Author Topic: Keep or Trade Rozier?  (Read 3092 times)

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Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2018, 12:35:41 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Rozier has passed my eye test. He has looked good. If I am Terry Rozier, I know that I'm a starting point guard in the NBA. I think he has at least that much confidence.

Looking around at the teams as potential fits: CLE, IND, DET, ORL, PHO.

As a Celtics fan, I want both Rozier and Smart back on the second unit. On the other hand, if you can couple Rozier with a draft pick to get a top 10 pick in a future draft, I think you make the move. Danny can continue to build a strong surplus of future talent on cheap contracts.

Rookie deals and expiring veteran contracts will become increasingly important moving forward.  We all want Marcus and Rozier back but there will be major luxury tax concerns once Jaylen Brown is due for his max deal in a few years.  I can see Rozier getting $20 million on the open market.  My guy tells me that Ainge will look to deal Rozier for a pick in the 10-12 range + a solid veteran in a contract year.  Unfortunately I can't picture a team giving up a pick inside the top 10.

It depends on the team.  Rozier is a known and a proven player.  He will cost a lot which could be a deterrent but if he is traded to a team with a lot of cap room it would not matter to them to get a player in his prime that is developed and is a starter.  You have no clue what you will get out of a top 10 pick and it will take years for that player to get to Terry's production.  There will be a lot of suiters for Terry even if it's a trade that nets the C's a 2nd year player with upside.

Part of me wonders if we should expect a better contribution out of a top 10 pick now that we have a much stronger roster.  Brad should be able to integrate a rookie's strengths more effectively with a roster of Kyrie, Hayward, Horford, Jaylen, Tatum, and Smart.  If we acquired a pick in the 9-11 range then I wouldn't mind drafting a player like Collin Sexton.
Give me Rozier for the whole year and through the playoffs. We know what he will give us. If he costs us $10-13 million a year after that so be it. We will be going for a championship. We have young players already. No need to try to develop a rookie at the expense of a proven playoff player who is just 24.

Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2018, 12:37:06 PM »

Offline konkmv

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It always depends from what you get back....

Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2018, 12:41:24 PM »

Offline jambr380

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People said the same thing about Bradley and Smart on this board.  They said it about IT as well.  The reality is there just isn't going to be this huge market for PG's, especially non-top level PG's like Rozier.  No team is going to give Rozier 17% of the cap.

I think things would have ended up differently for all three players if their respective contracts had come to an end just one year earlier. IT and Bradley went on to have less than stellar contract year campaigns with other teams and Smart showed no real improvement and proved that he might be a loose cannon (personally, I hope we re-sign Smart).

If the Cs made the ECF this year with Terry producing as he has been these first two games, then he would get a pretty good-sized contract this summer (see Biyombo in Toronto's 2016 playoff run)...but, his contract isn't up this summer. If we remain relatively healthy and re-sign Smart, Terry is relegated to 4th guard again. While he may continue to improve, he won't be able to showcase it to the rest of the league. It worked out for Turner and KO; it might not work out for Rozier.

Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2018, 12:44:32 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Rozier has passed my eye test. He has looked good. If I am Terry Rozier, I know that I'm a starting point guard in the NBA. I think he has at least that much confidence.

Looking around at the teams as potential fits: CLE, IND, DET, ORL, PHO.

As a Celtics fan, I want both Rozier and Smart back on the second unit. On the other hand, if you can couple Rozier with a draft pick to get a top 10 pick in a future draft, I think you make the move. Danny can continue to build a strong surplus of future talent on cheap contracts.

Rookie deals and expiring veteran contracts will become increasingly important moving forward.  We all want Marcus and Rozier back but there will be major luxury tax concerns once Jaylen Brown is due for his max deal in a few years.  I can see Rozier getting $20 million on the open market.  My guy tells me that Ainge will look to deal Rozier for a pick in the 10-12 range + a solid veteran in a contract year.  Unfortunately I can't picture a team giving up a pick inside the top 10.

It depends on the team.  Rozier is a known and a proven player.  He will cost a lot which could be a deterrent but if he is traded to a team with a lot of cap room it would not matter to them to get a player in his prime that is developed and is a starter.  You have no clue what you will get out of a top 10 pick and it will take years for that player to get to Terry's production.  There will be a lot of suiters for Terry even if it's a trade that nets the C's a 2nd year player with upside.

Part of me wonders if we should expect a better contribution out of a top 10 pick now that we have a much stronger roster.  Brad should be able to integrate a rookie's strengths more effectively with a roster of Kyrie, Hayward, Horford, Jaylen, Tatum, and Smart.  If we acquired a pick in the 9-11 range then I wouldn't mind drafting a player like Collin Sexton.

I lean toward keeping Rozier, because I think that maximizes our chances of a title next year. Even if we lose him for nothing, the title is forever.

That said, I'm interested in the trade thought experiment.

The problem I keep having is: who is our trade partner? Picks 9-11 are the Knicks, Philadelphia, and Charlotte. Charlotte has Kemba Walker. Philly's PG situation is hazy at best, but I don't see them giving us the 9 for Rozier. The Knicks arguably have a need, but I think they're looking at Ntilikina as their future and again you're trading inside your own division. One team that might make sense on paper is the Clips. They've got the 12 (from Detroit) and the 13 (their own). So maybe they'd be interested in spending one of those picks to get a proven but still young vet; they'd still get to keep the other pick as youth and to keep their contracts in line. One problem. Their current PG is Austin Rivers and his dad probably isn't sending him to the bench or out in a trade for TR.  It'd be something for Cleveland to give us back the Brooklyn pick for TR (it's 8th now, but could easily land 9th or 10th after the draw). They'd have to value Terry very highly to revisit that trade and send back the pick...

I suppose you could package TR with a valuable pick (Sac 19) to try to pry lose a better pick (7th? 5th?). But is a high lottery team going to want that? They're not one player away from the playoffs. And who knows where the Sac pick lands. Maybe they'll still be a bad team next year, but by winning 5 more games they end up picking 12th. Or - the real nightmare - they win the draft lottery and you get Philly's pick in the high 20s.

So, who is our trading partner, then, if we want to move up this year?


Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2018, 12:46:51 PM »

Online Moranis

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Rozier has passed my eye test. He has looked good. If I am Terry Rozier, I know that I'm a starting point guard in the NBA. I think he has at least that much confidence.

Looking around at the teams as potential fits: CLE, IND, DET, ORL, PHO.

As a Celtics fan, I want both Rozier and Smart back on the second unit. On the other hand, if you can couple Rozier with a draft pick to get a top 10 pick in a future draft, I think you make the move. Danny can continue to build a strong surplus of future talent on cheap contracts.

Rookie deals and expiring veteran contracts will become increasingly important moving forward.  We all want Marcus and Rozier back but there will be major luxury tax concerns once Jaylen Brown is due for his max deal in a few years.  I can see Rozier getting $20 million on the open market.  My guy tells me that Ainge will look to deal Rozier for a pick in the 10-12 range + a solid veteran in a contract year.  Unfortunately I can't picture a team giving up a pick inside the top 10.

It depends on the team.  Rozier is a known and a proven player.  He will cost a lot which could be a deterrent but if he is traded to a team with a lot of cap room it would not matter to them to get a player in his prime that is developed and is a starter.  You have no clue what you will get out of a top 10 pick and it will take years for that player to get to Terry's production.  There will be a lot of suiters for Terry even if it's a trade that nets the C's a 2nd year player with upside.

Part of me wonders if we should expect a better contribution out of a top 10 pick now that we have a much stronger roster.  Brad should be able to integrate a rookie's strengths more effectively with a roster of Kyrie, Hayward, Horford, Jaylen, Tatum, and Smart.  If we acquired a pick in the 9-11 range then I wouldn't mind drafting a player like Collin Sexton.

I lean toward keeping Rozier, because I think that maximizes our chances of a title next year. Even if we lose him for nothing, the title is forever.

That said, I'm interested in the trade thought experiment.

The problem I keep having is: who is our trade partner? Picks 9-11 are the Knicks, Philadelphia, and Charlotte. Charlotte has Kemba Walker. Philly's PG situation is hazy at best, but I don't see them giving us the 9 for Rozier. The Knicks arguably have a need, but I think they're looking at Ntilikina as their future and again you're trading inside your own division. One team that might make sense on paper is the Clips. They've got the 12 (from Detroit) and the 13 (their own). So maybe they'd be interested in spending one of those picks to get a proven but still young vet; they'd still get to keep the other pick as youth and to keep their contracts in line. One problem. Their current PG is Austin Rivers. Wonder how the GM feels about trading him. Also, 12th pick is a little light. It'd be something for Cleveland to give us back the Brooklyn pick for TR (it's 8th now, but could easily land 9th or 10th). They'd have to value Terry very highly to revisit that trade...

I suppose you could package TR with a valuable pick (Sac 19) to try to pry lose a higher pick. But is a high lottery team going to want that? Who knows where the Sac pick lands. Maybe it'll be high. Maybe they'll still be a bad team, but by winning 5 more games they'll end up picking 12th. Or - nightmare - they win the draft lottery and you get Philly's pick in the high 20s.

So, who is our trading partner, then, if we want to move up this year?
Rozier isn't going to get a top 10 pick.
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Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2018, 12:54:39 PM »

Offline rochrist

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Rozier stays, Smart goes. Ainge loves Rozier.

Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2018, 01:20:05 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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I still think Smart will sign the QO for one more year with the Cs or will sign a 4 year/30 million deal.

There is no pressure. The decision does not have to be made for another year.

Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2018, 01:21:13 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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If Smart get resigned on the Cheap and Danny gets good value for Rozier he may be gone for a big.  If Embiid lights us up in the next round we will need a big to get by Philly in the future.
I love Rozier and we have him next year I say ride with him if we can not get a big for him.
Man Next year can not get here fast enough.
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Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2018, 02:31:04 PM »

Offline td450

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In the modern NBA, paying middle class players what they are worth is a deathtrap, and we have 5 middle class players:

Rozier
Smart
Morris
Baynes
Munroe

We will probably have to say goodbye to three of those guys next year to avoid the luxury tax threshold.  Smart will be exposed to the market next year. Rozier and Morris have one more year under cost control. There will be a minutes crunch as Hayward and Theis return.

Keeping Rozier will probably also mean Smart(probably) or Morris must go.

Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2018, 02:35:08 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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I love Terry and feel he is vital to the bench but you know he will not be happy in that role.  He could regress with less minutes.  I hate to say this but his value will never be higher and if you can get a top 10 pick this year you do it.  the team getting him will have his bird rights, 1 cheap year of service and will have incentive to move a top pick for him. 

Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2018, 02:42:43 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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have to get 1-10 pick

But i have mixed feelings .....going for a banner is what is most important .
CBS has spent time developing, so,has celtics

spent 16 th pick I think to get him.....he is worth more than that

I would take no less than 10 th pick if that.


He won't fit under cap,  unless DA lets Smart walk off .   

just my feelings ...Id feel better keeping Smart and Larkin as his backup .......getting a nice draft pick for rozier

when we hang no. 18. .....maybe i ll change my mind.


I also understand the people who think Celtics should keep him for next year s Banner run.......thats makes sense too.  Hanging a banner is worth losing him for nothing.   PLuS never know whommigjt get hurt and we need him ....

Keeping him and letting championship,run play out might be the wise move .   Only have so many years to get it done with stupid cap rules.  Paying the Luxury tax is almost a necessary sin , to over take established teams like GS loaded with players or now Philly.......if we aten't loaded ,  we can't compete.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 02:51:26 PM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2018, 02:45:28 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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In the modern NBA, paying middle class players what they are worth is a deathtrap, and we have 5 middle class players:

Rozier
Smart
Morris
Baynes
Munroe

We will probably have to say goodbye to three of those guys next year to avoid the luxury tax threshold.  Smart will be exposed to the market next year. Rozier and Morris have one more year under cost control. There will be a minutes crunch as Hayward and Theis return.

Keeping Rozier will probably also mean Smart(probably) or Morris must go.

This is definitely true, if you don't have the 3-4 cornerstones on your roster.

For instance, the Warriors paid middle-tier players like Iggy and Bogut a lot money. They still pay Livingston a good chunk of money. They would have been paying Barnes a lot of money if Durant had not come along at the perfect freaking time.

The Cs have their cornerstones established - Irving, Hayward, and Horford. They also have Brown and Tatum under contract for essentially the next 7-8 years.

At that point, it's ok to pay Smart, Rozier, Baynes, Morris, or Moose those middle (10-18 million) money contracts, as long as the owners are willing to pay the luxury tax.

Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2018, 02:53:36 PM »

Offline td450

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In the modern NBA, paying middle class players what they are worth is a deathtrap, and we have 5 middle class players:

Rozier
Smart
Morris
Baynes
Munroe

We will probably have to say goodbye to three of those guys next year to avoid the luxury tax threshold.  Smart will be exposed to the market next year. Rozier and Morris have one more year under cost control. There will be a minutes crunch as Hayward and Theis return.

Keeping Rozier will probably also mean Smart(probably) or Morris must go.

This is definitely true, if you don't have the 3-4 cornerstones on your roster.

For instance, the Warriors paid middle-tier players like Iggy and Bogut a lot money. They still pay Livingston a good chunk of money. They would have been paying Barnes a lot of money if Durant had not come along at the perfect freaking time.

The Cs have their cornerstones established - Irving, Hayward, and Horford. They also have Brown and Tatum under contract for essentially the next 7-8 years.

At that point, it's ok to pay Smart, Rozier, Baynes, Morris, or Moose those middle (10-18 million) money contracts, as long as the owners are willing to pay the luxury tax.
Of course if they want to pay the tax, but they probably don't. The Warriors are going to get absolutely crushed by the tax.

Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2018, 03:12:17 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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In the modern NBA, paying middle class players what they are worth is a deathtrap, and we have 5 middle class players:

Rozier
Smart
Morris
Baynes
Munroe

We will probably have to say goodbye to three of those guys next year to avoid the luxury tax threshold.  Smart will be exposed to the market next year. Rozier and Morris have one more year under cost control. There will be a minutes crunch as Hayward and Theis return.

Keeping Rozier will probably also mean Smart(probably) or Morris must go.

This is definitely true, if you don't have the 3-4 cornerstones on your roster.

For instance, the Warriors paid middle-tier players like Iggy and Bogut a lot money. They still pay Livingston a good chunk of money. They would have been paying Barnes a lot of money if Durant had not come along at the perfect freaking time.

The Cs have their cornerstones established - Irving, Hayward, and Horford. They also have Brown and Tatum under contract for essentially the next 7-8 years.

At that point, it's ok to pay Smart, Rozier, Baynes, Morris, or Moose those middle (10-18 million) money contracts, as long as the owners are willing to pay the luxury tax.
Of course if they want to pay the tax, but they probably don't. The Warriors are going to get absolutely crushed by the tax.

Yes, but in the mean time, the Warriors have not only won 3 championships, but have established themselves as THE NBA basketball team of this generation.

From a brand point of view, what do you think the Warriors franchise is worth? In that case, the luxury is worth it.

When the luxury tax is not worth it is when you have 1 star and overpay to put 4-5 role players around them (Bucks, Blazers, etc.). Paying the luxury tax for that not only limits the franchise's potential to win a championship, but ultimately shorts out the brands potential as well.

Re: Keep or Trade Rozier?
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2018, 03:21:04 PM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

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Keep him through next season and let him walk. It isn't letting him go for nothing. It's getting another season of Terry Rozier's services.