Author Topic: If it were Stevens (not D. Rivers), the KG/PP era would have had more titles!  (Read 1783 times)

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Offline mr. dee

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Doc's rotation from 2010 onwards were atrocious. He basically ran his starters to the ground, giving them no rest. If it wasn't for Ray having a bone spur, AB wouldn't see minutes in the rotation. Brad would ask KG to expand his range and we might even see players like Jajuan Johnson and E'Twaun Moore actually contribute to the team.

The way he misused Jason Terry and Darko was really disappointing.

Offline eja117

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No..

KG and PP would not have had the same respect for The child coach coming from Butler who had no prior Success in the NBA... Brad came in trying to figure it out.. That would not have gone over well with those Hall of Famers...

The Situation CBS came into was perfect... I think it would have been a totally different situation for him if he had inherited those old heads..

Now that I think of it, I don't think CBS would have found coaching those guys alluring enough to leave Butler...

TP. Took the words right out of my mouth. I agree that Brad is a better coach than Doc, but Doc was the perfect coach for the Big 3 era. As others have said, coaching was not the issue in the Big 3 era. Injuries were. Doc had a reputation for being a player's coach, which helped the players respect him in the locker room. I don't think Brad could have done the same.

Dare I say that because of CBS, Doc Rivers' coaching has gotten a little underrated around here?
Look at how much better Brad has handled injuries than Doc

Offline MJohnnyboy

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No..

KG and PP would not have had the same respect for The child coach coming from Butler who had no prior Success in the NBA... Brad came in trying to figure it out.. That would not have gone over well with those Hall of Famers...

The Situation CBS came into was perfect... I think it would have been a totally different situation for him if he had inherited those old heads..

Now that I think of it, I don't think CBS would have found coaching those guys alluring enough to leave Butler...

TP. Took the words right out of my mouth. I agree that Brad is a better coach than Doc, but Doc was the perfect coach for the Big 3 era. As others have said, coaching was not the issue in the Big 3 era. Injuries were. Doc had a reputation for being a player's coach, which helped the players respect him in the locker room. I don't think Brad could have done the same.

Dare I say that because of CBS, Doc Rivers' coaching has gotten a little underrated around here?
Look at how much better Brad has handled injuries than Doc

Elaborate if you could.

Also, I said that Brad is better than Doc.

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I'll NEVER forget that limp, after he landed awkwardly during that game in Utah in 2008-09 season.

THAT costed us more titles.

I'll never get the Doc Rivers hate on here. And folks JUST started warming up to Rajon Rondo after his unwarranted roasting of IT4.
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Offline j804

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I'll NEVER forget that limp, after he landed awkwardly during that game in Utah in 2008-09 season.

THAT costed us more titles.

I'll never get the Doc Rivers hate on here. And folks JUST started warming up to Rajon Rondo after his unwarranted roasting of IT4.
That was a weird year never got the bottom of it either didnít they never rule him out? Hiding the injury?
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Offline TitleMaster

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X's and O's had nothing to do with why those teams didn't win another title. Age and injuries held that group back.

Actually, it was that very issue that happened to be the biggest reason as to why they lost in 2010 and beyond, imo. Even during the semifinals against the Cavs in 2008 the "coaching" was atrocious, in my view. I mean, how can anyone not find a way in which to exploit the defensive stalwart that was Wally Szczerbiak? ::) Ugh.

Doc's rotation from 2010 onwards were atrocious. He basically ran his starters to the ground, giving them no rest. If it wasn't for Ray having a bone spur, AB wouldn't see minutes in the rotation. Brad would ask KG to expand his range and we might even see players like Jajuan Johnson and E'Twaun Moore actually contribute to the team.

The way he misused Jason Terry and Darko was really disappointing.

All of the above and he also ran his starters into the ground during the time before 2010, as he never trusted anyone else to hold the lead when they were actually winning games.

Doc got away with it because PP/KG were still below ~33 years old, when it's easier to recover from strenuous games. The regular season games were frustrating to watch, whenever PP/KG would sit down. And Doc clearly had no plans for that day, when the big three would all be 33 & above.

In addition, that legendary 2006 squad had Pierce play for only ~47 games. In other words, it was a franchise player injury year where they were waiting for the lottery than in chasing for a playoff spot. Going from that 24 win flop to a greater than 55+ win season with a stacked roster is something that even a moron like Stan Van Gundy could pull off.

And speaking of Pierce, does Stevens have anyone on his current roster, at Paul Pierce's 30 year old ability? And I'm not talking about having PP/KG together but PP alone?






Offline Big333223

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Can Bad Stevens win a championship in reality before we start retroactively assigning him championships for teams he never coached?
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Offline BitterJim

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Doc's rotation from 2010 onwards were atrocious. He basically ran his starters to the ground, giving them no rest. If it wasn't for Ray having a bone spur, AB wouldn't see minutes in the rotation. Brad would ask KG to expand his range and we might even see players like Jajuan Johnson and E'Twaun Moore actually contribute to the team.

The way he misused Jason Terry and Darko was really disappointing.

Is there a proper way to use Darko?

(Besides just keeping him on the bench/off the team)
I'm bitter.

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Doc's rotation from 2010 onwards were atrocious. He basically ran his starters to the ground, giving them no rest. If it wasn't for Ray having a bone spur, AB wouldn't see minutes in the rotation. Brad would ask KG to expand his range and we might even see players like Jajuan Johnson and E'Twaun Moore actually contribute to the team.

The way he misused Jason Terry and Darko was really disappointing.

Is there a proper way to use Darko?

(Besides just keeping him on the bench/off the team)

Darko was going to be good for us that year, throughout his career his defense was underrated. He had a very good pre-season for us. We really needed what he was bringing.

Then whatever happened happened.

His TO are a concerned though.

Offline triboy16f

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true story

Offline Donoghus

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Bad luck with injuries and the rise of Lebron James is what kept the Celtics from winning more titles during that era.  Not coaching.


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Offline Diggles

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We will never know.....    Lots of what ifs..... 

Give me a healthy KG over Brad Stevens in 2010.   

Offline Roy H.

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What championship would we have won besides 2008, whether the coach be Doc, Stevens, Pop, Jackson, or Red himself?

KG's injury and Perk's injury sunk our chances.  I think Stevens might have been able to get more out of guys like Marquis Daniels for awhile, but he's no better than Doc at avoiding player injury, so what would it matter?

I think if we made the replacement, we end up with one or zero titles.


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Offline celts10

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KG and PP would not have had the same respect for The child coach coming from Butler who had no prior Success in the NBA

Exactly. We could have replaced Doc Rivers but it would have had to be with an established pro-level coach who could immediately gain the respect of the veterans. Someone like a Flip Saunders, for instance.

Offline OldSchoolDude

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X's and O's had nothing to do with why those teams didn't win another title. Age and injuries held that group back.

Actually, it was that very issue that happened to be the biggest reason as to why they lost in 2010 and beyond, imo. Even during the semifinals against the Cavs in 2008 the "coaching" was atrocious, in my view. I mean, how can anyone not find a way in which to exploit the defensive stalwart that was Wally Szczerbiak? ::) Ugh.

Doc's rotation from 2010 onwards were atrocious. He basically ran his starters to the ground, giving them no rest. If it wasn't for Ray having a bone spur, AB wouldn't see minutes in the rotation. Brad would ask KG to expand his range and we might even see players like Jajuan Johnson and E'Twaun Moore actually contribute to the team.

The way he misused Jason Terry and Darko was really disappointing.

All of the above and he also ran his starters into the ground during the time before 2010, as he never trusted anyone else to hold the lead when they were actually winning games.

Doc got away with it because PP/KG were still below ~33 years old, when it's easier to recover from strenuous games. The regular season games were frustrating to watch, whenever PP/KG would sit down. And Doc clearly had no plans for that day, when the big three would all be 33 & above.

In addition, that legendary 2006 squad had Pierce play for only ~47 games. In other words, it was a franchise player injury year where they were waiting for the lottery than in chasing for a playoff spot. Going from that 24 win flop to a greater than 55+ win season with a stacked roster is something that even a moron like Stan Van Gundy could pull off.

And speaking of Pierce, does Stevens have anyone on his current roster, at Paul Pierce's 30 year old ability? And I'm not talking about having PP/KG together but PP alone?

Doc had to lean so hard on the starters because they had so much money tied up in the starters they couldnít afford a quality bench and they messed up in the draft so they didnít have good players on rookie deals.  In that last game 7 loss to Miami we only got 3 points from the bench.   Bradley had gone down with a shoulder injury and Allen went back to the starting lineup.  We had no scoring on the bench and no size to back up KG.  When we won the title we got points off the bench and our backups could hold their own defensively.   The inability to field a deep team forced Danny into more cap friendly deals and he was eventually able to put us in a position to be able to pay Horford, Hayward and Irving, while drafting quality backups on teem friendly rookie deals.
So they win in 2008 but then the draft misses begin.  Maybe Stevens would have helped make better choices.  Danny said that he listens to the scouts and the coach before he make his choice.
2008 they picked JR Giddens # 30 but should have picked DeAndre Jordan who went #35 or even Nikola Pekovic who went #30
2009 no 1st and they donít pick until 58h in round 2, really nothing you can do there. 
2010 Danny picked Avery Bradley at # 19 which was a solid pick, his outstanding defense and improving shot pushed Ray Allen to the bench his second year.  There wasnít anyone good [picked after their second round pick so that was a good draft.  The only player that might have been a better pick than Bradley was Lance Stephenson who went # 40, but heís been great and not so good so far.  The Stephenson on the first pass through Indian would have been better than Bradley.
2011 Given our draft slot and team needs I was acutely hopping for JaJuan Johnson wow what did I know.   We took Marshon Brooks # 26 then worked a trade to get JJJ at 27.  The clear miss in that draft was Jimmy Butler who went # 30.  Also instead of taking E'twaun Moore at 55 we could have gotten IT at 60.
2012 This was a draft that I thought was really going to help us win now and set us up for the future.  Before draft night like many others I was hoping for Fab Melo, but I was also hoping for Draymond Green.  Coach Izzo had said that he was the best player he had ever coached and that plus his outstanding college play was enough for me.    So it seems that Green should have been one of the picks but itís hard to pick against Melo unless you use hindsight.   Melo really looked great in college especially given his limited time playing Basketball.   Maybe if he had passed his classes he would have been exposed in the tournament but if you are truly honest he looked like a serviceable rim protector at worst to a super star at best.  The only other choice for a center at that point in the draft would have been Festus Ezeli, who would have been better than Melo but Melo looked so much better than him in college.
2013 This was the KO trade up.  I was hoping for Steven Adams to fall to us but when we got KO I was loving it.   Iím actually a fan of Gonzaga and thought KO was going to be a star.   Sure the clear miss was on Giannis Adetokoubo who went two picks latter, `but even if I didnít pick KO I probably would have taken Shabazz Muhammad before Giannis.  Looking back its easy to say they messed that draft up but Olynyk looked like the real deal and NBA ready while Giannis and Gobert were clearly going to need time.  We were in a serious win now mode and didnít have time to develop a player. 
Once Rondo went down the 2013 season it was all over and we needed to move to rebuild mode.  Then came the Doc to LA and the Brooklyn trade.   Boston did try to make one more move to get DeAndre Jordan before that but there were issues with that and it broke down. 
We have two rookies in Jayson Tatum and Semi Ojeleye, as well as a second and third year players in Brown and Rozier playing a big part of why we are wining.  If the Cs had drafted differently I believe Doc could have coached them to a few more titles but at the time of the picks they really didnít look bad.   The only difference if I was involved in the picks would have been me picking Pekovic in 08 and probably blowing the Avery Bradley pick in 2010.