Author Topic: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?  (Read 3677 times)

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Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2018, 11:50:45 AM »

Offline Rondo9

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Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.
I guess one could argue anything... as long as it conveniently fits their preconceived narrative.
exactly.  There are missed or bad calls every game on both sides.  Over the course of a season it generally evens out, but recency bias makes it seem terrible in the heat of a moment.  The fouls ended up pretty similar last night, and aside from Lebron's FT's those were pretty even as well, but Lebron was a man on a mission last night and was super aggressive and drew a lot of shooting fouls.

Yet the Pacers had more points in the paint?
a fast break dunk is points in the paint.  That alone doesn't tell much of anything.

They also took less threes, that tells me that they were more aggressive.

Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2018, 12:16:13 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.

Yet the opposite happened in Oklahoma City last night!!  I agree with you overall, but that didn't happen in OKC last night.  For those that watched the end of the that game, it was blatantly clear.

Smitty77

Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2018, 12:17:11 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.

Here is an email I just sent to a buddy a few minutes ago about me being worried about the refs DECIDING our game on Friday night:

I am worried as I literally watched the NBA decide the OKC/Jazz game last night by literally giving all the calls to the Jazz down the stretch.  They sent Mitchell to the line when he was NOT EVEN TOUCHED!!!!!  Gobert got all the calls OVER Steven Adams, one of the BEST defensive centers in the NBA and Adams fouled out on a bull crap call.  All of this IN Oklahoma City!!!!  Very sad!!!  The NBA and the refs clearly WANTED Utah to win this game.  Unreal!!!!

Smitty77

I noticed this with Utah last night too. Seems like they wanted to make sure Utah gives them a long series.


more games = mo money , Peoples watching ads .....ads is TV money ....$$$$  :D

= rich media magnates +  NBA owners ......smiling

Now ...Why you want to have sweeps and make dem folks poor.

Donít the refs get paid per game in the playoffs?

Some 💰💰💰incentive for them, too?

What a fabulous point and one that I had not thought about!!

Smitty77

Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2018, 12:39:33 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.
I guess one could argue anything... as long as it conveniently fits their preconceived narrative.
exactly.  There are missed or bad calls every game on both sides.  Over the course of a season it generally evens out, but recency bias makes it seem terrible in the heat of a moment.  The fouls ended up pretty similar last night, and aside from Lebron's FT's those were pretty even as well, but Lebron was a man on a mission last night and was super aggressive and drew a lot of shooting fouls.

Yet the Pacers had more points in the paint?
a fast break dunk is points in the paint.  That alone doesn't tell much of anything.

They also took less threes, that tells me that they were more aggressive.

Yes, the Cavs definitely seemed to shoot more jumpshots. In addition to shooting 6 less 3's the Pacers actually shot 5 more shots. That first foul on Oladipo really didn't pass the smell test. Really wish the Refs would just call Oladipo and Lebron the same.

Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2018, 12:47:38 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.

Yet the opposite happened in Oklahoma City last night!!  I agree with you overall, but that didn't happen in OKC last night.  For those that watched the end of the that game, it was blatantly clear.

Smitty77

It was pretty underhanded of those refs to make Westbrook, George, and Melo go 0-14 in the fourth quarter.

Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2018, 12:49:44 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.
I guess one could argue anything... as long as it conveniently fits their preconceived narrative.
exactly.  There are missed or bad calls every game on both sides.  Over the course of a season it generally evens out, but recency bias makes it seem terrible in the heat of a moment.  The fouls ended up pretty similar last night, and aside from Lebron's FT's those were pretty even as well, but Lebron was a man on a mission last night and was super aggressive and drew a lot of shooting fouls.

Yet the Pacers had more points in the paint?
a fast break dunk is points in the paint.  That alone doesn't tell much of anything.

They also took less threes, that tells me that they were more aggressive.
Sure, but aside from James the Cavs had 9 FT's to the Pacers 12.  The FT discrepancy was all James and his 13 FT's. 

Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2018, 01:59:00 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.

Yet the opposite happened in Oklahoma City last night!!  I agree with you overall, but that didn't happen in OKC last night.  For those that watched the end of the that game, it was blatantly clear.

Smitty77

It was pretty underhanded of those refs to make Westbrook, George, and Melo go 0-14 in the fourth quarter.

Fairweatherfan, I do agree with you that you can find an angle to complain about refs for every single game. I didn't seen enough of the utah game to comment on it. That being said, what happened in this pacers game is exactly what Tim Donoghy said the NBA would do (which I think was at least loosely based on the truth, he wasn't some brilliant story teller). Which is to call the game tight for a certain player cause they are instructed that player got away with some missed calls, or something was noticed in reviewing the film from the previous game.

 I really don't think it is a pie in the sky conspiracy theory to say the refs were said to watch for Oladipo charging on his drives or watch for Oladipo fighting through screens in their pregame notes. This isn't a conspiracy theory to the level of saying the refs were handed a note pregame that said "pacers must lose, do it at all costs." I would say sometimes these notes about to watch for are actually legit. Yesterday, just watching the game it really stood out to give a star player 2 ticky tack fouls in 68 seconds. I think the first foul was a block cause the guy was moving and in the restricted area. The second foul was a fighting through the screen foul that can be called on just about every play. You add into this all that Oladipo only averaged 2.3 fouls per 34 minutes on the season and the whole thing really didn't add up. Did you watch these plays? What do you think? 

Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2018, 02:38:11 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Sickening and yet so predictable. I hope there is some beat writer out there somewhere with the balls to write an article calling out the NBA for this stuff. But there isn't.

I don't get how everyone can see it plain as day and tweet it out and nobody will. The MLB doesn't have this. The NFL doesn't have this. Sickening.
In Champions league all is rigged - this is heaven.
The groups themselves,
the elimination games draw,
the games itself off course - all rigged.

The other day they have already printed the tickets before the official semi final draw. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-5612603/Champions-League-fix-scandal-erupts-Roma-offer-Liverpool-tickets-draw-made.html

Sometimes they don't call 4 penalties in one game against a single team and the result ended up 1:1. Just enough to squeeze Barca in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JhXLK_-DRo

When Fifa or Uefa decide to face the corruption, they do it to a 80 y/o guy Swiss guy that was already filling his (and theirs) pockets for 50 years and is about to retire since he had enough.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/sepp-blatter-fifa-launch-investigation-into-former-president-for-alleged-bribery-and-corruption-a7233821.html

I follow the NBA partially because it has the least rigging of all major team sports I like. But yeah, LBJ is still the golden cow, NBA wants more games regardless, it wants its SStars to look like winners, even when they are over the hill.
However, NBA requires a team to reach 4 wins in a series to advance - it is much harder to rig 4 out of 7 games than a single game or home and away.
Also, a football match or a home and away can be decided by a single possession (0:1,0:0=0:1)
For example - one nonexistent penalty kick would suffice.

Basketball remains the easiest game to be influenced by refs. Just call some quick fouls on a team's dominant player and you have limited his influence on the game. See what happened to Oladipo yesterday. When Taj Gibson played at USC he was eating North Carolina's lunch in the. NCAA tournament and USC was on its way to victory, some quick fouls fouled him out and that was that..North Carolina won.

The refs can also control game by calling a tight game when they want to favor the team that scores from the perimeter,, and a loose game when they want to favor a team that plays in the paint..very easy to influence a game

Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2018, 02:46:15 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.

Absolutely.
I was actually pretty confident that Giannis would foul out eventually in the OT after the BS block call and the "jump-ball" where he tackled Tatum from behind.

Just was worried he'd get the Bucks a lead before it happened. I thought it was hilarious when he got called for the same exact play one minute later.

Even more hilarious was his reaction.

Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2018, 02:51:10 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Oh good, the conspiracy threads are back.  Though in fairness the old ones were always spot-on with their prediction that the NBA would force a LeBron vs Kobe Finals matchup every year.

How can you call it a conspiracy theory when the announcers and players even admit that certain calls are 'rookie' calls and certain calls will never be called against a star? Why is it easier to score beer at a Amish retreat than to foul out an NBA star? Why do they call phantom fouls on players not even close to the action and why do the referees keep count on the number of fouls on certain players?

Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2018, 03:12:45 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Oh good, the conspiracy threads are back.  Though in fairness the old ones were always spot-on with their prediction that the NBA would force a LeBron vs Kobe Finals matchup every year.

How can you call it a conspiracy theory when the announcers and players even admit that certain calls are 'rookie' calls and certain calls will never be called against a star? Why is it easier to score beer at a Amish retreat than to foul out an NBA star? Why do they call phantom fouls on players not even close to the action and why do the referees keep count on the number of fouls on certain players?

I don't see how anyone can view the lack of fouls called on Lebron throughout his career, for an extremely physical player, as anything but an embarrassment for the league.

Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2018, 03:13:59 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.

Yet the opposite happened in Oklahoma City last night!!  I agree with you overall, but that didn't happen in OKC last night.  For those that watched the end of the that game, it was blatantly clear.

Smitty77

It was pretty underhanded of those refs to make Westbrook, George, and Melo go 0-14 in the fourth quarter.

Fairweatherfan, I do agree with you that you can find an angle to complain about refs for every single game. I didn't seen enough of the utah game to comment on it. That being said, what happened in this pacers game is exactly what Tim Donoghy said the NBA would do (which I think was at least loosely based on the truth, he wasn't some brilliant story teller). Which is to call the game tight for a certain player cause they are instructed that player got away with some missed calls, or something was noticed in reviewing the film from the previous game.

 I really don't think it is a pie in the sky conspiracy theory to say the refs were said to watch for Oladipo charging on his drives or watch for Oladipo fighting through screens in their pregame notes. This isn't a conspiracy theory to the level of saying the refs were handed a note pregame that said "pacers must lose, do it at all costs." I would say sometimes these notes about to watch for are actually legit. Yesterday, just watching the game it really stood out to give a star player 2 ticky tack fouls in 68 seconds. I think the first foul was a block cause the guy was moving and in the restricted area. The second foul was a fighting through the screen foul that can be called on just about every play. You add into this all that Oladipo only averaged 2.3 fouls per 34 minutes on the season and the whole thing really didn't add up. Did you watch these plays? What do you think?

Yeah but you're describing a player being called tighter in response to getting away with things in prior games.  That makes sense, and seems consistent with how refs ought to adjust during a series.  It's also a long way from "the refs went after Oladipo with the goal of helping the Cavs win" which was the original idea here.

I haven't been able to find clips of the first foul but I've seen clips of his 2nd and 3rd and they're both fouls. There's a defense that maybe they aren't always called, and a weaker defense that they shouldn't be called, but I don't see anything that's an egregious call in a vacuum. You'd have to already believe the "rigged" narrative to see the calls as evidence of it.

The thing about the "make the series competitive" version of that narrative is that teams that are behind tend to play with more intensity out of desperation.  And when one team's significantly more aggressive than the other, they often put their opponents off-balance and into situations where contact's made with the opponent in a poor position. Fouls aren't inevitable in those spots but they become very likely. That's what Cleveland did early and Oladipo got caught in some likely foul situations, the whistles were blown, he spent some time on the bench. Don't see anything more to it than that.


Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2018, 03:37:29 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

Thanks for the link....LBJ had to score 46 for CAVS to win by 3 points....oh and CAVS only won the first quarter which is were the refs did their major damage putting Oladipo on the bench and disrupting the rhythm of the Pacers.