Author Topic: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.  (Read 11184 times)

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Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2018, 12:56:08 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Too bad the environment he created at the time probably cost them Porzingis. 

Talk about a "what if".

Things are certainly looking up for that franchise now but they crapped all over their fanbase for a handful of years. 

Was it worth it? Who knows?  I do know that if I was a STH during those years, I would've been p*ssed since it was basically lighting hard earning $ on fire.
if they had Porzingis they don't have Simmons or Fultz.  I'm sure they are ok with the tradeoff

Sure.  Still doesn't mean that they didn't botch the situation at the time, though. 

Porzingis' reps wouldn't even deal with the Sixers because of the situation put in place by Hinkie.   That rests on Hinkie & the process. Not everything came up rosy.

And still doesn't negate the fact that the fanbase & especially the STHs got shafted for a handful of years.


No one got shafted. Being a fan or a season ticket holder doesn't mean the team promises to win each year. Pretty much every team in the league has had several seasons or more of losing teams, including bottom of the league records. The Celtics certainly did for a long time in the years of ML Carr with captain Rick Fox, Pervis Ellison, Brent Szabo, etc. Did those season ticket holders get shafted? Did it ruin our chances of ever winning? Things don't work that way. People recognize that as organizations change the players and coaches they have, the perspective of the team changes too. Its not static, and not based on past history so much. Nobody looks at the Bulls team and thinks I want to sign with them or that they should be a winning franchise because Jordan and Pippen were there or even the Rose MVP year Bulls era. Those Bulls fans aren't shafted though, they are doing what they need to do to try to build a new winning team. That's how things go.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2018, 12:59:41 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Too bad the environment he created at the time probably cost them Porzingis. 

Talk about a "what if".

Things are certainly looking up for that franchise now but they crapped all over their fanbase for a handful of years. 

Was it worth it? Who knows?  I do know that if I was a STH during those years, I would've been p*ssed since it was basically lighting hard earning $ on fire.
if they had Porzingis they don't have Simmons or Fultz.  I'm sure they are ok with the tradeoff

Sure.  Still doesn't mean that they didn't botch the situation at the time, though. 

Porzingis' reps wouldn't even deal with the Sixers because of the situation put in place by Hinkie.   That rests on Hinkie & the process. Not everything came up rosy.

And still doesn't negate the fact that the fanbase & especially the STHs got shafted for a handful of years.
Josh Jackson wouldn't deal with the Celtics either. I guess the C's culture was so bad it turned him off.  Porzingis wanted to be in N.Y., it really was that simple.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2018, 01:03:34 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Too bad the environment he created at the time probably cost them Porzingis. 

Talk about a "what if".

Things are certainly looking up for that franchise now but they crapped all over their fanbase for a handful of years. 

Was it worth it? Who knows?  I do know that if I was a STH during those years, I would've been p*ssed since it was basically lighting hard earning $ on fire.
if they had Porzingis they don't have Simmons or Fultz.  I'm sure they are ok with the tradeoff

Sure.  Still doesn't mean that they didn't botch the situation at the time, though. 

Porzingis' reps wouldn't even deal with the Sixers because of the situation put in place by Hinkie.   That rests on Hinkie & the process. Not everything came up rosy.

And still doesn't negate the fact that the fanbase & especially the STHs got shafted for a handful of years.


No one got shafted. Being a fan or a season ticket holder doesn't mean the team promises to win each year. Pretty much every team in the league has had several seasons or more of losing teams, including bottom of the league records. The Celtics certainly did for a long time in the years of ML Carr with captain Rick Fox, Pervis Ellison, Brent Szabo, etc. Did those season ticket holders get shafted? Did it ruin our chances of ever winning? Things don't work that way. People recognize that as organizations change the players and coaches they have, the perspective of the team changes too. Its not static, and not based on past history so much. Nobody looks at the Bulls team and thinks I want to sign with them or that they should be a winning franchise because Jordan and Pippen were there or even the Rose MVP year Bulls era. Those Bulls fans aren't shafted though, they are doing what they need to do to try to build a new winning team. That's how things go.

When there is a concerted effort by an organization not to win games for multiple years as part of a "process", yeah, I think the fanbase gets shafted.  It's ultimately up to the consumer whether or not they want to fork over the money but most do out of loyalty to the team.  It just sucks when the team has no real intention of winning games. 

They're getting rewarded now but that stretch as a sports fan would suck.


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Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2018, 01:06:06 PM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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I don't remember if this has been posted in this forum before. It's Ryan Bernadoni's latest take on THE PROCESS.

http://www.celticshub.com/2018/04/09/misplacing-trust-process/

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2018, 01:07:38 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Too bad the environment he created at the time probably cost them Porzingis. 

Talk about a "what if".

Things are certainly looking up for that franchise now but they crapped all over their fanbase for a handful of years. 

Was it worth it? Who knows?  I do know that if I was a STH during those years, I would've been p*ssed since it was basically lighting hard earning $ on fire.
if they had Porzingis they don't have Simmons or Fultz.  I'm sure they are ok with the tradeoff

Sure.  Still doesn't mean that they didn't botch the situation at the time, though. 

Porzingis' reps wouldn't even deal with the Sixers because of the situation put in place by Hinkie.   That rests on Hinkie & the process. Not everything came up rosy.

And still doesn't negate the fact that the fanbase & especially the STHs got shafted for a handful of years.


No one got shafted. Being a fan or a season ticket holder doesn't mean the team promises to win each year. Pretty much every team in the league has had several seasons or more of losing teams, including bottom of the league records. The Celtics certainly did for a long time in the years of ML Carr with captain Rick Fox, Pervis Ellison, Brent Szabo, etc. Did those season ticket holders get shafted? Did it ruin our chances of ever winning? Things don't work that way. People recognize that as organizations change the players and coaches they have, the perspective of the team changes too. Its not static, and not based on past history so much. Nobody looks at the Bulls team and thinks I want to sign with them or that they should be a winning franchise because Jordan and Pippen were there or even the Rose MVP year Bulls era. Those Bulls fans aren't shafted though, they are doing what they need to do to try to build a new winning team. That's how things go.

When there is a concerted effort by an organization not to win games for multiple years as part of a "process", yeah, I think the fanbase gets shafted.  It's ultimately up to the consumer whether or not they want to fork over the money but most do out of loyalty to the team.  It just sucks when the team has no real intention of winning games. 

They're getting rewarded now but that stretch as a sports fan would suck.

A lot of franchises do that though. The Celtics did that hard for Tim Duncan, it just didnt work. If it had, everyone would have said it was brilliant. Many more franchises still are content in putting out a mediocre product that will sell some playoff tickets but don't spend the money to build a winner. At least the Sixers had a plan to become elite in several years, a lot of franchises don't, they just want to sell tickets.

The players and coaches however never go out to lose a game. They all want to perform well and get  their next contracts.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2018, 01:10:27 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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Ya, I mean I dont the preoccupation with the Sixes a lot of Celtics fans have. I think given where they are right now with two all-nba levels players on their team its safe to say their plan worked. They tanked, got stars, and are now set up to compete. People like to point out they wiff on noel and Okafor, that's true, but its also sort of factored into Hinkie's plan. You still for a long time and pile up assets to get multiple shots, because you wont hit every time. Anti-hinkies also like to say that you cant develop a winning culture in that environment, but the 76ers just went form 27 to 50 wins this season and they seem to have developed a strong defensive culture even while losing, so I'm not sure that argument holds water either.

Now, in the Celtics case is it fair to ask whether our way of rebuilding was better? Sure. Winning allowed us to sign two all star free agents, trade for a top 15 NBA player and build a culture with a great coach. We are as well set as the 76ers to compete for years, But we often ignore that it was a once in a lifetime rebuild due to the Nets picks. Most NBA teams dont have a steady stream of outsourced lottery picks to do their tanking for them. If we didn't have those picks what exactly would our team look like? No Brown, No Tatum, No Kyrie with a big three of Hayward, Thomas and Horford. Assuming those guys still sign with us.

So while those losing years suck for 76ers fans, I dont see how you make a real argument that it wasn't the right call. For all we like to rag on the 76ers for their losing the pass couple of years I think its fir to point out that we have won exactly 2 more playoff series then them during the rebuild. Now we get to watch these two teams battle in the east for years to come. Its gonna be fun.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2018, 01:14:59 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Too bad the environment he created at the time probably cost them Porzingis. 

Talk about a "what if".

Things are certainly looking up for that franchise now but they crapped all over their fanbase for a handful of years. 

Was it worth it? Who knows?  I do know that if I was a STH during those years, I would've been p*ssed since it was basically lighting hard earning $ on fire.
if they had Porzingis they don't have Simmons or Fultz.  I'm sure they are ok with the tradeoff

Sure.  Still doesn't mean that they didn't botch the situation at the time, though. 

Porzingis' reps wouldn't even deal with the Sixers because of the situation put in place by Hinkie.   That rests on Hinkie & the process. Not everything came up rosy.

And still doesn't negate the fact that the fanbase & especially the STHs got shafted for a handful of years.
Josh Jackson wouldn't deal with the Celtics either. I guess the C's culture was so bad it turned him off.  Porzingis wanted to be in N.Y., it really was that simple.

Don't be so obtuse & deflectory.  Outside of your speculation, can you cite where Jackson's team actually mentioned that?

Woj actually reported that Porzingis' camp wanted nothing to do with  You really think it had  nothing to do at what was going in Philly at the time?  That's just ignorant.   The reason he wanted to be in NY was because he knew he didn't want to be in Philly and New York had the pick after them and there was a really good chance New York was gonna take him.


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Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #67 on: April 15, 2018, 01:30:02 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Too bad the environment he created at the time probably cost them Porzingis. 

Talk about a "what if".

Things are certainly looking up for that franchise now but they crapped all over their fanbase for a handful of years. 

Was it worth it? Who knows?  I do know that if I was a STH during those years, I would've been p*ssed since it was basically lighting hard earning $ on fire.
if they had Porzingis they don't have Simmons or Fultz.  I'm sure they are ok with the tradeoff

Sure.  Still doesn't mean that they didn't botch the situation at the time, though. 

Porzingis' reps wouldn't even deal with the Sixers because of the situation put in place by Hinkie.   That rests on Hinkie & the process. Not everything came up rosy.

And still doesn't negate the fact that the fanbase & especially the STHs got shafted for a handful of years.
Josh Jackson wouldn't deal with the Celtics either. I guess the C's culture was so bad it turned him off.  Porzingis wanted to be in N.Y., it really was that simple.

Don't be so obtuse & deflectory.  Outside of your speculation, can you cite where Jackson's team actually mentioned that?

Woj actually reported that Porzingis' camp wanted nothing to do with  You really think it had  nothing to do at what was going in Philly at the time?  That's just ignorant.   The reason he wanted to be in NY was because he knew he didn't want to be in Philly and New York had the pick after them and there was a really good chance New York was gonna take him.
Jackson didn't want to be in Boston.  There were all kinds of reports to that nature and he basically refused to workout for the Celtics (even worse cancelling a workout after the Celtics team was already on route).  I was being sarcastic about the reason being the culture of Boston, and used that as a point. 

Porzingis wanted to be in New York, so his agent didn't give any information to the Sixers because he didn't want to be in Philly and the hope was that would stop the Sixers from drafting him.  I mean here is the Woj article.  https://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-unlikely-story-of-how-kristaps-porzingis-found-his-way-to-the-knicks-072828935.html

"As the 2015 draft approached, Orlando was no longer the primary target for Porzingis, who had become increasingly determined to play for the Knicks. Porzingis' camp knew that it had a draft night floor of No. 5 with Orlando, but its target became New York." 

The article then talks about how Miller refused to let him workout for the Sixers with some vague reference about Miller not liking the Philly situation (with no actual quotes mind you), but the reality is, the first part I quoted.  Porzingis wanted to play in NY.  NY had the 4th pick, so they did whatever they could to stop Philly at 3 from taking him. 

That happens all the time in draft situations, just as we saw last summer with Josh Jackson.  Players have preferences, they use their agents to achieve those preferences.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2018, 01:40:06 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Too bad the environment he created at the time probably cost them Porzingis. 

Talk about a "what if".

Things are certainly looking up for that franchise now but they crapped all over their fanbase for a handful of years. 

Was it worth it? Who knows?  I do know that if I was a STH during those years, I would've been p*ssed since it was basically lighting hard earning $ on fire.
if they had Porzingis they don't have Simmons or Fultz.  I'm sure they are ok with the tradeoff

Sure.  Still doesn't mean that they didn't botch the situation at the time, though. 

Porzingis' reps wouldn't even deal with the Sixers because of the situation put in place by Hinkie.   That rests on Hinkie & the process. Not everything came up rosy.

And still doesn't negate the fact that the fanbase & especially the STHs got shafted for a handful of years.
Josh Jackson wouldn't deal with the Celtics either. I guess the C's culture was so bad it turned him off.  Porzingis wanted to be in N.Y., it really was that simple.

Don't be so obtuse & deflectory.  Outside of your speculation, can you cite where Jackson's team actually mentioned that?

Woj actually reported that Porzingis' camp wanted nothing to do with  You really think it had  nothing to do at what was going in Philly at the time?  That's just ignorant.   The reason he wanted to be in NY was because he knew he didn't want to be in Philly and New York had the pick after them and there was a really good chance New York was gonna take him.
Jackson didn't want to be in Boston.  There were all kinds of reports to that nature and he basically refused to workout for the Celtics (even worse cancelling a workout after the Celtics team was already on route).  I was being sarcastic about the reason being the culture of Boston, and used that as a point. 

Porzingis wanted to be in New York, so his agent didn't give any information to the Sixers because he didn't want to be in Philly and the hope was that would stop the Sixers from drafting him.  I mean here is the Woj article.  https://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-unlikely-story-of-how-kristaps-porzingis-found-his-way-to-the-knicks-072828935.html

"As the 2015 draft approached, Orlando was no longer the primary target for Porzingis, who had become increasingly determined to play for the Knicks. Porzingis' camp knew that it had a draft night floor of No. 5 with Orlando, but its target became New York." 

The article then talks about how Miller refused to let him workout for the Sixers with some vague reference about Miller not liking the Philly situation (with no actual quotes mind you), but the reality is, the first part I quoted.  Porzingis wanted to play in NY.  NY had the 4th pick, so they did whatever they could to stop Philly at 3 from taking him. 

That happens all the time in draft situations, just as we saw last summer with Josh Jackson.  Players have preferences, they use their agents to achieve those preferences.

And you really think that the agent steering him to NY had zero to do with what was going on in Philly at the time?  That it was no reflection in any way, shape, or form on the environment going on in Philly brought on as a side effect to the Process?


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Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2018, 01:46:47 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Hinkie was the low scum nobody else wanted to go there .....the Philly owners were desperate and did not care about ethics or anything else . 

So you got a willing set of Owners , GM flunky with no scruples and a coach desperate to gomalong with the scheme. .....if you cheat enough ......they might get ahead FOR a while ......I only hopemthe Karma catches up with them

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2018, 01:54:32 PM »

Offline Erik

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Quote
And you really think that the agent steering him to NY had zero to do with what was going on in Philly at the time?  That it was no reflection in any way, shape, or form on the environment going on in Philly brought on as a side effect to the Process?

Agreed who would want to go to Philly?  It was a chop shop with no player development.

Also Philly is not “set.” You people act as if they’re Golden State. Suppose they don’t get a big free agent? The point is there is no such thing as a process in the NBA. You can’t cheat fundamentals. They have bad coaching, bad management, bad scouting, bad training staff. 2 allstars aren’t going to make them champs. By the time the warriors implode financially, the celtics will have potentially 4 allstars. Please don’t compare the two teams as if they’re anywhere in the same league.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2018, 02:06:16 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Things look good for them at the moment, but they haven't won anything yet, or even come close. And I still expect Embiid to get injured again.
We have won anything yet or even come close either.

Exactly. If you take off the green tinted glasses, their young core is just as good as ours is.

Yes. Their young core (of Simmons, Embiid, Fultz, and Saric) is every bit as good as Tatum, Brown, Rozier, and Smart, and wouldn’t be a stretch to say perhaps better.

But, who do they have that’s as good as Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford?
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Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2018, 02:17:52 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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Things look good for them at the moment, but they haven't won anything yet, or even come close. And I still expect Embiid to get injured again.
We have won anything yet or even come close either.

Exactly. If you take off the green tinted glasses, their young core is just as good as ours is.

Yes. Their young core (of Simmons, Embiid, Fultz, and Saric) is every bit as good as Tatum, Brown, Rozier, and Smart, and wouldn’t be a stretch to say perhaps better.

But, who do they have that’s as good as Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford?

It would be a stretch to say ours is better frankly. I love Tatum and Brown, but right now Simmons and Embiid is clearly superior.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #73 on: April 15, 2018, 02:20:41 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Things look good for them at the moment, but they haven't won anything yet, or even come close. And I still expect Embiid to get injured again.
We have won anything yet or even come close either.

Exactly. If you take off the green tinted glasses, their young core is just as good as ours is.

Yes. Their young core (of Simmons, Embiid, Fultz, and Saric) is every bit as good as Tatum, Brown, Rozier, and Smart, and wouldn’t be a stretch to say perhaps better.

But, who do they have that’s as good as Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford?

It would be a stretch to say ours is better frankly. I love Tatum and Brown, but right now Simmons and Embiid is clearly superior.

They will also have the cap space this summer to sign a max free agent.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2018, 02:29:11 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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