also brings up the fact that Derozan and Lowry probably aren't worth near-max contracts...whereas someone like Jimmy Butler, who is the absolute opposite of mentally weak, and has completely lifted the Wolves this year on all facets, despite if I recall correctly a down year on paper... is absolutely worth one...

Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2018, 01:56:53 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I struggle to appreciate lebron game is because I think he has been on a steady supply of hgh since early in his career. And the nba knows this but turns a blind eye due to his star ammasing revenue

I am surprised how often I see this. I guess More people think this than I thought. The main thing that ever raised my eye brow was the growth on his jaw. That was... weird
Weird is putting it lightly.

Re: A Theory on Why I Struggle To Enjoy Watching LeBron
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2018, 02:04:33 AM »

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Following NBA basketball with Lebron James is like following NASCAR when there's one particular car that's faster, accelerates better, and somehow never breaks down year after year after year. That would get boring too.

One thing that younger people might not realize is that Lebron wasn't always quite like this. Coming into the league he was a great talent and extremely physically gifted, but not like this. He has changed over time. The dude is now 33, just led the entire league in minutes played (and basically doesn't come off the floor in the playoffs), and mysteriously is the most athletic player on every court he graces, even while playing among the best conditioned athletes on the planet.

Most of why I don't enjoy watching him play is the same reason why sports has lost some of its luster as I've gotten older. There is so much money at stake now that nothing hasn't been dirtied. Every major media outlet has a stake in the Lebron empire, they are all at the teat. Similarly, there is no monetary incentive whatsoever for the league office to improve drug testing, given that its superstars are performing at near superhuman levels. To get serious would end the spectacle.

It's not just basketball, of course. Al Jazeera, which has nothing to do with sports (and is thus insulated from the corrupting influence of sports revenues in its journalism) discovered HGH being mailed to Peyton Manning's house under his wife's name. Manning had just set the single season touchdown record at age 37, a year after having two vertebrae in his neck fused together and people wondering if he'd ever play again. The dominant story in the news media? That Al Jazeera lacks credibility, that this was a smear job and an invasion of privacy, and that Manning is telling the truth. Nothing to see here.

Do I know for sure that something's amiss with Lebron, or for that matter Westbrook, or Giannis, or countless other guys? No. I also don't know for sure that there's something fishy about NBA officiating. All I know is that a crooked ref some years ago, who was eventually put in prison for betting on and rigging games, suspiciously made hundreds of phone calls at curious times to another referee, and that this other referee is universally derided by players for how bad he is, and yet this other referee somehow ends up officiating key games in the playoffs when lots of revenue is riding on whether or not the series can be extended.

Maybe I'm being unfair to Lebron in particular, but in some ways I feel he is emblematic of how our culture has changed. He is the antithesis of Bill Russell in almost every sense, a perennial winner and fierce competitor who was dwarfed in stature by Wilt, yet remained keenly focused on team basketball and won a championship in [dang] near every season he played. All of the principles embodied by Russell's career are absent with Lebron, who barely pays lip service to the concept of the team, who scorches the earth everywhere he goes before moving on somewhere else, and talks endlessly about his personal legacy.

Ok, I'm done.

Definitely some valid food for thought here....
As a person brought up in a Chinese society I can definitely see how the NBA "rigs" it, it's definitely plausible to me. The refs thing is never going to be fixed though because you're risking p---ing off the entire gambling industry and its "affiliates", if you know what I mean.
****cago Bull****