Author Topic: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.  (Read 897 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CelticsElite

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7470
  • Tommy Points: 511
At least one general manager believes the decision from Isaiah Thomas not to undergo surgery on his injured hip last offseason is a red flag.

Thomas underwent surgery at the end of this season.

"Itís a red flag that he did not have surgery on it," one general manager told Sporting News. "If you have a problem that can be fixed heading into your free-agent year, you get surgery. If there is concern that you canít fix it with surgery, that means probably there is something more wrong. It is something that, obviously, the doctors will look at closely."

Thomas averaged just 15.2 points in 32 games this season as he lacked the explosion that made him an MVP candidate in 16-17.

"Just given the way he played last year," another NBA executive said, "I think you canít go more than one year on him. Maybe you can do two years if you hold the second year at your option. Thatís before you even get into whether he is healthy."

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/isaiah-thomas-lakers-news-contract-free-agency-trade-rumors-injury-hip-cavs/1bhiac9kkt6za190fl3tod9nrs?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2018, 02:12:02 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3180
  • Tommy Points: 895
I think IT got some bad advice and definitely should have opted for surgery last spring, even if that meant missing most of this season.

Without surgery he still missed over 2.5 months to start the season and never found his rhythm before being shut down for good.

Hopefully this corrects his issue and he can reach where he was pre-injury and get the contract he deserves.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2018, 02:23:41 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7311
  • Tommy Points: 1228
Conservative treatments are recommended (i.e., rest, injections) before considering surgery for adults.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4677941/
 
And surgery seems effective for most athletes in terms of returning to professional sports, but the average time to follow-up in most studies is 1.5 years.  Well beyond optimal for IT.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00167-007-0332-x

Sounds like a dumb GM.  There are plenty of 'em. 
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2018, 02:28:20 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7470
  • Tommy Points: 511
Conservative treatments are recommended (i.e., rest, injections) before considering surgery for adults.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4677941/
 
And surgery seems effective for most athletes in terms of returning to professional sports, but the average time to follow-up in most studies is 1.5 years.  Well beyond optimal for IT.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00167-007-0332-x

Sounds like a dumb GM.  There are plenty of 'em.
it's injury wasn't exactly that straight forward. It was a right femoral-acetabular impingement with a labral tear. Zach lowe wrote that there was a chance IT could have missed the entire year even without surgery if the "conservative approach" didn't go smoothly (which it didn't)
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20501557/zach-lowe-celtics-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-isaiah-thomas-trade-nba

The injury was complex with risks both in the conservative approach and surgery. The worst possible outcome happened: the conservative approach means he played poorly and still reinjured after missing half the season. Had he got the surgery, he may have  missed  less  or equal time
 

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 02:44:13 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7311
  • Tommy Points: 1228
Conservative treatments are recommended (i.e., rest, injections) before considering surgery for adults.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4677941/
 
And surgery seems effective for most athletes in terms of returning to professional sports, but the average time to follow-up in most studies is 1.5 years.  Well beyond optimal for IT.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00167-007-0332-x

Sounds like a dumb GM.  There are plenty of 'em.
it's injury wasn't exactly that straight forward. It was a right femoral-acetabular impingement with a labral tear. Zach lowe wrote that there was a chance IT could have missed the entire year even without surgery if the "conservative approach" didn't go smoothly (which it didn't)
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20501557/zach-lowe-celtics-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-isaiah-thomas-trade-nba

The injury was complex with risks both in the conservative approach and surgery. The worst possible outcome happened: the conservative approach means he played poorly and still reinjured after missing half the season. Had he got the surgery, he may have  missed  less  or equal time

It was about the worst case scenario for him.  Both of the studies discuss associated labral tears and arthritis, both of which he likely has . But, the range in the 2nd study was 6 months - 5.5 years.  It seems to take a long time for athletes to return to a professional level of play after that surgery.  Despite the terrible outcome, the conservative approach that's recommended was probably the safer of the two given his timeline.  The situation blows for the guy.  He gave Boston a lot.  But hopefully he has shown enough to earn a decent contract and returns to even 75% of what he was. 
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2018, 02:58:49 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3180
  • Tommy Points: 895
Conservative treatments are recommended (i.e., rest, injections) before considering surgery for adults.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4677941/
 
And surgery seems effective for most athletes in terms of returning to professional sports, but the average time to follow-up in most studies is 1.5 years.  Well beyond optimal for IT.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00167-007-0332-x

Sounds like a dumb GM.  There are plenty of 'em.

When talking about professional athletes and their bodies, the best treatment is the right treatment. With normal folk like us, doctors always want to start conservative. But for a career in which it is so short and dependent upon your body, conservative can (and possibly did) make the injury linger/worsen. Canít really tell an NBA star ďok try this and Iíll seeya in six months and see how youíre doing.Ē

IT I believe has gone on record to say negative things about how Boston handled his injury (iirc saying he information was withheld from him or something like that). So heís definitely unhappy about it.

He basically lost a full season and some, and his stock dropped even worse by trying to play than if he just went and had surgery immediately and everyone remembered him as the King in the Fourth and a 29ppg scorer in the top seed in the East.

Instead, he hobbled around the court on two different teams and clearly is not going to be the same player he was in green for the foreseeable future.

I know hindsight is always 20/20, but I donít see how the conservative approach was the correct one here. Even at 1.5 years of recovery, that gets him back on the court sometme the end of this calendar year.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2018, 03:09:31 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7470
  • Tommy Points: 511
I've read alot of medical opinions on ITs hip. a reoccurring theme in opinions was that it seems he might have a degenerative condition that Wont ever heal correctly even with surgery, and that his playstyle won't help either.  since its degenerative, he might actually  one day need a full hip replacement to walk without pain off the court when he retired. Crazy stuff

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2018, 03:14:24 AM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2360
  • Tommy Points: 245
Greg Minor hurt his hip on a single play...and never played again.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2018, 07:33:19 AM »

Offline Androslav

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1584
  • Tommy Points: 276
Why is Danny anonymous?
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2018, 08:23:37 AM »

Offline BitterJim

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5432
  • Tommy Points: 726
Conservative treatments are recommended (i.e., rest, injections) before considering surgery for adults.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4677941/
 
And surgery seems effective for most athletes in terms of returning to professional sports, but the average time to follow-up in most studies is 1.5 years.  Well beyond optimal for IT.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00167-007-0332-x

Sounds like a dumb GM.  There are plenty of 'em.

When talking about professional athletes and their bodies, the best treatment is the right treatment. With normal folk like us, doctors always want to start conservative. But for a career in which it is so short and dependent upon your body, conservative can (and possibly did) make the injury linger/worsen. Canít really tell an NBA star ďok try this and Iíll seeya in six months and see how youíre doing.Ē

IT I believe has gone on record to say negative things about how Boston handled his injury (iirc saying he information was withheld from him or something like that). So heís definitely unhappy about it.

He basically lost a full season and some, and his stock dropped even worse by trying to play than if he just went and had surgery immediately and everyone remembered him as the King in the Fourth and a 29ppg scorer in the top seed in the East.

Instead, he hobbled around the court on two different teams and clearly is not going to be the same player he was in green for the foreseeable future.

I know hindsight is always 20/20, but I donít see how the conservative approach was the correct one here. Even at 1.5 years of recovery, that gets him back on the court sometme the end of this calendar year.

That's about 6 months after he becomes a free agent. I don't blame him for wanting to get healthy quicker and finally have a shot at a big contract
I'm bitter.

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2018, 08:29:59 AM »

Offline jambr380

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7817
  • Tommy Points: 878
I'm still a little confused by this hip thing. A lot of blame has been pressed upon the Cs medical staff for not stopping IT from playing sooner, but if this is a degenerative thing, wasn't it bound to happen eventually anyway?

And even if he somehow got through the 2017-18 season relatively healthy (VERY far from a given), are we supposed to feel bad that some team didn't offer IT a near max only for him to take 1 1/2 years off and never be the same again.

I get it, IT was playing out of his mind on a value contract and the timing is a real bummer for him, but it's not the Cs fault he wasn't able to trick some team into giving him a monster contract that he surely wouldn't have lived up to.

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2018, 08:49:28 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35357
  • Tommy Points: -27782
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
I'm still a little confused by this hip thing. A lot of blame has been pressed upon the Cs medical staff for not stopping IT from playing sooner, but if this is a degenerative thing, wasn't it bound to happen eventually anyway?

And even if he somehow got through the 2017-18 season relatively healthy (VERY far from a given), are we supposed to feel bad that some team didn't offer IT a near max only for him to take 1 1/2 years off and never be the same again.

I get it, IT was playing out of his mind on a value contract and the timing is a real bummer for him, but it's not the Cs fault he wasn't able to trick some team into giving him a monster contract that he surely wouldn't have lived up to.

There are two ailments: a hip impingement and a torn labrum.

The labrum is whatís causing the major issues. The Celtics first misdiagnosed the labral tear, and then repeatedly had IT play on it, causing further damage.

The hip impingement is something IT has had his entire life.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2018, 09:07:32 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • NCE
  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27276
  • Tommy Points: 2067
Conservative treatments are recommended (i.e., rest, injections) before considering surgery for adults.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4677941/
 
And surgery seems effective for most athletes in terms of returning to professional sports, but the average time to follow-up in most studies is 1.5 years.  Well beyond optimal for IT.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00167-007-0332-x

Sounds like a dumb GM.  There are plenty of 'em.
it's injury wasn't exactly that straight forward. It was a right femoral-acetabular impingement with a labral tear. Zach lowe wrote that there was a chance IT could have missed the entire year even without surgery if the "conservative approach" didn't go smoothly (which it didn't)
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20501557/zach-lowe-celtics-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-isaiah-thomas-trade-nba

The injury was complex with risks both in the conservative approach and surgery. The worst possible outcome happened: the conservative approach means he played poorly and still reinjured after missing half the season. Had he got the surgery, he may have  missed  less  or equal time

This ^ ....exactly what I feared would happen with that hip.  The conservative approach was fine to get him through life as a golfer , father , active guy .  But, letting that hip,calm down , is not enough to prevent it getting sore againand bothering his game at the NBA level and grind.

I m kinda skeptical of the surgery he had .  It was awful fast sounding.  From the accounts people on this forum tell of their hip tear repairs , it was a major ordeal .  His visit sounded like a in and out visit .  Wondering just what exactly did the doctor do for him in NY ?   I was thinking a tear re pair was pretty serious surgery with a very long recovery as tarheels noted.  IT poped in and out like it was fast food in NY .

To get the big contract ,he is going to need to play at high level for a season .  He might be better off signing a one year deal .  Then if he is 100 % back on track renegotiate for more.


Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2018, 09:14:46 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35357
  • Tommy Points: -27782
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
I m kinda skeptical of the surgery he had .  It was awful fast sounding.  From the accounts people on this forum tell of their hip tear repairs , it was a major ordeal .  His visit sounded like a in and out visit .  Wondering just what exactly did the doctor do for him in NY ?   I was thinking a tear re pair was pretty serious surgery with a very long recovery as tarheels noted.  IT poped in and out like it was fast food in NY .

The recent surgery wasnít to fix the tear. I think it was a scope to clean out debris.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Anonymous GM: IT skipping surgery last year is a red flag.
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2018, 10:14:26 AM »

Offline triboy16f

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20556
  • Tommy Points: 519
He shouldn't have played against the Cavs period

IT4 should fire his agent.