Author Topic: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?  (Read 2161 times)

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Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2018, 11:33:34 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2018, 11:45:33 AM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2018, 11:59:14 AM »

Offline Erik

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I don't even want to keep Monroe over Baynes. I'd much rather have a limited offense solid defense center than the other way around.

I could possibly be on board if these were static attributes, but I think it's clear that defense can be learned more easily than offense. CBS is not going to be able to teach Baynes how to score. That stuff has been cemented in your brain since you were a kid. The guy can barely make buckets without getting blocked 1 foot away. He just doesn't have very much offensive awareness. On the other hand, Greg Monroe has been playing defense since joining us and advanced analytics confirms it. He has a role: he's a big guy and the defense funnels drives directly into him. His blocks and steals per 36 minutes are both at career highs.

Monroe is just so much better of a player. Also Theis is a better version of Baynes anyways. If we could keep one of Monroe or Baynes I think Monroe is the better and less redundant pick.

Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2018, 12:00:14 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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It might be one of those years where the defending champs might or a Lebron team isn't the favorite, how's that for saying something while dodging the jinx?

But holy cow. If we can keep Monroe especially, and Irving and Gordy come back 100%, at least by Christmas... all 5 starters and at least 3 bench players could legit average 20 on most teams. That's the top 8, possibly a playoff rotation by itself. I mean, if we really did roll with those 8, we're going to see some 140, 145 point games pretty often.
Don't know if it could happen, but I'd love to "keep the band together".  10-man rotation:
Horford
Irving
Hayward
Brown
Tatum
Rozier
Morris
Smart
Monroe
Theis

We don't have much leverage with Monroe. From what I understand, we can only offer him $5 mil? due to the way that we signed him. I doubt that will be the highest offer.

Resigning Smart will likely put us into luxury tax depending on how much he wants and what the luxury tax is for 2019. If we use the projected numbers, it turns out to leave bout 15.5 mil worth of space for him. Anything more than that and I think that if Danny is smart, he will let Smart walk for free to avoid luxury tax for 1 more year because after 2019-2020, we're going to be in luxury for a long time. I don't see it happening because I think Smart is going to ask for and get closer to 20 mil and Danny will let him walk, otherwise the extension could have been done this season.

Rest are already under contract through 2018-2019.

I'm ready to resign Moose and move on from Smart. He'll just be stealing minutes from Rozier at this point.

I'd love to put top priority on resigning Moose then Baynes if we can..

Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2018, 12:12:26 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I don't even want to keep Monroe over Baynes. I'd much rather have a limited offense solid defense center than the other way around.
I'd much rather Monroe really. Better rebounder (better hands, doesn't juggle them like Baynes sometimes does). Having the ability to run our offence through the high and low post with Monroe has been an absolute luxury

Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2018, 01:27:11 PM »

Offline Green-18

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It might be one of those years where the defending champs might or a Lebron team isn't the favorite, how's that for saying something while dodging the jinx?

But holy cow. If we can keep Monroe especially, and Irving and Gordy come back 100%, at least by Christmas... all 5 starters and at least 3 bench players could legit average 20 on most teams. That's the top 8, possibly a playoff rotation by itself. I mean, if we really did roll with those 8, we're going to see some 140, 145 point games pretty often.
Don't know if it could happen, but I'd love to "keep the band together".  10-man rotation:
Horford
Irving
Hayward
Brown
Tatum
Rozier
Morris
Smart
Monroe
Theis

We don't have much leverage with Monroe. From what I understand, we can only offer him $5 mil? due to the way that we signed him. I doubt that will be the highest offer.

Resigning Smart will likely put us into luxury tax depending on how much he wants and what the luxury tax is for 2019. If we use the projected numbers, it turns out to leave bout 15.5 mil worth of space for him. Anything more than that and I think that if Danny is smart, he will let Smart walk for free to avoid luxury tax for 1 more year because after 2019-2020, we're going to be in luxury for a long time. I don't see it happening because I think Smart is going to ask for and get closer to 20 mil and Danny will let him walk, otherwise the extension could have been done this season.

Rest are already under contract through 2018-2019.

I'm ready to resign Moose and move on from Smart. He'll just be stealing minutes from Rozier at this point.

I'd love to put top priority on resigning Moose then Baynes if we can..

I still lean toward Baynes over Monroe with a healthy group next season.  Ideally we wont need Monroe's scoring or passing next year.

Nearly all of our best defensive lineups feature Baynes on the court.  He also ranked as the 3rd best Center in DRPM.  I like Baynes as a tone setter for 15-18 MPG, especially throughout the grind of an 82 game season.  His offensive deficiencies will also be masked with the return of Hayward and Kyrie.

Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2018, 01:51:29 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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I don't even want to keep Monroe over Baynes. I'd much rather have a limited offense solid defense center than the other way around.
I'd much rather Monroe really. Better rebounder (better hands, doesn't juggle them like Baynes sometimes does). Having the ability to run our offence through the high and low post with Monroe has been an absolute luxury

Monroe's offense on the second unit has completely been a gamechanger. Baynes is a nice guy to have but I'd prefer Monroe..

Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2018, 03:16:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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It might be one of those years where the defending champs might or a Lebron team isn't the favorite, how's that for saying something while dodging the jinx?

But holy cow. If we can keep Monroe especially, and Irving and Gordy come back 100%, at least by Christmas... all 5 starters and at least 3 bench players could legit average 20 on most teams. That's the top 8, possibly a playoff rotation by itself. I mean, if we really did roll with those 8, we're going to see some 140, 145 point games pretty often.
Don't know if it could happen, but I'd love to "keep the band together".  10-man rotation:
Horford
Irving
Hayward
Brown
Tatum
Rozier
Morris
Smart
Monroe
Theis

We don't have much leverage with Monroe. From what I understand, we can only offer him $5 mil? due to the way that we signed him. I doubt that will be the highest offer.

Resigning Smart will likely put us into luxury tax depending on how much he wants and what the luxury tax is for 2019. If we use the projected numbers, it turns out to leave bout 15.5 mil worth of space for him. Anything more than that and I think that if Danny is smart, he will let Smart walk for free to avoid luxury tax for 1 more year because after 2019-2020, we're going to be in luxury for a long time. I don't see it happening because I think Smart is going to ask for and get closer to 20 mil and Danny will let him walk, otherwise the extension could have been done this season.

Rest are already under contract through 2018-2019.
Couple of things. We have two ways of signing both Monroe and Baynes. We can give them a contract with first year being 20% higher than this year with 5% increases for each year thereafter. So Baynes starting at $5.4 million per and Monroe at $6 million. If we don't become a taxpayer first, we also have the MLE worth about $8.7 million per who if we thought one of those players were worth it we could give to them instead of the 20% raise route. We only have one MLE.

Second, Smart is a RFA that has shown to be a horrible shooter, extremely inefficient scorer, with poor decision making ability at times that is a great defender. Players like him don't make $15 million per season and there certainly isn't anyone out there giving him $20 million per. Ainge didn't give Smart an extension meaning there was definitely a decent gap in values between what management and Smart thought he was worth. My guess is Smart punching a picture and cutting himself costing him 11 games didn't help his value.

In a market thats very limited and given Smart is a RFA, I have trouble seeing Smart getting more than Andre Roverson money of $10 million per and doubt he will get even that. My guess is some team will offer the MLE, around $8.7 per year.

Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2018, 03:29:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Nope, zero chance.

We're probably the 6th or 7th best team in the league when healthy. Most teams out west would mop the floor with us.
Except with everyone injured we were the 4th best team this year.

Truly think you are having this hot take just to get a reaction. If not, I would recommend you back up this opinion with reasons you feel that way, maybe even backed up with some stats or similar opinions being made by experts to give credence to your opinion.

Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2018, 03:44:27 PM »

Online footey

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It might be one of those years where the defending champs might or a Lebron team isn't the favorite, how's that for saying something while dodging the jinx?

But holy cow. If we can keep Monroe especially, and Irving and Gordy come back 100%, at least by Christmas... all 5 starters and at least 3 bench players could legit average 20 on most teams. That's the top 8, possibly a playoff rotation by itself. I mean, if we really did roll with those 8, we're going to see some 140, 145 point games pretty often.
Don't know if it could happen, but I'd love to "keep the band together".  10-man rotation:
Horford
Irving
Hayward
Brown
Tatum
Rozier
Morris
Smart
Monroe
Theis

We don't have much leverage with Monroe. From what I understand, we can only offer him $5 mil? due to the way that we signed him. I doubt that will be the highest offer.

Resigning Smart will likely put us into luxury tax depending on how much he wants and what the luxury tax is for 2019. If we use the projected numbers, it turns out to leave bout 15.5 mil worth of space for him. Anything more than that and I think that if Danny is smart, he will let Smart walk for free to avoid luxury tax for 1 more year because after 2019-2020, we're going to be in luxury for a long time. I don't see it happening because I think Smart is going to ask for and get closer to 20 mil and Danny will let him walk, otherwise the extension could have been done this season.

Rest are already under contract through 2018-2019.
Couple of things. We have two ways of signing both Monroe and Baynes. We can give them a contract with first year being 20% higher than this year with 5% increases for each year thereafter. So Baynes starting at $5.4 million per and Monroe at $6 million. If we don't become a taxpayer first, we also have the MLE worth about $8.7 million per who if we thought one of those players were worth it we could give to them instead of the 20% raise route. We only have one MLE.

Second, Smart is a RFA that has shown to be a horrible shooter, extremely inefficient scorer, with poor decision making ability at times that is a great defender. Players like him don't make $15 million per season and there certainly isn't anyone out there giving him $20 million per. Ainge didn't give Smart an extension meaning there was definitely a decent gap in values between what management and Smart thought he was worth. My guess is Smart punching a picture and cutting himself costing him 11 games didn't help his value.

In a market thats very limited and given Smart is a RFA, I have trouble seeing Smart getting more than Andre Roverson money of $10 million per and doubt he will get even that. My guess is some team will offer the MLE, around $8.7 per year.

Would you match $10-12 mm offer to Smart, Nick? At what point would you let him walk?

Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2018, 04:09:05 PM »

Offline bdm860

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In a market thats very limited and given Smart is a RFA, I have trouble seeing Smart getting more than Andre Roverson money of $10 million per and doubt he will get even that. My guess is some team will offer the MLE, around $8.7 per year.

I wonder if there's any chance Smart takes the qualifying offer, which I think would be $6m for him.  This would go a long way to keeping the band together, as then there's a better chance of re-signing both Monroe and Baynes while the team stays under the luxury tax threshold, which is important for next year, allowing Wyc to break the bank in '19-'20 and beyond.

Why would Smart take the QO though?  Limited teams have cap space this year and thinks there will be a better market for him next year?  He believes teams aren't offering him fair market value because they think the C's will just match?  The picture punching incident along with another injury filled season quelled the interest from other teams, so he thinks he needs to have one more incident/injury free year to prove his worth?  He wants to stay with the C's and has a wink-and-a-nod from Danny and Wyc that they'll give him a good contract in '19-'20 when the C's are ready to pay the luxury tax?

Though most players who take the QO usually want to leave their teams ASAP, I believe Spencer Hawes in 2011 is the only player to take the QO and then re-sign with his team the next year.  Probably a long shot, but think it would be great for the C's if it did happen for one reason or another.

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Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2018, 05:29:43 PM »

Offline More Banners

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It might be one of those years where the defending champs might or a Lebron team isn't the favorite, how's that for saying something while dodging the jinx?

But holy cow. If we can keep Monroe especially, and Irving and Gordy come back 100%, at least by Christmas... all 5 starters and at least 3 bench players could legit average 20 on most teams. That's the top 8, possibly a playoff rotation by itself. I mean, if we really did roll with those 8, we're going to see some 140, 145 point games pretty often.
Don't know if it could happen, but I'd love to "keep the band together".  10-man rotation:
Horford
Irving
Hayward
Brown
Tatum
Rozier
Morris
Smart
Monroe
Theis

We don't have much leverage with Monroe. From what I understand, we can only offer him $5 mil? due to the way that we signed him. I doubt that will be the highest offer.

Resigning Smart will likely put us into luxury tax depending on how much he wants and what the luxury tax is for 2019. If we use the projected numbers, it turns out to leave bout 15.5 mil worth of space for him. Anything more than that and I think that if Danny is smart, he will let Smart walk for free to avoid luxury tax for 1 more year because after 2019-2020, we're going to be in luxury for a long time. I don't see it happening because I think Smart is going to ask for and get closer to 20 mil and Danny will let him walk, otherwise the extension could have been done this season.

Rest are already under contract through 2018-2019.
Couple of things. We have two ways of signing both Monroe and Baynes. We can give them a contract with first year being 20% higher than this year with 5% increases for each year thereafter. So Baynes starting at $5.4 million per and Monroe at $6 million. If we don't become a taxpayer first, we also have the MLE worth about $8.7 million per who if we thought one of those players were worth it we could give to them instead of the 20% raise route. We only have one MLE.

Second, Smart is a RFA that has shown to be a horrible shooter, extremely inefficient scorer, with poor decision making ability at times that is a great defender. Players like him don't make $15 million per season and there certainly isn't anyone out there giving him $20 million per. Ainge didn't give Smart an extension meaning there was definitely a decent gap in values between what management and Smart thought he was worth. My guess is Smart punching a picture and cutting himself costing him 11 games didn't help his value.

In a market thats very limited and given Smart is a RFA, I have trouble seeing Smart getting more than Andre Roverson money of $10 million per and doubt he will get even that. My guess is some team will offer the MLE, around $8.7 per year.

Would you match $10-12 mm offer to Smart, Nick? At what point would you let him walk?

Good stuff here.

Me, I offer Monroe the full MLE on day 1. I think this is a great place for him to be long term, and I hope he takes it.

Smart:  QO is looking more probable all the time. There just isn't much big money in the market this year.

Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2018, 05:43:51 PM »

Offline Erik

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Well I'm pretty sure Monroe can get more than $6 mil or MLE and Smart can get more than $10 mil. He is a starting caliber point guard. There is going to be a team that is going to pay him starter money. I guess that we'll find out in a few months.

I would be wiling to re-sign Smart up to luxury tax but not a penny more. If you're building a super team, having a strong 6th man for $15mi/yr is not unheard of. The future cash savings of delaying luxury tax by 1 year are absurd if you look at the repeater rules.

Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2018, 05:54:46 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Yes. I think so. GSW look tired (from recent title and near-title runs) and ripe for a beating from a young hungry talented team. GSW not as hungry as they once were.

If HOU or anyone else besides GS wins this year, I don't see them losing next year. Maybe a loss is all that is needed to kick the complacency. KD went to GS to win multiple championships. While they might not win 6 like Lebron/Wade/Bosh's Heat, it is conceivable that GS wins 3+ more.

Danny has some work to do before the Celtics are better than GS.

Re: So, we're taking it in 2019 right?
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2018, 06:05:48 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I don't know what DA and ownership are willing to pay Marcus, but he is #1 on my list among Smart, Monroe and Baynes.   I think the C's may be in "contender" land and a destination for a 15 MPG big or 2 who are looking for a shot at a ring and willing to take vet minimum or close.  Not sure who, but I would think that a Baynes quality big shouldn't be impossible to find.  And Theis will be back.  If we secure Smart, it would be great to keep Baynes or Monroe, but I think DA can replace them.

I think Smart has unique value and, along with the other Marcus, adds toughness along with skill.  Smart will not be a go-to scorer on the court next year in any lineup -- as he sorta was in stretches earlier this season.   Thus -- he won't shoot as much.  Really want to keep him.