Author Topic: Giannis inability to hit the jump shot will unable him to reach elite status  (Read 2786 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37047
  • Tommy Points: 1887
I'd like to see Milwaukee rein Giannis in a little bit. Make him more of a 20ppg threat than a 25-30ppg threat. Force the ball to move more. Allow players like Bledsoe, Middleton and Jabari Parker more opportunities to express themselves.

I don't think Giannis has the game (skill level) to constructively score 25-30ppg. His scoring arsenal is too limited. He needs to have a jump-shot to go to that next level as an elite scorer (25-30ppg). I think forcing him to that level before he is ready is having a destructive influence on Miwaukee's team. Forcing the team out of offensive rhythm because Giannis has to over-do things to try and get his drive to the basket because of he is unable to hit any type of jump-shot (midrange, long two or 3 pointer) with any consistency.

I'd like to see Giannis concentrate more on being a defensive presence, continue his progression as a double digit rebounder and improve his team offense as a facilitator for others. Not always playmaking assist-type passes but involving others. Getting the offense moving. Using his threat of ball-handling and quickness to get the ball moving quicker. Be a 20-10-5 all-defense type presence. Develop those Scottie Pippen type skills. Then further Giannis' scoring development when he develops a passable jump-shot.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 11:24:41 AM by Who »

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19533
  • Tommy Points: 926
I'd like to see Milwaukee rein Giannis in a little bit. Make him more of a 20ppg threat than a 25-30ppg threat. Force the ball to move more. Allow players like Bledsoe, Middleton and Jabari Parker more opportunities to express themselves.

I don't think Giannis has the game (skill level) to constructively score 25-30ppg. His scoring arsenal is too limited. He needs to have a jump-shot to go to that next level as an elite scorer (25-30ppg). I think forcing him to that level before he is ready is having a destructive influence on Miwaukee's team. Forcing the team out of offensive rhythm because Giannis has to over-do things to try and get his drive to the basket because of he is unable to hit any type of jump-shot (midrange, long two or 3 pointer) with any consistency.

I'd like to see Giannis concentrate more on being a defensive presence, continue his progression as a double digit rebounder and improve his team offense as a facilitator for others. Not always playmaking assist-type passes but involving others. Getting the offense moving. Using his threat of ball-handling and quickness to get the ball moving quicker. Be a 20-10-5 all-defense type presence. Develop those Scottie Pippen type skills. Then further Giannis' scoring development when he develops a passable jump-shot.
The Bucks players by and large just aren't good enough though.  They don't fit well around Giannis.  They need a team with high level shooters.  And I'm really not sure what else you think Middleton and Bledsoe are capable of doing as they went for 20 and 18 this year with Giannis at 26.  Sure you drop a few points from Giannis and Brogdon or Parker might get a few more looks, but why would you take shots away from your most efficient scorer and give them to 4th and 5th options.  It just doesn't make sense.

The Bucks, quite simply need to rework their team and build a team more suited for Giannis.  Henson, Zeller, and Maker are terrible fits at center and only Snell and Teletovic (who played 10 games before going down) were high level shooters.  I mean imagine how much different the Bucks look if they were starting Love and Korver next to Giannis.  Just much better fits offensively, which is the Bucks real problem.

Offline ZoneD

  • Marcus Morris
  • Posts: 75
  • Tommy Points: 12
I'd like to see Milwaukee rein Giannis in a little bit. Make him more of a 20ppg threat than a 25-30ppg threat. Force the ball to move more. Allow players like Bledsoe, Middleton and Jabari Parker more opportunities to express themselves.

I don't think Giannis has the game (skill level) to constructively score 25-30ppg. His scoring arsenal is too limited. He needs to have a jump-shot to go to that next level as an elite scorer (25-30ppg). I think forcing him to that level before he is ready is having a destructive influence on Miwaukee's team. Forcing the team out of offensive rhythm because Giannis has to over-do things to try and get his drive to the basket because of he is unable to hit any type of jump-shot (midrange, long two or 3 pointer) with any consistency.

I'd like to see Giannis concentrate more on being a defensive presence, continue his progression as a double digit rebounder and improve his team offense as a facilitator for others. Not always playmaking assist-type passes but involving others. Getting the offense moving. Using his threat of ball-handling and quickness to get the ball moving quicker. Be a 20-10-5 all-defense type presence. Develop those Scottie Pippen type skills. Then further Giannis' scoring development when he develops a passable jump-shot.
The Bucks players by and large just aren't good enough though.  They don't fit well around Giannis.  They need a team with high level shooters.  And I'm really not sure what else you think Middleton and Bledsoe are capable of doing as they went for 20 and 18 this year with Giannis at 26.  Sure you drop a few points from Giannis and Brogdon or Parker might get a few more looks, but why would you take shots away from your most efficient scorer and give them to 4th and 5th options.  It just doesn't make sense.

The Bucks, quite simply need to rework their team and build a team more suited for Giannis.  Henson, Zeller, and Maker are terrible fits at center and only Snell and Teletovic (who played 10 games before going down) were high level shooters.  I mean imagine how much different the Bucks look if they were starting Love and Korver next to Giannis.  Just much better fits offensively, which is the Bucks real problem.

I agree with this. The Bucks' roster is just poorly constructed which makes it easy to harp on Giannis' inability to consistently hit a shot outside of 15 ft. He's an outstanding player with very few holes outside of his jumper. He's made incredible strides since he came into the league and looks like he is poised to be one of the top 5 players in the league for the next 10+ years. I think his potential is only limited by the pieces that are out around him. Middleton is a good player but he really has no all-star caliber players around him.

The Cavs have Korver, Love and other guys like Smith, etc. around LeBron. Even the 76ers have Reddick and a couple other guys that hide Simmons' weaknesses. The Bucks have Giannis, Middleton, and whatever passes as Eric Bledsoe these days. If management gets a decent coach and a couple shooters the Bucks will be well poised for the future.

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17588
  • Tommy Points: 1619
Yeah, I don't agree with the assessment of Giannis from Who. He has 16 FGA per game in the series (and gets to the line), and 18 FGA for the season. He also has 7 assists per game, and for his workload, limited turnovers.

For the series he's shooting 60% from the field, and the season 53%. I don't see a valid reason to limit his scoring threat when he's THIS efficient, particularly when his shot attempts are not an outlier for players of his caliber.

Offline Phantom255x

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9755
  • Tommy Points: 721
  • On To Banner 18!
I'd like to see Milwaukee rein Giannis in a little bit. Make him more of a 20ppg threat than a 25-30ppg threat. Force the ball to move more. Allow players like Bledsoe, Middleton and Jabari Parker more opportunities to express themselves.

I don't think Giannis has the game (skill level) to constructively score 25-30ppg. His scoring arsenal is too limited. He needs to have a jump-shot to go to that next level as an elite scorer (25-30ppg). I think forcing him to that level before he is ready is having a destructive influence on Miwaukee's team. Forcing the team out of offensive rhythm because Giannis has to over-do things to try and get his drive to the basket because of he is unable to hit any type of jump-shot (midrange, long two or 3 pointer) with any consistency.

I'd like to see Giannis concentrate more on being a defensive presence, continue his progression as a double digit rebounder and improve his team offense as a facilitator for others. Not always playmaking assist-type passes but involving others. Getting the offense moving. Using his threat of ball-handling and quickness to get the ball moving quicker. Be a 20-10-5 all-defense type presence. Develop those Scottie Pippen type skills. Then further Giannis' scoring development when he develops a passable jump-shot.
The Bucks players by and large just aren't good enough though.  They don't fit well around Giannis.  They need a team with high level shooters.  And I'm really not sure what else you think Middleton and Bledsoe are capable of doing as they went for 20 and 18 this year with Giannis at 26.  Sure you drop a few points from Giannis and Brogdon or Parker might get a few more looks, but why would you take shots away from your most efficient scorer and give them to 4th and 5th options.  It just doesn't make sense.

The Bucks, quite simply need to rework their team and build a team more suited for Giannis.  Henson, Zeller, and Maker are terrible fits at center and only Snell and Teletovic (who played 10 games before going down) were high level shooters.  I mean imagine how much different the Bucks look if they were starting Love and Korver next to Giannis.  Just much better fits offensively, which is the Bucks real problem.

I agree with this. The Bucks' roster is just poorly constructed which makes it easy to harp on Giannis' inability to consistently hit a shot outside of 15 ft. He's an outstanding player with very few holes outside of his jumper. He's made incredible strides since he came into the league and looks like he is poised to be one of the top 5 players in the league for the next 10+ years. I think his potential is only limited by the pieces that are out around him. Middleton is a good player but he really has no all-star caliber players around him.

The Cavs have Korver, Love and other guys like Smith, etc. around LeBron. Even the 76ers have Reddick and a couple other guys that hide Simmons' weaknesses. The Bucks have Giannis, Middleton, and whatever passes as Eric Bledsoe these days. If management gets a decent coach and a couple shooters the Bucks will be well poised for the future.

Could MIL think about swinging a trade for Kawhi Leonard? Idk what pieces they'd need to give up to get salary to work and such, but maybe they can flip Middleton, another salary piece and some future picks FOR Kawhi.

Then you have two Top-10 players in Kawhi and Giannis to build around, and likely still have pieces like Brogdon, Maker, etc.

Now MIL may still have to find a quality star-PG if they don't believe in Bledsoe (which I don't think they do), but once they identify one, they can be a contender.

OR actually, I think Bledsoe + salary + picks works, but idk if Spurs do that (they'd definitely prefer Middleton I believe).
2018 Mock Trade Deadline (New York Knicks)

Roster: Porzingis, Kanter, Hardaway Jr, Julius Randle, Schroder, Beasley, Alex Abrines, Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kyle Singler, Josh Huestis, Ron Baker, Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Isaiah Hicks

Future Draft Picks: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knick

Offline Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19533
  • Tommy Points: 926
I'd like to see Milwaukee rein Giannis in a little bit. Make him more of a 20ppg threat than a 25-30ppg threat. Force the ball to move more. Allow players like Bledsoe, Middleton and Jabari Parker more opportunities to express themselves.

I don't think Giannis has the game (skill level) to constructively score 25-30ppg. His scoring arsenal is too limited. He needs to have a jump-shot to go to that next level as an elite scorer (25-30ppg). I think forcing him to that level before he is ready is having a destructive influence on Miwaukee's team. Forcing the team out of offensive rhythm because Giannis has to over-do things to try and get his drive to the basket because of he is unable to hit any type of jump-shot (midrange, long two or 3 pointer) with any consistency.

I'd like to see Giannis concentrate more on being a defensive presence, continue his progression as a double digit rebounder and improve his team offense as a facilitator for others. Not always playmaking assist-type passes but involving others. Getting the offense moving. Using his threat of ball-handling and quickness to get the ball moving quicker. Be a 20-10-5 all-defense type presence. Develop those Scottie Pippen type skills. Then further Giannis' scoring development when he develops a passable jump-shot.
The Bucks players by and large just aren't good enough though.  They don't fit well around Giannis.  They need a team with high level shooters.  And I'm really not sure what else you think Middleton and Bledsoe are capable of doing as they went for 20 and 18 this year with Giannis at 26.  Sure you drop a few points from Giannis and Brogdon or Parker might get a few more looks, but why would you take shots away from your most efficient scorer and give them to 4th and 5th options.  It just doesn't make sense.

The Bucks, quite simply need to rework their team and build a team more suited for Giannis.  Henson, Zeller, and Maker are terrible fits at center and only Snell and Teletovic (who played 10 games before going down) were high level shooters.  I mean imagine how much different the Bucks look if they were starting Love and Korver next to Giannis.  Just much better fits offensively, which is the Bucks real problem.

I agree with this. The Bucks' roster is just poorly constructed which makes it easy to harp on Giannis' inability to consistently hit a shot outside of 15 ft. He's an outstanding player with very few holes outside of his jumper. He's made incredible strides since he came into the league and looks like he is poised to be one of the top 5 players in the league for the next 10+ years. I think his potential is only limited by the pieces that are out around him. Middleton is a good player but he really has no all-star caliber players around him.

The Cavs have Korver, Love and other guys like Smith, etc. around LeBron. Even the 76ers have Reddick and a couple other guys that hide Simmons' weaknesses. The Bucks have Giannis, Middleton, and whatever passes as Eric Bledsoe these days. If management gets a decent coach and a couple shooters the Bucks will be well poised for the future.

Could MIL think about swinging a trade for Kawhi Leonard? Idk what pieces they'd need to give up to get salary to work and such, but maybe they can flip Middleton, another salary piece and some future picks FOR Kawhi.

Then you have two Top-10 players in Kawhi and Giannis to build around, and likely still have pieces like Brogdon, Maker, etc.

Now MIL may still have to find a quality star-PG if they don't believe in Bledsoe (which I don't think they do), but once they identify one, they can be a contender.

OR actually, I think Bledsoe + salary + picks works, but idk if Spurs do that (they'd definitely prefer Middleton I believe).
It would probably take Brogdon and Maker along with Middleton before the Spurs would even consider it. 

I think Kevin Love would make a lot of sense as well (and if James leaves Cleveland I can totally see the Cavs moving on from Love). Lots of potential trades there in that scenario.

McCollum is the other guy that might be available that would make some sense for both teams.  Middleton, Henson, Zeller, 1st for McCollum, Leonard.  Bucks then re-sign Parker so they would be Bledsoe, McCollum, Parker, Giannis, Leonard with Brogdon, Snell, Delly, Wilson, Maker.  I think that team makes a lot more sense and is a much better fitting unit.  For the Blazers they get some salary relief and still field a quality team around Lillard.

Offline TheisTheisBaby

  • Gordon Hayward
  • Posts: 630
  • Tommy Points: 32
I disagree....Lebron couldn't shoot and still doesn't have a reliable jumper and he's become elite.  Same with Westbrook.  Magic had a very good set shot but wasn't what I'd call a GREAT shooter and he's the best PG of all-time.  It all depends on if his jumper becomes just good enough.

Offline Phantom255x

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9755
  • Tommy Points: 721
  • On To Banner 18!
I'd like to see Milwaukee rein Giannis in a little bit. Make him more of a 20ppg threat than a 25-30ppg threat. Force the ball to move more. Allow players like Bledsoe, Middleton and Jabari Parker more opportunities to express themselves.

I don't think Giannis has the game (skill level) to constructively score 25-30ppg. His scoring arsenal is too limited. He needs to have a jump-shot to go to that next level as an elite scorer (25-30ppg). I think forcing him to that level before he is ready is having a destructive influence on Miwaukee's team. Forcing the team out of offensive rhythm because Giannis has to over-do things to try and get his drive to the basket because of he is unable to hit any type of jump-shot (midrange, long two or 3 pointer) with any consistency.

I'd like to see Giannis concentrate more on being a defensive presence, continue his progression as a double digit rebounder and improve his team offense as a facilitator for others. Not always playmaking assist-type passes but involving others. Getting the offense moving. Using his threat of ball-handling and quickness to get the ball moving quicker. Be a 20-10-5 all-defense type presence. Develop those Scottie Pippen type skills. Then further Giannis' scoring development when he develops a passable jump-shot.
The Bucks players by and large just aren't good enough though.  They don't fit well around Giannis.  They need a team with high level shooters.  And I'm really not sure what else you think Middleton and Bledsoe are capable of doing as they went for 20 and 18 this year with Giannis at 26.  Sure you drop a few points from Giannis and Brogdon or Parker might get a few more looks, but why would you take shots away from your most efficient scorer and give them to 4th and 5th options.  It just doesn't make sense.

The Bucks, quite simply need to rework their team and build a team more suited for Giannis.  Henson, Zeller, and Maker are terrible fits at center and only Snell and Teletovic (who played 10 games before going down) were high level shooters.  I mean imagine how much different the Bucks look if they were starting Love and Korver next to Giannis.  Just much better fits offensively, which is the Bucks real problem.

I agree with this. The Bucks' roster is just poorly constructed which makes it easy to harp on Giannis' inability to consistently hit a shot outside of 15 ft. He's an outstanding player with very few holes outside of his jumper. He's made incredible strides since he came into the league and looks like he is poised to be one of the top 5 players in the league for the next 10+ years. I think his potential is only limited by the pieces that are out around him. Middleton is a good player but he really has no all-star caliber players around him.

The Cavs have Korver, Love and other guys like Smith, etc. around LeBron. Even the 76ers have Reddick and a couple other guys that hide Simmons' weaknesses. The Bucks have Giannis, Middleton, and whatever passes as Eric Bledsoe these days. If management gets a decent coach and a couple shooters the Bucks will be well poised for the future.

Could MIL think about swinging a trade for Kawhi Leonard? Idk what pieces they'd need to give up to get salary to work and such, but maybe they can flip Middleton, another salary piece and some future picks FOR Kawhi.

Then you have two Top-10 players in Kawhi and Giannis to build around, and likely still have pieces like Brogdon, Maker, etc.

Now MIL may still have to find a quality star-PG if they don't believe in Bledsoe (which I don't think they do), but once they identify one, they can be a contender.

OR actually, I think Bledsoe + salary + picks works, but idk if Spurs do that (they'd definitely prefer Middleton I believe).
It would probably take Brogdon and Maker along with Middleton before the Spurs would even consider it. 

I think Kevin Love would make a lot of sense as well (and if James leaves Cleveland I can totally see the Cavs moving on from Love). Lots of potential trades there in that scenario.

McCollum is the other guy that might be available that would make some sense for both teams.  Middleton, Henson, Zeller, 1st for McCollum, Leonard.  Bucks then re-sign Parker so they would be Bledsoe, McCollum, Parker, Giannis, Leonard with Brogdon, Snell, Delly, Wilson, Maker.  I think that team makes a lot more sense and is a much better fitting unit.  For the Blazers they get some salary relief and still field a quality team around Lillard.

Lol Milwaukee isn't doing that then. They are understandably high on Maker and Brogdon. And I don't think the Spurs have *that* much leverage in that they'd demand Middleton + 2 young studs, but idk, maybe you're right and that's what the Spurs want.

I do "love" that Kevin Love idea lol. I think he'd be a great fit in MIL.

McCollum too, although you wonder if a Bledsoe - McCollum back court would work or not. (Honestly, it's hard for me to tell)
2018 Mock Trade Deadline (New York Knicks)

Roster: Porzingis, Kanter, Hardaway Jr, Julius Randle, Schroder, Beasley, Alex Abrines, Jarrett Jack, Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Kyle Singler, Josh Huestis, Ron Baker, Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Isaiah Hicks

Future Draft Picks: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knick

Offline Boris Badenov

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4930
  • Tommy Points: 1005
It would probably take Brogdon and Maker along with Middleton before the Spurs would even consider it. 


Lol Milwaukee isn't doing that then. They are understandably high on Maker and Brogdon. And I don't think the Spurs have *that* much leverage in that they'd demand Middleton + 2 young studs, but idk, maybe you're right and that's what the Spurs want.

I do "love" that Kevin Love idea lol. I think he'd be a great fit in MIL.

McCollum too, although you wonder if a Bledsoe - McCollum back court would work or not. (Honestly, it's hard for me to tell)

Where are the "two young studs" in that deal? Maker is a benchwarmer who regressed this year and averaged 5 pts and 3 reb on 41/30/70 shooting with passable defense.

And Brodgon is a passable 3-and-D guy who's a borderline starter. He's also 25, which means he's definitely not "young" and it's in fact more likely that he's plateaued.



Offline SHAQATTACK

  • NCE
  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27371
  • Tommy Points: 2079
Bucks and Cavs are now about the same team......minus their superstars

Lebron is better than Yhe Freak at winning games , so edge there for now.

Put Giannis on Cavs   and its the same type of team ,  Love next scorer , with three or four younger role players and Zizic ..........

Bucks would be about the same with Lebron

Neither have a REAL IQ , scoring point guard.   

Too much playing the whole game though Giannis .   

That Bledsoe sucks as apoint guard .  He does not seem to have much IQ .


Offline keevsnick

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 916
  • Tommy Points: 80
This thread is pretty funny to me. Isnt Giannis already Úlite without a jumper? And didnt he already average 27 points a game (efficiently) without a jumper? People are literally saying he cant do things HE IS ALREADY DOING.

Offline triboy16f

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20573
  • Tommy Points: 519
I disagree....Lebron couldn't shoot and still doesn't have a reliable jumper and he's become elite.  Same with Westbrook.  Magic had a very good set shot but wasn't what I'd call a GREAT shooter and he's the best PG of all-time.  It all depends on if his jumper becomes just good enough.

Like another poster stated Lebron had a working shot from the start.    It was streaky at best but he went to it from time to time to keep the Ds guessing

You know with Giannis 1) He is not going to shoot the three 2) He is pump faking like crazy, looking around for options 1st, if nothing will shoot something that looks like a jump shot (usually does not go in)

Like Scal has said a few times....Giannis best friend would be a pure PG that could get Giannis going (pnr, lobs).  If you limit Giannis driving ability, this PG can take over in the scoring department for a bit

A pg like Dragic, Mike Conley Jr., Schroeder type would be much better than Bledsoe (poor feel for the game).   Fred VanVleet is a low key but good up and coming pg that fits the description also

Offline moiso

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6561
  • Tommy Points: 344
We have no idea how good of a shooter Giannis will be.  Love how Celtics fans think guys like Semi and Rozier will keep improving, but Giannis who is younger than them is a finished product.

Offline GratefulCs

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3107
  • Tommy Points: 486
  • Salmon and Mashed Potatoes
This thread is pretty funny to me. Isnt Giannis already Úlite without a jumper? And didnt he already average 27 points a game (efficiently) without a jumper? People are literally saying he cant do things HE IS ALREADY DOING.
sure he's elite


but in today's NBA (especially in the playoffs) you gotta be able to shoot

i think he'll be a good shooter in a few years
I trust Danny Ainge

Offline Geo123

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1442
  • Tommy Points: 33
Giannis is arguably a top 5 player in the league and you don't think he's at elite status now?  Come on now.  Well ask any coach, scout or talent evaluator in the NBA and you wouldn't get one of them agreeing with you.  The scary thing is that HE IS elite now and yet he's still improving and developing.....