Author Topic: Hayward was an out West player  (Read 2012 times)

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Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2018, 12:09:58 PM »

Offline moiso

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Happy to add this white tennis player to the team.

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2018, 12:32:35 PM »

Online hpantazo

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I really never watched the Jazz,being out of country and busy watching my own son play and not watching NCAA's..
So Hayward the few times i saw him was a good white guy playing with huge center.I never saw any blazing speed or burst ,no huge vertical that got my attention.
More a tennis star playing basketball-no streets to his game.
That was before he came to Celtics,before Kyrie said how much he wanted to play with him and the Butler connection with Brad.
Is Hayward like Horford a really really good player at everything and consistent is that what makes him great

The thrill of watching Kyrie this season,the growth of Jaylen as an outside shooter,Brown playing like a vet and now Rozier
-There was the emergence of Marcus Morris,the surprise of Theis and continued defensive stardom of Smart.
It all started with we are getting Smart back for playoffs  that is a huge plus.
But then was followed quickly with the thought how good is Hayward and how ignorant i was of his talent and skills.
Watching Jaylen eviscerate the Bucks(that works) and Rozier locking horns with Bledsoe and be so dominant and exciting
 Rozier and Jaylen have that speed and athleticism that set them apart and then there is Tatum so skilled like Horford and does Hayward fit in that category???
I'm going to have to go back and watch his past highlight tapes'
How embarrassing to have to admit so little knowledge about such an important piece for Celtics but i must excuse myself because who would have thought he would go down like that.

Rollie your post has some implied biases against white guys who are not super quick or ďlongĒ.

 You know, like Larry Bird.

Think before you speak.

Everyone has some implicit biases. Everyone. It is human nature. At least Rollie is more honest than most people

He also called Hayward an Ďout westí player. Thatís another bias.

When Rollie is up front with these biases, I appreciate it because I can better evaluate his statements

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2018, 12:33:42 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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I like Rollie's posts in general, not the world's most articulate writer but it is clear is pays close attention to the game and has a lot of knowledge.  I admit that I did wince when I read the "white guy with no street" narrative.

But regarding Hayward, I did not get to see all that many Utah games so I have to reserve judgement.  I was surprised to see that per 82games,he played about equal time at the 2 and the 3 with slightly better +/- at the 2.  (He played a lot of minutes with Ingles or Joe Johnson at the 3 as listed by 82games).  I think that flexibility will be good.  That way Brown can play primarily at the 2 and Tatum can play primarily at the 3 with Hayward being a white, tennis playing, no street, 2/3 combo.

Someone will have to sit at crunch time (unless we go small which I don't like) but I think we can work that out or play match-ups.  I actually think either Tatum or Hayward off the bench would be good too, depending one how they would deal with not being a starter.

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2018, 01:01:45 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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I like Rollie's posts in general, not the world's most articulate writer but it is clear is pays close attention to the game and has a lot of knowledge.  I admit that I did wince when I read the "white guy with no street" narrative.

But regarding Hayward, I did not get to see all that many Utah games so I have to reserve judgement.  I was surprised to see that per 82games,he played about equal time at the 2 and the 3 with slightly better +/- at the 2.  (He played a lot of minutes with Ingles or Joe Johnson at the 3 as listed by 82games).  I think that flexibility will be good.  That way Brown can play primarily at the 2 and Tatum can play primarily at the 3 with Hayward being a white, tennis playing, no street, 2/3 combo.

Someone will have to sit at crunch time (unless we go small which I don't like) but I think we can work that out or play match-ups.  I actually think either Tatum or Hayward off the bench would be good too, depending one how they would deal with not being a starter.

Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Horford to close.
Twitter: @ApocryphalTale

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2018, 01:11:55 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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I've read many of your posts over the last year and I must admit that I don't really understand them.

Do you just post your daily thoughts in a series of notes scribbled on a piece of paper without organizing them? Is this some form of poetry that I haven't encountered? The entire thing seems so bizarre.

Don't worry, you are not alone with those thoughts.
He gets Tommy Boys so many must like it. But one has to read between the lines. But I would hope Rollie would try to write clearer myself. But has made some awesome points over the years on here that I have respected.
"People look at players, watch them dribble between their legs and they say, 'There's a superstar.'  Well John Havlicek is a superstar, and most of the others are figments of writers' imagination."
--Jerry West, on John Havlicek

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2018, 01:12:44 PM »

Online Green-18

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I like Rollie's posts in general, not the world's most articulate writer but it is clear is pays close attention to the game and has a lot of knowledge.  I admit that I did wince when I read the "white guy with no street" narrative.

But regarding Hayward, I did not get to see all that many Utah games so I have to reserve judgement.  I was surprised to see that per 82games,he played about equal time at the 2 and the 3 with slightly better +/- at the 2.  (He played a lot of minutes with Ingles or Joe Johnson at the 3 as listed by 82games).  I think that flexibility will be good.  That way Brown can play primarily at the 2 and Tatum can play primarily at the 3 with Hayward being a white, tennis playing, no street, 2/3 combo.

Someone will have to sit at crunch time (unless we go small which I don't like) but I think we can work that out or play match-ups.  I actually think either Tatum or Hayward off the bench would be good too, depending one how they would deal with not being a starter.

I like Rollie's posts in general, not the world's most articulate writer but it is clear is pays close attention to the game and has a lot of knowledge.  I admit that I did wince when I read the "white guy with no street" narrative.

But regarding Hayward, I did not get to see all that many Utah games so I have to reserve judgement.  I was surprised to see that per 82games,he played about equal time at the 2 and the 3 with slightly better +/- at the 2.  (He played a lot of minutes with Ingles or Joe Johnson at the 3 as listed by 82games).  I think that flexibility will be good.  That way Brown can play primarily at the 2 and Tatum can play primarily at the 3 with Hayward being a white, tennis playing, no street, 2/3 combo.

Someone will have to sit at crunch time (unless we go small which I don't like) but I think we can work that out or play match-ups.  I actually think either Tatum or Hayward off the bench would be good too, depending one how they would deal with not being a starter.

I think we are going to see Kyrie, Jaylen, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford close games (last 2-4 mins) next season.  The group should be truly special when it comes to late game execution.  Brad will still find the right opportunity to mix in some size throughout the earlier stages of the 4th. 

I'm also not overly concerned about a lack of size with the closing lineup.  Brad will utilize our length and athleticism on the defensive end.  Rebounding could be a minor problem but most of our past issues were a result of poor initial defense on the perimeter. 

As for the rest of the league, Houston is the only true contender who keeps their Center in at the end of game.  Ryan Anderson doesn't see many crunch time minutes for them at the 4.  It's usually Ariza and PJ Tucker at the 3 and 4 spots.  Tatum and Hayward will handle that matchup.  Both the Cavs and Warriors play small too. 

Your concerns over size definitely warrant concern if a team like Philly, Nola, or Minnesota were to break through to the elite tier.  However, I think the advantages of the smaller group greatly outweigh the risk against 90% of the league.

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2018, 01:54:30 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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I've read many of your posts over the last year and I must admit that I don't really understand them.

Do you just post your daily thoughts in a series of notes scribbled on a piece of paper without organizing them? Is this some form of poetry that I haven't encountered? The entire thing seems so bizarre.
Most of the time i am bedridden and hold  the laptop tilted with one hand balanced on my chest and struggle with cap button.
It used to bother people with long run on sentences. So i developed this post card style.I just post for fun and impulsively it keeps me happy and i apologize for my muddled attempts.I have had a few mini strokes, sometimes my speaking gets slurred .So maybe my thought process does also.I know my hands are shaky.
My wife will not let me watch the games live it's better if i know who won -can't kick off watching the Celts.So Premier League pass and replays the next morning but i watched Sundays overtime live "Scary good" a phrase the kids use overhear for a like Kyrie move but it was for real. Not doing that again.
Still young at heart(pun intended) you asked you got it -no self pity for me..
Just think of it as abstract,free flowing with poor punctuation habits and computer skills.
 
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 03:04:33 PM by rollie mass »

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2018, 02:04:18 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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Rollie Iíve been on Celticsblog since 2003. Iíve been with this username for years now (had another one in my teen years), and can safely say Iíve spent way too much time on these boards.

In my eyes, you and Roy H. are pillars in your own ways. You donít have to answer to anyone. You bring a good perspective and always further the conversation. Keep posting however youíd like.
Twitter: @ApocryphalTale

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2018, 02:17:26 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Love Hayward, glad we got him---saw him dominate when he played for the Jazz...But, in the few pre-season games here--he didn't look comfortable....Maybe it was because we share the offensive load? I'm sure that Brad will figure it all out.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2018, 02:19:06 PM »

Online green_bballers13

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Quote
Hayward is a good athlete with excellent skill and a high basketball IQ.  ...  As an overall player I would place Hayward in the same tier as Jimmy Butler or Paul George.   

That pretty much sums it up.

Butler? Maybe, though I'm not convinced Hayward is as good of a defender.

I think Paul George is a notch above Hayward. At one point, George was a top 10 player. I think Hayward is a top 25 player (healthy).

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2018, 02:20:53 PM »

Online green_bballers13

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I've read many of your posts over the last year and I must admit that I don't really understand them.

Do you just post your daily thoughts in a series of notes scribbled on a piece of paper without organizing them? Is this some form of poetry that I haven't encountered? The entire thing seems so bizarre.
Most of the time i am bedridden and hold  the laptop tilted with one hand balanced on my chest and struggle with cap button.
It used to bother people with long run on sentences. So i developed this post card style.I just post for fun and impulsively it keeps me happy and i apologize for my muddled attempts.I have had a few mini strokes, sometimes my speaking gets slurred .So maybe my thought process does also.I know my hands are shaky.
My wife will not let me watch the games live it's better if i know who won -can't kick off watching the Celts.
Still young at heart(pun intended) you asked you got it -no self pity for me..
Just think of it as abstract,free flowing with poor punctuation habits and computer skills.

I don't care at all about your sentence structure. I love the thoughts!

Grammar police on the internet are strange. If you don't understand what he's saying, send him a message. If you don't care enough to do so, why post here?

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2018, 02:30:06 PM »

Online hpantazo

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Quote
Hayward is a good athlete with excellent skill and a high basketball IQ.  ...  As an overall player I would place Hayward in the same tier as Jimmy Butler or Paul George.   

That pretty much sums it up.

Butler? Maybe, though I'm not convinced Hayward is as good of a defender.

I think Paul George is a notch above Hayward. At one point, George was a top 10 player. I think Hayward is a top 25 player (healthy).


George was never a top 10 player. He was hyped up as one, sure, but he never actually achieved that status on the court. That was also back when Roy Hibbert and Lance Stephenson looked like all-stars, so take all that hype with a grain of salt.

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2018, 02:48:59 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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Was i politically incorrect with"white guy with no street game" if it offended anyone sorry
-I thought it was self deprecating as to my ignorance of never paying attention to his play and i didn't go back because of accolades he received and i was going to watch him play for us all season
Even the subject" out West player" was tongue in cheek like you know we only play them twice a year and don't follow Western conference till the Finals.
My posts are at times made for responses-lets say i don't have an affinity and no experience being a center or power forward but was a tall point guard for Rollie Massimino that could shoot and as he said a killer first step you couldn't teach.It was the timing of ball to floor and lifting your back foot an imperceptible travel that gave a milsecond advantage
But Horford i get,Theis i get Monroe i don't sort off
 Although i understand his passing and offensive board work and when i think about it down low
You guys got me sitting up-
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 03:06:53 PM by rollie mass »

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2018, 03:14:47 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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Some thoughts on the this thread
1. Before the season I thought Hayward would be our best player (mostly because Kyrie isn't great defensively)
2. In terms of athleticism, the Jazz would run backdoor alley-oops to Hayward a couple times a game. I think that speaks to his athleticism. In fact I believe the Celtics would have done the same (since it was on that exact play Hayward was hurt).
3. Hayward is a knockdown shooter, can create in isolation, out of the pick and roll, score off cuts, spotting up or in the post. He might not be as athletic as long/athletic as George or as strong as Butler but he makes up for it by being able to score in every way possible.
4. I expect this team to not only finish with Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Hayward and Horford I expect them to start that way too.
DKC:  Rockets
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Players: Klay Thompson, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon
Next 3 picks: 4.14, 4.15, 4.19

Re: Hayward was an out West player
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2018, 03:23:26 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Some thoughts on the this thread
1. Before the season I thought Hayward would be our best player (mostly because Kyrie isn't great defensively)
2. In terms of athleticism, the Jazz would run backdoor alley-oops to Hayward a couple times a game. I think that speaks to his athleticism. In fact I believe the Celtics would have done the same (since it was on that exact play Hayward was hurt).
3. Hayward is a knockdown shooter, can create in isolation, out of the pick and roll, score off cuts, spotting up or in the post. He might not be as athletic as long/athletic as George or as strong as Butler but he makes up for it by being able to score in every way possible.
4. I expect this team to not only finish with Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Hayward and Horford I expect them to start that way too.

As to your number 2 point, Hayward had more dunks last year than either Jimmy Butler or Paul George. I think that shows something about his athleticism.