Author Topic: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?  (Read 1811 times)

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Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2018, 12:45:15 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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He is dying to own a team ..like Jordon ...part of his goal to be the greatest ever in ALL aspects of the NBA .  He needs way more money .  Billion is alot of millions.

Eventually if you ride a motorcycle long enough your luck runs out . 

He been riding a long time.

Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2018, 12:47:58 PM »

Online Moranis

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He's going to LA, imo. His next move is about more than basketball.
People keep saying that, but James has said countless times he wants to be known as the greatest ever and catch Jordan, I just can't see him all of a sudden reversing course and making his next move not be about basketball and catching Jordan.  Now if the Cavs pull off a miracle and win this year, especially if they somehow beat Golden State, then you will see a ground swell of support for him as the GOAT and that might actually allow him to go to a place like LA.

Two problems with that concept, Lebron: (1) even if you win another 3 titles, it will be by forming another Miami type pact, and that will taint/asterisk your accomplishment next to Jordan, who did his 6 'chips on a home grown, organic basis; and (2) If winning the most championships is the goal to be considered all time greatest, you need 8 more, bro. 

Just ask Bill Russell.
He doesn't have to win the most titles to be considered the GOAT though because statistically he will be the greatest player of all time (he easily could end up as the all time leading scorer, top 10 in assists and steals, top 30 in rebounds - plus the playoff leader in basically everything).  If he ends up with something like 5 titles (say 5-7 in Finals), plus all of the stats, I think he ends up pretty widely regarded as the best ever especially if the Cavs somehow manage to beat Golden State this year.
The odds of LeBron winning 2 more titles and going from 68th all time in rebounding in the limited amount of time he has left are incredibly slim though.

As for the last bit, there is almost literally no chance that happens
I agree, I don't see how they beat Golden State.  That said, I could absolutely see Lebron ending up right around 25th all time in rebounding (though he wouldn't stay there all that long).  He will have to play another 6 or 7 years though, but to get the points he will need probably 5 seasons anyway (and I do think he sticks around long enough to get the points).  If he plays that long, he also could end up passing Kidd for 2nd all time in assists (that also depends on Chris Paul and where he ends up), but either way he should be no worse than 4th all time assists (should only be behind Stockton, Kidd, and maybe Paul).

And he doesn't necessarily have to be his team's best player to get credit for titles.  I mean Kobe gets credit for 5 titles, when he clearly was behind Shaq for the first 3.  He can't be a bit role player on the bench, but he doesn't have to be the unquestioned leader either. 

Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2018, 01:06:50 PM »

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He's going to LA, imo. His next move is about more than basketball.
People keep saying that, but James has said countless times he wants to be known as the greatest ever and catch Jordan, I just can't see him all of a sudden reversing course and making his next move not be about basketball and catching Jordan.  Now if the Cavs pull off a miracle and win this year, especially if they somehow beat Golden State, then you will see a ground swell of support for him as the GOAT and that might actually allow him to go to a place like LA.

Two problems with that concept, Lebron: (1) even if you win another 3 titles, it will be by forming another Miami type pact, and that will taint/asterisk your accomplishment next to Jordan, who did his 6 'chips on a home grown, organic basis; and (2) If winning the most championships is the goal to be considered all time greatest, you need 8 more, bro. 

Just ask Bill Russell.
He doesn't have to win the most titles to be considered the GOAT though because statistically he will be the greatest player of all time (he easily could end up as the all time leading scorer, top 10 in assists and steals, top 30 in rebounds - plus the playoff leader in basically everything).  If he ends up with something like 5 titles (say 5-7 in Finals), plus all of the stats, I think he ends up pretty widely regarded as the best ever especially if the Cavs somehow manage to beat Golden State this year.
The odds of LeBron winning 2 more titles and going from 68th all time in rebounding in the limited amount of time he has left are incredibly slim though.

As for the last bit, there is almost literally no chance that happens
I agree, I don't see how they beat Golden State.  That said, I could absolutely see Lebron ending up right around 25th all time in rebounding (though he wouldn't stay there all that long).  He will have to play another 6 or 7 years though, but to get the points he will need probably 5 seasons anyway (and I do think he sticks around long enough to get the points).  If he plays that long, he also could end up passing Kidd for 2nd all time in assists (that also depends on Chris Paul and where he ends up), but either way he should be no worse than 4th all time assists (should only be behind Stockton, Kidd, and maybe Paul).

And he doesn't necessarily have to be his team's best player to get credit for titles.  I mean Kobe gets credit for 5 titles, when he clearly was behind Shaq for the first 3.  He can't be a bit role player on the bench, but he doesn't have to be the unquestioned leader either.

You started off comparing the Jordan standard then switched to Kobe. Nice.

Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2018, 01:19:46 PM »

Offline mef730

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If LeBron heads west and the Celtics stay healthy, is there anyone who can prevent us from walking to the finals?

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Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2018, 02:13:54 PM »

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Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2018, 02:21:11 PM »

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He's going to LA, imo. His next move is about more than basketball.
People keep saying that, but James has said countless times he wants to be known as the greatest ever and catch Jordan, I just can't see him all of a sudden reversing course and making his next move not be about basketball and catching Jordan.  Now if the Cavs pull off a miracle and win this year, especially if they somehow beat Golden State, then you will see a ground swell of support for him as the GOAT and that might actually allow him to go to a place like LA.

Two problems with that concept, Lebron: (1) even if you win another 3 titles, it will be by forming another Miami type pact, and that will taint/asterisk your accomplishment next to Jordan, who did his 6 'chips on a home grown, organic basis; and (2) If winning the most championships is the goal to be considered all time greatest, you need 8 more, bro. 

Just ask Bill Russell.
He doesn't have to win the most titles to be considered the GOAT though because statistically he will be the greatest player of all time (he easily could end up as the all time leading scorer, top 10 in assists and steals, top 30 in rebounds - plus the playoff leader in basically everything).  If he ends up with something like 5 titles (say 5-7 in Finals), plus all of the stats, I think he ends up pretty widely regarded as the best ever especially if the Cavs somehow manage to beat Golden State this year.
The odds of LeBron winning 2 more titles and going from 68th all time in rebounding in the limited amount of time he has left are incredibly slim though.

As for the last bit, there is almost literally no chance that happens
I agree, I don't see how they beat Golden State.  That said, I could absolutely see Lebron ending up right around 25th all time in rebounding (though he wouldn't stay there all that long).  He will have to play another 6 or 7 years though, but to get the points he will need probably 5 seasons anyway (and I do think he sticks around long enough to get the points).  If he plays that long, he also could end up passing Kidd for 2nd all time in assists (that also depends on Chris Paul and where he ends up), but either way he should be no worse than 4th all time assists (should only be behind Stockton, Kidd, and maybe Paul).

And he doesn't necessarily have to be his team's best player to get credit for titles.  I mean Kobe gets credit for 5 titles, when he clearly was behind Shaq for the first 3.  He can't be a bit role player on the bench, but he doesn't have to be the unquestioned leader either.

You started off comparing the Jordan standard then switched to Kobe. Nice.
I was merely saying that the fact that Kobe wasn't the #1 option on 3 of his 5 titles hasn't stopped people from saying Kobe has 5 to James' 3.  As long as James is a meaningful contributor and wins a couple of more, I think he will end up being widely regarded as the best player ever (some will have him there even without the 2 extra titles, I just think a lot of those in the Jordan camp will be swayed if he manages a couple of more).
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 02:30:17 PM by Moranis »

Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2018, 06:01:55 PM »

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He's going to LA, imo. His next move is about more than basketball.
People keep saying that, but James has said countless times he wants to be known as the greatest ever and catch Jordan, I just can't see him all of a sudden reversing course and making his next move not be about basketball and catching Jordan.  Now if the Cavs pull off a miracle and win this year, especially if they somehow beat Golden State, then you will see a ground swell of support for him as the GOAT and that might actually allow him to go to a place like LA.

Two problems with that concept, Lebron: (1) even if you win another 3 titles, it will be by forming another Miami type pact, and that will taint/asterisk your accomplishment next to Jordan, who did his 6 'chips on a home grown, organic basis; and (2) If winning the most championships is the goal to be considered all time greatest, you need 8 more, bro. 

Just ask Bill Russell.
He doesn't have to win the most titles to be considered the GOAT though because statistically he will be the greatest player of all time (he easily could end up as the all time leading scorer, top 10 in assists and steals, top 30 in rebounds - plus the playoff leader in basically everything).  If he ends up with something like 5 titles (say 5-7 in Finals), plus all of the stats, I think he ends up pretty widely regarded as the best ever especially if the Cavs somehow manage to beat Golden State this year.
The odds of LeBron winning 2 more titles and going from 68th all time in rebounding in the limited amount of time he has left are incredibly slim though.

As for the last bit, there is almost literally no chance that happens
If itís really legacy he is after, then keep in mind that he knows he wonít catch Jordan for rings (or Russell obviously).  What he CAN do for notoriety is win with 3 different teams.  Nobodyís done that and it could be argued it is harder, as well as validate him.  So if itís mainly legacy, I say he goes elsewhere.

That said, leaving Cleveland again could cause riots.

Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2018, 06:37:59 PM »

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I get that Clevland doesn't look that great right now, but there isnt a single obvious landing spot for him. Houston has the problem that there are already two ball dominant guys there, and they would have to sacrifice a ton of pieces to make the cap math work. Phili is interesting, but his style clashes with Simmons and there may not be enough shooting to maximize that team. If LeBron has the ball in his hands, what exactly does Simmons provide? Spurs would be interesting but they have Kawhi drama going down. Lakers are probably the bets bet but even if you add him and George does that team compete with GSW? No. You'd need a third, big time star. maybe thats Kawhi but no guarantee.

Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2018, 07:58:33 AM »

Offline Green-18

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After yesterday I am 100% convinced that LeBron is leaving Cleveland regardless of whether or not the Cavs advance to the NBA Finals.  Did anyone else read the ESPN article about LeBron spending more time "walking" than any other NBA player?  At 33 years old he is not capable of being an entire offense without sacrificing the majority of his defensive effort.  LeBron is resting on the court out of necessity.  I doubt he will enjoy spending the rest of his career like this. 

LeBron should be in the top 10 all-time for minutes played by the end of next season.  Nearly the entire top 10 is composed of Centers and traditional Power Forwards.  The only guards and wings are Jason Kidd, Kobe Bryant, and John Stockton.  None of those three were performing anywhere near LeBron's level at this point in their career.

The blame for this predicament falls 100% on his shoulders.  This is what he gets for trying to control an entire franchise for the past 4 seasons. 


   

Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2018, 08:32:47 AM »

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If rockets get destroyed , the Lebron to Rockets ......this is what Bron is watching ....wants to play with CP3 .   Joining Lonzo might be a multi year deal just to make finals , he is running out of years , PG3 is not beating GS, Rockets or Celtics

If Rockets win Title ,  Then Bron to Lakers or he just stays in Clevland .


Not seeing Bron and Simmons together ,  will mess up Simmons progress into his own self.

Bron to Knicks is just him wanting out of Cleveland period .

he has maybe 2 great years ,  4 good ones.left.

Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2018, 08:44:12 AM »

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If LeBron heads west and the Celtics stay healthy, is there anyone who can prevent us from walking to the finals?

Mike
If Embiid stays healthy, the Sixers are gonna be a force to be reckoned with. Not to mention, they have max cap space this summer.

Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2018, 08:55:46 AM »

Offline Green-18

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If rockets get destroyed , the Lebron to Rockets ......this is what Bron is watching ....wants to play with CP3 .   Joining Lonzo might be a multi year deal just to make finals , he is running out of years , PG3 is not beating GS, Rockets or Celtics

If Rockets win Title ,  Then Bron to Lakers or he just stays in Clevland .


Not seeing Bron and Simmons together ,  will mess up Simmons progress into his own self.

Bron to Knicks is just him wanting out of Cleveland period .

he has maybe 2 great years ,  4 good ones.left.

Houston is no doubt the most logical move for an immediate title run.  The only issue is that CP3 isn't getting any younger and I still don't know if they get past Golden State.  The Warriors fit together perfectly.  The entire core is also in its prime.  A failure in Houston could turn ugly very quickly. 

I wouldn't rule out the Sixers yet.  LeBron might want the opportunity to extend his career by adjusting his game to support Embiid and Simmons.  This goes against everything LeBron has done in the past, but he's at a point where he can't shoulder the same workload anymore. 

He can allow Simmons to run the show by spending most of his time off the ball and on the low block.   

Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2018, 09:14:10 AM »

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If rockets get destroyed , the Lebron to Rockets ......this is what Bron is watching ....wants to play with CP3 .   Joining Lonzo might be a multi year deal just to make finals , he is running out of years , PG3 is not beating GS, Rockets or Celtics

If Rockets win Title ,  Then Bron to Lakers or he just stays in Clevland .


Not seeing Bron and Simmons together ,  will mess up Simmons progress into his own self.

Bron to Knicks is just him wanting out of Cleveland period .

he has maybe 2 great years ,  4 good ones.left.

Houston is no doubt the most logical move for an immediate title run.  The only issue is that CP3 isn't getting any younger and I still don't know if they get past Golden State.  The Warriors fit together perfectly.  The entire core is also in its prime. 

I wouldn't rule out the Sixers yet.  LeBron might want the opportunity to extend his career by adjusting his game to support Embiid and Simmons.  This goes against everything LeBron has done in the past, but he's at a point where he can't shoulder the same workload anymore. 

He can allow Simmons to run the show by spending most of his time off the ball and on the low block.   
Problem is, the Cavs would have pretty much zero incentive to accommodate a sign and trade with the Rockets. I mean, only way this works financially would be

Anderson + Gordon + as many firsts as needed for LeBron

Assuming the Cavs accept such a deal, they 'd be stuck with an outrageous payroll and no realistic chance of title contention. Why would they wanna do that, just for the sake of a couple of first rounders in the late 20s? The luxury tax would be huge next year whereas the benefits would be questionable to say the least.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 09:20:28 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2018, 09:19:54 AM »

Offline Rosco917

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LeBron has to go to a team where he actually fit's. A team where he can be ball dominant. At present that isn't LA unless they want to stall the progress of Lonzo Ball or LeBron wants to alter his game. He isn't stupid, he knows the path to the finals comes from the East and there is a time limit, he's 33. 

My guess is he stays in Cleveland and reloads.

Re: Lebron has to leave cleveland, right?
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2018, 09:25:49 AM »

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If rockets get destroyed , the Lebron to Rockets ......this is what Bron is watching ....wants to play with CP3 .   Joining Lonzo might be a multi year deal just to make finals , he is running out of years , PG3 is not beating GS, Rockets or Celtics

If Rockets win Title ,  Then Bron to Lakers or he just stays in Clevland .


Not seeing Bron and Simmons together ,  will mess up Simmons progress into his own self.

Bron to Knicks is just him wanting out of Cleveland period .

he has maybe 2 great years ,  4 good ones.left.

Houston is no doubt the most logical move for an immediate title run.  The only issue is that CP3 isn't getting any younger and I still don't know if they get past Golden State.  The Warriors fit together perfectly.  The entire core is also in its prime. 

I wouldn't rule out the Sixers yet.  LeBron might want the opportunity to extend his career by adjusting his game to support Embiid and Simmons.  This goes against everything LeBron has done in the past, but he's at a point where he can't shoulder the same workload anymore. 

He can allow Simmons to run the show by spending most of his time off the ball and on the low block.   
Problem is, the Cavs would have pretty much zero incentive to accommodate a sign and trade with the Rockets. I mean, only way this works financially would be

Anderson + Gordon + as many firsts as needed for LeBron

Assuming the Cavs accept such a deal, they 'd be stuck with an outrageous payroll and no realistic chance of title contention. Why would they wanna do that, just for the sake of a couple of first rounders in the late 20s? The luxury tax would be huge next year whereas the benefits would be questionable to say the least.
The Cavs can get out of Smith or Thompson with a few other salaries coming back from Houston (which they have).  That still might not be enough, but it would at least soften the blow a bit.