Author Topic: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.  (Read 11078 times)

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Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #165 on: April 17, 2018, 01:26:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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contending

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means...
Actually quite certain I do know what it means and used it properly in the post referenced, which is most likely why you erased every word of that post except for the word "contending".
Would still take the rebuild Ainge did to that of Hinkie. Right now have better team. Have stars with playoff experience. Have 2 stud young guys who are great 2 way players. Have won back to back 50+ game seasons. Have been in playoffs 4 straight years. Have gone to ECF. When healthy next year will be favorite to go to Finals from east. Have better coach. Have about 8-10 year contending window

Contending - realistic chance to win a championship

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #166 on: April 17, 2018, 01:38:12 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Obviously Simmons and Embiid are both really good.

They still need to fill in the roster though. They currently have a bunch of place-holder shooters (Reddick, Bellinelli, Bayless, and Illyasova).

ROCO can probably fit into their long-term plans, but he is basically James Posey. I'm not sure he can be the 3rd-4th best player on a championship team. 

I like Saric a lot, but playing him next to ROCO, Simmons, and Embiid forces one of them to defend down a position or two, and it isn't easy to chase little guys around screens all game.

Fultz may be the third guy, but with as NBA-ready as Simmons and Embiid are, how long can they wait on him to be ready to compete on both ends in the playoffs.

The Sixers definitely have a good team, but they also have quite a bit of roster formation to go in order to be a true contender. They have the assets to get there, but we'll see if they do.
Simmons and Covington are both very versatile, high level defenders.  They are some of the more positionless players guarding 1 through 4.  Having Embiid guarding the lane really helps too.  The Sixers do a lot of switching rather than fighting through screens. 

I agree Covington shouldn't be their 3rd best player long-term.  However Embiid and Simmons are still developing so they can certainly wait on Fultz for another season.  They shouldn't waste their cap space trying to rush the Process. 

Besides PG13 and Lebron, I don't see anyone on the free agency list that really helps them.  I definitely wouldn't waste cap space on Bradley like some people suggest.  If I'm the Sixers while everyone is courting Lebron, I'd go hard after PG13.  He seems like a near perfect fit for them. 
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/
I think you could reasonably argue that Saric is already better than Covington and the gap is only going to increase (not to mention Redick was pretty clearly their 3rd best player this year).
I think an argument could be made for any of the three being their 3rd best player. Covington's defense is very important to their success.  Longer term I don't think any of the three fit the bill as their 3rd best player if they want to be a Championship contender.

Covington is their Jae Crowder; decent, but pure role type player.
Never said he wasn't a role player.  Redick and Saric are role players too.  I rate Covington higher than Crowder.  He's also a very good fit with Embiid and Simmons and on a team friendly contract.
I think Saric has a lot more than role player potential.  4th option offensively this year and put up 14.6 ppg on 11.4 shots.  39.3% from three, 50.1% from two, and 86% from the line.  6.7 rpg on a team with Embiid and Simmons grabbing boards like crazy.  Decent passer at 2.6 apg.  Needs to work on his defense, but I could easily see Saric as a 20/9/5 type player on a team where he had more looks, especially if he continues to progress like he did from year 1 to year 2 (and I know he is older which curbs some of that growth potential, but he just turned 24 and is in only his 2nd year in the NBA).
Agree with this. I really like Saric. Not sure about 20/9/5. Maybe tone that down a wee to 18/8/4 on a good team playing next to a real #1 guy. Heck wouldn't rule out him getting those numbers as a #3 guy on this team if the core stays together for a while and Fultz is a flop.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #167 on: April 17, 2018, 02:03:00 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Obviously Simmons and Embiid are both really good.

They still need to fill in the roster though. They currently have a bunch of place-holder shooters (Reddick, Bellinelli, Bayless, and Illyasova).

ROCO can probably fit into their long-term plans, but he is basically James Posey. I'm not sure he can be the 3rd-4th best player on a championship team. 

I like Saric a lot, but playing him next to ROCO, Simmons, and Embiid forces one of them to defend down a position or two, and it isn't easy to chase little guys around screens all game.

Fultz may be the third guy, but with as NBA-ready as Simmons and Embiid are, how long can they wait on him to be ready to compete on both ends in the playoffs.

The Sixers definitely have a good team, but they also have quite a bit of roster formation to go in order to be a true contender. They have the assets to get there, but we'll see if they do.
Simmons and Covington are both very versatile, high level defenders.  They are some of the more positionless players guarding 1 through 4.  Having Embiid guarding the lane really helps too.  The Sixers do a lot of switching rather than fighting through screens. 

I agree Covington shouldn't be their 3rd best player long-term.  However Embiid and Simmons are still developing so they can certainly wait on Fultz for another season.  They shouldn't waste their cap space trying to rush the Process. 

Besides PG13 and Lebron, I don't see anyone on the free agency list that really helps them.  I definitely wouldn't waste cap space on Bradley like some people suggest.  If I'm the Sixers while everyone is courting Lebron, I'd go hard after PG13.  He seems like a near perfect fit for them. 
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/
I think you could reasonably argue that Saric is already better than Covington and the gap is only going to increase (not to mention Redick was pretty clearly their 3rd best player this year).
I think an argument could be made for any of the three being their 3rd best player. Covington's defense is very important to their success.  Longer term I don't think any of the three fit the bill as their 3rd best player if they want to be a Championship contender.

Covington is their Jae Crowder; decent, but pure role type player.
Never said he wasn't a role player.  Redick and Saric are role players too.  I rate Covington higher than Crowder.  He's also a very good fit with Embiid and Simmons and on a team friendly contract.
I think Saric has a lot more than role player potential.  4th option offensively this year and put up 14.6 ppg on 11.4 shots.  39.3% from three, 50.1% from two, and 86% from the line.  6.7 rpg on a team with Embiid and Simmons grabbing boards like crazy.  Decent passer at 2.6 apg.  Needs to work on his defense, but I could easily see Saric as a 20/9/5 type player on a team where he had more looks, especially if he continues to progress like he did from year 1 to year 2 (and I know he is older which curbs some of that growth potential, but he just turned 24 and is in only his 2nd year in the NBA).
Agree with this. I really like Saric. Not sure about 20/9/5. Maybe tone that down a wee to 18/8/4 on a good team playing next to a real #1 guy. Heck wouldn't rule out him getting those numbers as a #3 guy on this team if the core stays together for a while and Fultz is a flop.

To put this in perspective the only players in the entire NBA to average 20 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists per game were Demarcus Cousins and Russell Westbrook.

Even if you go down to Nick's "modest" 18, 8 and 4 the list expands to include Lebron, Greek Freak and Jokic. Seriously what the heck are you guys watching that see Saric putting up MVP level numbers on a different team.... wow

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #168 on: April 17, 2018, 02:05:46 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Obviously Simmons and Embiid are both really good.

They still need to fill in the roster though. They currently have a bunch of place-holder shooters (Reddick, Bellinelli, Bayless, and Illyasova).

ROCO can probably fit into their long-term plans, but he is basically James Posey. I'm not sure he can be the 3rd-4th best player on a championship team. 

I like Saric a lot, but playing him next to ROCO, Simmons, and Embiid forces one of them to defend down a position or two, and it isn't easy to chase little guys around screens all game.

Fultz may be the third guy, but with as NBA-ready as Simmons and Embiid are, how long can they wait on him to be ready to compete on both ends in the playoffs.

The Sixers definitely have a good team, but they also have quite a bit of roster formation to go in order to be a true contender. They have the assets to get there, but we'll see if they do.
Simmons and Covington are both very versatile, high level defenders.  They are some of the more positionless players guarding 1 through 4.  Having Embiid guarding the lane really helps too.  The Sixers do a lot of switching rather than fighting through screens. 

I agree Covington shouldn't be their 3rd best player long-term.  However Embiid and Simmons are still developing so they can certainly wait on Fultz for another season.  They shouldn't waste their cap space trying to rush the Process. 

Besides PG13 and Lebron, I don't see anyone on the free agency list that really helps them.  I definitely wouldn't waste cap space on Bradley like some people suggest.  If I'm the Sixers while everyone is courting Lebron, I'd go hard after PG13.  He seems like a near perfect fit for them. 
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/
I think you could reasonably argue that Saric is already better than Covington and the gap is only going to increase (not to mention Redick was pretty clearly their 3rd best player this year).
I think an argument could be made for any of the three being their 3rd best player. Covington's defense is very important to their success.  Longer term I don't think any of the three fit the bill as their 3rd best player if they want to be a Championship contender.

Covington is their Jae Crowder; decent, but pure role type player.
Never said he wasn't a role player.  Redick and Saric are role players too.  I rate Covington higher than Crowder.  He's also a very good fit with Embiid and Simmons and on a team friendly contract.
I think Saric has a lot more than role player potential.  4th option offensively this year and put up 14.6 ppg on 11.4 shots.  39.3% from three, 50.1% from two, and 86% from the line.  6.7 rpg on a team with Embiid and Simmons grabbing boards like crazy.  Decent passer at 2.6 apg.  Needs to work on his defense, but I could easily see Saric as a 20/9/5 type player on a team where he had more looks, especially if he continues to progress like he did from year 1 to year 2 (and I know he is older which curbs some of that growth potential, but he just turned 24 and is in only his 2nd year in the NBA).
Agree with this. I really like Saric. Not sure about 20/9/5. Maybe tone that down a wee to 18/8/4 on a good team playing next to a real #1 guy. Heck wouldn't rule out him getting those numbers as a #3 guy on this team if the core stays together for a while and Fultz is a flop.

To put this in perspective the only players in the entire NBA to average 20 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists per game were Demarcus Cousins and Russell Westbrook.

Even if you go down to Nick's "modest" 18, 8 and 4 the list expands to include Lebron, Greek Freak and Jokic. Seriously what the heck are you guys watching that see Saric putting up MVP level numbers on a different team.... wow
I was rounding up😄

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #169 on: April 17, 2018, 02:24:49 PM »

Offline bdm860

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Obviously Simmons and Embiid are both really good.

They still need to fill in the roster though. They currently have a bunch of place-holder shooters (Reddick, Bellinelli, Bayless, and Illyasova).

ROCO can probably fit into their long-term plans, but he is basically James Posey. I'm not sure he can be the 3rd-4th best player on a championship team. 

I like Saric a lot, but playing him next to ROCO, Simmons, and Embiid forces one of them to defend down a position or two, and it isn't easy to chase little guys around screens all game.

Fultz may be the third guy, but with as NBA-ready as Simmons and Embiid are, how long can they wait on him to be ready to compete on both ends in the playoffs.

The Sixers definitely have a good team, but they also have quite a bit of roster formation to go in order to be a true contender. They have the assets to get there, but we'll see if they do.
Simmons and Covington are both very versatile, high level defenders.  They are some of the more positionless players guarding 1 through 4.  Having Embiid guarding the lane really helps too.  The Sixers do a lot of switching rather than fighting through screens. 

I agree Covington shouldn't be their 3rd best player long-term.  However Embiid and Simmons are still developing so they can certainly wait on Fultz for another season.  They shouldn't waste their cap space trying to rush the Process. 

Besides PG13 and Lebron, I don't see anyone on the free agency list that really helps them.  I definitely wouldn't waste cap space on Bradley like some people suggest.  If I'm the Sixers while everyone is courting Lebron, I'd go hard after PG13.  He seems like a near perfect fit for them. 
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/
I think you could reasonably argue that Saric is already better than Covington and the gap is only going to increase (not to mention Redick was pretty clearly their 3rd best player this year).
I think an argument could be made for any of the three being their 3rd best player. Covington's defense is very important to their success.  Longer term I don't think any of the three fit the bill as their 3rd best player if they want to be a Championship contender.

Covington is their Jae Crowder; decent, but pure role type player.
Never said he wasn't a role player.  Redick and Saric are role players too.  I rate Covington higher than Crowder.  He's also a very good fit with Embiid and Simmons and on a team friendly contract.
I think Saric has a lot more than role player potential.  4th option offensively this year and put up 14.6 ppg on 11.4 shots.  39.3% from three, 50.1% from two, and 86% from the line.  6.7 rpg on a team with Embiid and Simmons grabbing boards like crazy.  Decent passer at 2.6 apg.  Needs to work on his defense, but I could easily see Saric as a 20/9/5 type player on a team where he had more looks, especially if he continues to progress like he did from year 1 to year 2 (and I know he is older which curbs some of that growth potential, but he just turned 24 and is in only his 2nd year in the NBA).
Agree with this. I really like Saric. Not sure about 20/9/5. Maybe tone that down a wee to 18/8/4 on a good team playing next to a real #1 guy. Heck wouldn't rule out him getting those numbers as a #3 guy on this team if the core stays together for a while and Fultz is a flop.

To put this in perspective the only players in the entire NBA to average 20 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists per game were Demarcus Cousins and Russell Westbrook.

Even if you go down to Nick's "modest" 18, 8 and 4 the list expands to include Lebron, Greek Freak and Jokic. Seriously what the heck are you guys watching that see Saric putting up MVP level numbers on a different team.... wow

Those are Antoine Walker MVP level numbers!

'01: 23.4ppg. 8.9rpg, 5.5apg, 1.7spg in 81 games.

It's amazing how good those numbers look in a vacuum.

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #170 on: April 17, 2018, 02:29:46 PM »

Offline Moranis

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In the games this year where Saric played at least 36 minutes these are his stat lines from p/r/a

13/11/4
14/8/3
16/8/4
18/10/9
20/7/1
26/14/5
23/9/3 (game 2 yesterday)

if you expand it to 34 minutes or more these are the additional games
25/10/1
13/10/2
18/10/4
17/9/6
20/9/6
22/10/2
21/7/2

He had 13 other games where he scored at least 20 points, had 5 other games where he had at least 5 assists, and 14 other games with at least 9 rebounds. 

It is his 2nd year and he is on a team with a lot of talent.  I don't think he can be a #1 scoring option as he isn't athletic enough, but he absolutely could put up all star level numbers quite easily.  Frankly, he could have had all star level numbers this year, if he just had more than 29.6 mpg and wasn't sharing the ball as much as he was.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #171 on: April 17, 2018, 02:29:59 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Obviously Simmons and Embiid are both really good.

They still need to fill in the roster though. They currently have a bunch of place-holder shooters (Reddick, Bellinelli, Bayless, and Illyasova).

ROCO can probably fit into their long-term plans, but he is basically James Posey. I'm not sure he can be the 3rd-4th best player on a championship team. 

I like Saric a lot, but playing him next to ROCO, Simmons, and Embiid forces one of them to defend down a position or two, and it isn't easy to chase little guys around screens all game.

Fultz may be the third guy, but with as NBA-ready as Simmons and Embiid are, how long can they wait on him to be ready to compete on both ends in the playoffs.

The Sixers definitely have a good team, but they also have quite a bit of roster formation to go in order to be a true contender. They have the assets to get there, but we'll see if they do.
Simmons and Covington are both very versatile, high level defenders.  They are some of the more positionless players guarding 1 through 4.  Having Embiid guarding the lane really helps too.  The Sixers do a lot of switching rather than fighting through screens. 

I agree Covington shouldn't be their 3rd best player long-term.  However Embiid and Simmons are still developing so they can certainly wait on Fultz for another season.  They shouldn't waste their cap space trying to rush the Process. 

Besides PG13 and Lebron, I don't see anyone on the free agency list that really helps them.  I definitely wouldn't waste cap space on Bradley like some people suggest.  If I'm the Sixers while everyone is courting Lebron, I'd go hard after PG13.  He seems like a near perfect fit for them. 
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/
I think you could reasonably argue that Saric is already better than Covington and the gap is only going to increase (not to mention Redick was pretty clearly their 3rd best player this year).
I think an argument could be made for any of the three being their 3rd best player. Covington's defense is very important to their success.  Longer term I don't think any of the three fit the bill as their 3rd best player if they want to be a Championship contender.

Covington is their Jae Crowder; decent, but pure role type player.
Never said he wasn't a role player.  Redick and Saric are role players too.  I rate Covington higher than Crowder.  He's also a very good fit with Embiid and Simmons and on a team friendly contract.
I think Saric has a lot more than role player potential.  4th option offensively this year and put up 14.6 ppg on 11.4 shots.  39.3% from three, 50.1% from two, and 86% from the line.  6.7 rpg on a team with Embiid and Simmons grabbing boards like crazy.  Decent passer at 2.6 apg.  Needs to work on his defense, but I could easily see Saric as a 20/9/5 type player on a team where he had more looks, especially if he continues to progress like he did from year 1 to year 2 (and I know he is older which curbs some of that growth potential, but he just turned 24 and is in only his 2nd year in the NBA).
Agree with this. I really like Saric. Not sure about 20/9/5. Maybe tone that down a wee to 18/8/4 on a good team playing next to a real #1 guy. Heck wouldn't rule out him getting those numbers as a #3 guy on this team if the core stays together for a while and Fultz is a flop.

To put this in perspective the only players in the entire NBA to average 20 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists per game were Demarcus Cousins and Russell Westbrook.

Even if you go down to Nick's "modest" 18, 8 and 4 the list expands to include Lebron, Greek Freak and Jokic. Seriously what the heck are you guys watching that see Saric putting up MVP level numbers on a different team.... wow

Those are Antoine Walker MVP level numbers!

'01: 23.4ppg. 8.9rpg, 5.5apg, 1.7spg in 81 games.

It's amazing how good those numbers look in a vacuum.
Antoine in today's NBA, imagine how many 3 pointers he would have attempted.  He was ahead of his time. 

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #172 on: April 17, 2018, 02:36:43 PM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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Obviously Simmons and Embiid are both really good.

They still need to fill in the roster though. They currently have a bunch of place-holder shooters (Reddick, Bellinelli, Bayless, and Illyasova).

ROCO can probably fit into their long-term plans, but he is basically James Posey. I'm not sure he can be the 3rd-4th best player on a championship team. 

I like Saric a lot, but playing him next to ROCO, Simmons, and Embiid forces one of them to defend down a position or two, and it isn't easy to chase little guys around screens all game.

Fultz may be the third guy, but with as NBA-ready as Simmons and Embiid are, how long can they wait on him to be ready to compete on both ends in the playoffs.

The Sixers definitely have a good team, but they also have quite a bit of roster formation to go in order to be a true contender. They have the assets to get there, but we'll see if they do.
Simmons and Covington are both very versatile, high level defenders.  They are some of the more positionless players guarding 1 through 4.  Having Embiid guarding the lane really helps too.  The Sixers do a lot of switching rather than fighting through screens. 

I agree Covington shouldn't be their 3rd best player long-term.  However Embiid and Simmons are still developing so they can certainly wait on Fultz for another season.  They shouldn't waste their cap space trying to rush the Process. 

Besides PG13 and Lebron, I don't see anyone on the free agency list that really helps them.  I definitely wouldn't waste cap space on Bradley like some people suggest.  If I'm the Sixers while everyone is courting Lebron, I'd go hard after PG13.  He seems like a near perfect fit for them. 
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/
I think you could reasonably argue that Saric is already better than Covington and the gap is only going to increase (not to mention Redick was pretty clearly their 3rd best player this year).
I think an argument could be made for any of the three being their 3rd best player. Covington's defense is very important to their success.  Longer term I don't think any of the three fit the bill as their 3rd best player if they want to be a Championship contender.

Covington is their Jae Crowder; decent, but pure role type player.
Never said he wasn't a role player.  Redick and Saric are role players too.  I rate Covington higher than Crowder.  He's also a very good fit with Embiid and Simmons and on a team friendly contract.
I think Saric has a lot more than role player potential.  4th option offensively this year and put up 14.6 ppg on 11.4 shots.  39.3% from three, 50.1% from two, and 86% from the line.  6.7 rpg on a team with Embiid and Simmons grabbing boards like crazy.  Decent passer at 2.6 apg.  Needs to work on his defense, but I could easily see Saric as a 20/9/5 type player on a team where he had more looks, especially if he continues to progress like he did from year 1 to year 2 (and I know he is older which curbs some of that growth potential, but he just turned 24 and is in only his 2nd year in the NBA).
Agree with this. I really like Saric. Not sure about 20/9/5. Maybe tone that down a wee to 18/8/4 on a good team playing next to a real #1 guy. Heck wouldn't rule out him getting those numbers as a #3 guy on this team if the core stays together for a while and Fultz is a flop.

To put this in perspective the only players in the entire NBA to average 20 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists per game were Demarcus Cousins and Russell Westbrook.

Even if you go down to Nick's "modest" 18, 8 and 4 the list expands to include Lebron, Greek Freak and Jokic. Seriously what the heck are you guys watching that see Saric putting up MVP level numbers on a different team.... wow

Those are Antoine Walker MVP level numbers!

'01: 23.4ppg. 8.9rpg, 5.5apg, 1.7spg in 81 games.

It's amazing how good those numbers look in a vacuum.
Antoine in today's NBA, imagine how many 3 pointers he would have attempted.  He was ahead of his time.

All of them  ;D
Self proclaimed president of the fictional Troz3 fan club.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #173 on: April 17, 2018, 03:16:49 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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In the games this year where Saric played at least 36 minutes these are his stat lines from p/r/a

13/11/4
14/8/3
16/8/4
18/10/9
20/7/1
26/14/5
23/9/3 (game 2 yesterday)

if you expand it to 34 minutes or more these are the additional games
25/10/1
13/10/2
18/10/4
17/9/6
20/9/6
22/10/2
21/7/2

He had 13 other games where he scored at least 20 points, had 5 other games where he had at least 5 assists, and 14 other games with at least 9 rebounds. 

It is his 2nd year and he is on a team with a lot of talent.  I don't think he can be a #1 scoring option as he isn't athletic enough, but he absolutely could put up all star level numbers quite easily.  Frankly, he could have had all star level numbers this year, if he just had more than 29.6 mpg and wasn't sharing the ball as much as he was.

What a silly attempt to manipulate statistics.

 Do you think in games where Saric is playing good, is not in any foul trouble, and is scoring/rebounding well he is inevitably going to be given more minutes than if he was not? Yes, kind of common sense. You would expect his numbers to look better in those games.

Then, where is this magical 36 minutes coming from? Saric is never going to average 36 minutes a game in the NBA. He is a pretty big guy with limited athleticism. Do you know how many small forward, power forwards and centers averaged 36 a game this season? 8 in the entire league and it includes superstars like GA, Lebron, Jimmy Butler, Davis and Paul George.
Even if you go down to 34 minutes for sf-c you are still at 11 players in the entire NBA Durant, Lebron, GA, Davis, Cousins, Kat, Butler, Middletown etc. He just isn't going to play that many minutes anywhere.


I'll repeat cause you seem to skim over this, 2 players in the entire league averaged 20, 9 and 4 and one of them (Cousins) didn't make it through the season cause their coach was running his body into the ground. Saric is never joining that club. I feel bad Saric honestly that someone is even putting out these ridiculous expectations for the guy. He isn't a Westbrook or Lebron style player and even he would admit it himself. Lets have a reasonable discussion about this guy without the bizarre pie in the sky hyperbole.   

 

« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 03:38:39 PM by celticsclay »

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #174 on: April 17, 2018, 03:21:56 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I think Saric is a sneaky good player in the NBA. I can see the optimistic projections of his game. I'm not sure if he is a volume scorer, but he's very solid.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #175 on: April 17, 2018, 03:23:29 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Obviously Simmons and Embiid are both really good.

They still need to fill in the roster though. They currently have a bunch of place-holder shooters (Reddick, Bellinelli, Bayless, and Illyasova).

ROCO can probably fit into their long-term plans, but he is basically James Posey. I'm not sure he can be the 3rd-4th best player on a championship team. 

I like Saric a lot, but playing him next to ROCO, Simmons, and Embiid forces one of them to defend down a position or two, and it isn't easy to chase little guys around screens all game.

Fultz may be the third guy, but with as NBA-ready as Simmons and Embiid are, how long can they wait on him to be ready to compete on both ends in the playoffs.

The Sixers definitely have a good team, but they also have quite a bit of roster formation to go in order to be a true contender. They have the assets to get there, but we'll see if they do.
Simmons and Covington are both very versatile, high level defenders.  They are some of the more positionless players guarding 1 through 4.  Having Embiid guarding the lane really helps too.  The Sixers do a lot of switching rather than fighting through screens. 

I agree Covington shouldn't be their 3rd best player long-term.  However Embiid and Simmons are still developing so they can certainly wait on Fultz for another season.  They shouldn't waste their cap space trying to rush the Process. 

Besides PG13 and Lebron, I don't see anyone on the free agency list that really helps them.  I definitely wouldn't waste cap space on Bradley like some people suggest.  If I'm the Sixers while everyone is courting Lebron, I'd go hard after PG13.  He seems like a near perfect fit for them. 
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/
I think you could reasonably argue that Saric is already better than Covington and the gap is only going to increase (not to mention Redick was pretty clearly their 3rd best player this year).
I think an argument could be made for any of the three being their 3rd best player. Covington's defense is very important to their success.  Longer term I don't think any of the three fit the bill as their 3rd best player if they want to be a Championship contender.

Covington is their Jae Crowder; decent, but pure role type player.
Never said he wasn't a role player.  Redick and Saric are role players too.  I rate Covington higher than Crowder.  He's also a very good fit with Embiid and Simmons and on a team friendly contract.
I think Saric has a lot more than role player potential.  4th option offensively this year and put up 14.6 ppg on 11.4 shots.  39.3% from three, 50.1% from two, and 86% from the line.  6.7 rpg on a team with Embiid and Simmons grabbing boards like crazy.  Decent passer at 2.6 apg.  Needs to work on his defense, but I could easily see Saric as a 20/9/5 type player on a team where he had more looks, especially if he continues to progress like he did from year 1 to year 2 (and I know he is older which curbs some of that growth potential, but he just turned 24 and is in only his 2nd year in the NBA).
Agree with this. I really like Saric. Not sure about 20/9/5. Maybe tone that down a wee to 18/8/4 on a good team playing next to a real #1 guy. Heck wouldn't rule out him getting those numbers as a #3 guy on this team if the core stays together for a while and Fultz is a flop.

To put this in perspective the only players in the entire NBA to average 20 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists per game were Demarcus Cousins and Russell Westbrook.

Even if you go down to Nick's "modest" 18, 8 and 4 the list expands to include Lebron, Greek Freak and Jokic. Seriously what the heck are you guys watching that see Saric putting up MVP level numbers on a different team.... wow

Those are Antoine Walker MVP level numbers!

'01: 23.4ppg. 8.9rpg, 5.5apg, 1.7spg in 81 games.

It's amazing how good those numbers look in a vacuum.
Antoine in today's NBA, imagine how many 3 pointers he would have attempted.  He was ahead of his time.

All of them  ;D

Antoine could never up those numbers in today's NBA for quite a few reasons. For one he was playing 42 minutes a game which would never happen with what is known about injury prevention and rest.

 2) with what is known about true shooting percentages and advanced analytics he wouldn't be given the green light to throw up 21 shots a game at 41% (nobody in the league even averaged 21 this year, harden led at 20) . Of players shooting 42% or worse the most attempts any were allowed was Covington at 10.5. Insane to think about.

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #176 on: April 17, 2018, 03:40:58 PM »

Offline mrceltics2013

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Obviously Simmons and Embiid are both really good.


They still need to fill in the roster though. They currently have a bunch of place-holder shooters (Reddick, Bellinelli, Bayless, and Illyasova).

ROCO can probably fit into their long-term plans, but he is basically James Posey. I'm not sure he can be the 3rd-4th best player on a championship team. 

I like Saric a lot, but playing him next to ROCO, Simmons, and Embiid forces one of them to defend down a position or two, and it isn't easy to chase little guys around screens all game.

Fultz may be the third guy, but with as NBA-ready as Simmons and Embiid are, how long can they wait on him to be ready to compete on both ends in the playoffs.

The Sixers definitely have a good team, but they also have quite a bit of roster formation to go in order to be a true contender. They have the assets to get there, but we'll see if they do.
Simmons and Covington are both very versatile, high level defenders.  They are some of the more positionless players guarding 1 through 4.  Having Embiid guarding the lane really helps too.  The Sixers do a lot of switching rather than fighting through screens. 

I agree Covington shouldn't be their 3rd best player long-term.  However Embiid and Simmons are still developing so they can certainly wait on Fultz for another season.  They shouldn't waste their cap space trying to rush the Process. 

Besides PG13 and Lebron, I don't see anyone on the free agency list that really helps them.  I definitely wouldn't waste cap space on Bradley like some people suggest.  If I'm the Sixers while everyone is courting Lebron, I'd go hard after PG13.  He seems like a near perfect fit for them. 
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/
I think you could reasonably argue that Saric is already better than Covington and the gap is only going to increase (not to mention Redick was pretty clearly their 3rd best player this year).
I think an argument could be made for any of the three being their 3rd best player. Covington's defense is very important to their success.  Longer term I don't think any of the three fit the bill as their 3rd best player if they want to be a Championship contender.

Covington is their Jae Crowder; decent, but pure role type player.
Never said he wasn't a role player.  Redick and Saric are role players too.  I rate Covington higher than Crowder.  He's also a very good fit with Embiid and Simmons and on a team friendly contract.
I think Saric has a lot more than role player potential.  4th option offensively this year and put up 14.6 ppg on 11.4 shots.  39.3% from three, 50.1% from two, and 86% from the line.  6.7 rpg on a team with Embiid and Simmons grabbing boards like crazy.  Decent passer at 2.6 apg.  Needs to work on his defense, but I could easily see Saric as a 20/9/5 type player on a team where he had more looks, especially if he continues to progress like he did from year 1 to year 2 (and I know he is older which curbs some of that growth potential, but he just turned 24 and is in only his 2nd year in the NBA).
Agree with this. I really like Saric. Not sure about 20/9/5. Maybe tone that down a wee to 18/8/4 on a good team playing next to a real #1 guy. Heck wouldn't rule out him getting those numbers as a #3 guy on this team if the core stays together for a while and Fultz is a flop.


To me comparing Covington to crowder is a gross comparassion. Covington is known as a marksman crowder was just someone who would shoot it in hopes it goes in. Crowder is no where near a good shooter. Only reason who took so many 3s was because of the team we had (which I hated and glad we have a new team now).


Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #178 on: April 17, 2018, 04:54:13 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Obviously Simmons and Embiid are both really good.


They still need to fill in the roster though. They currently have a bunch of place-holder shooters (Reddick, Bellinelli, Bayless, and Illyasova).

ROCO can probably fit into their long-term plans, but he is basically James Posey. I'm not sure he can be the 3rd-4th best player on a championship team. 

I like Saric a lot, but playing him next to ROCO, Simmons, and Embiid forces one of them to defend down a position or two, and it isn't easy to chase little guys around screens all game.

Fultz may be the third guy, but with as NBA-ready as Simmons and Embiid are, how long can they wait on him to be ready to compete on both ends in the playoffs.

The Sixers definitely have a good team, but they also have quite a bit of roster formation to go in order to be a true contender. They have the assets to get there, but we'll see if they do.
Simmons and Covington are both very versatile, high level defenders.  They are some of the more positionless players guarding 1 through 4.  Having Embiid guarding the lane really helps too.  The Sixers do a lot of switching rather than fighting through screens. 

I agree Covington shouldn't be their 3rd best player long-term.  However Embiid and Simmons are still developing so they can certainly wait on Fultz for another season.  They shouldn't waste their cap space trying to rush the Process. 

Besides PG13 and Lebron, I don't see anyone on the free agency list that really helps them.  I definitely wouldn't waste cap space on Bradley like some people suggest.  If I'm the Sixers while everyone is courting Lebron, I'd go hard after PG13.  He seems like a near perfect fit for them. 
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/
I think you could reasonably argue that Saric is already better than Covington and the gap is only going to increase (not to mention Redick was pretty clearly their 3rd best player this year).
I think an argument could be made for any of the three being their 3rd best player. Covington's defense is very important to their success.  Longer term I don't think any of the three fit the bill as their 3rd best player if they want to be a Championship contender.

Covington is their Jae Crowder; decent, but pure role type player.
Never said he wasn't a role player.  Redick and Saric are role players too.  I rate Covington higher than Crowder.  He's also a very good fit with Embiid and Simmons and on a team friendly contract.
I think Saric has a lot more than role player potential.  4th option offensively this year and put up 14.6 ppg on 11.4 shots.  39.3% from three, 50.1% from two, and 86% from the line.  6.7 rpg on a team with Embiid and Simmons grabbing boards like crazy.  Decent passer at 2.6 apg.  Needs to work on his defense, but I could easily see Saric as a 20/9/5 type player on a team where he had more looks, especially if he continues to progress like he did from year 1 to year 2 (and I know he is older which curbs some of that growth potential, but he just turned 24 and is in only his 2nd year in the NBA).
Agree with this. I really like Saric. Not sure about 20/9/5. Maybe tone that down a wee to 18/8/4 on a good team playing next to a real #1 guy. Heck wouldn't rule out him getting those numbers as a #3 guy on this team if the core stays together for a while and Fultz is a flop.


To me comparing Covington to crowder is a gross comparassion. Covington is known as a marksman crowder was just someone who would shoot it in hopes it goes in. Crowder is no where near a good shooter. Only reason who took so many 3s was because of the team we had (which I hated and glad we have a new team now).

Robert "Marksman" Covington: 39% from field for career, 35% from 3
Jae "hopes it goes in" crowder: 43% from field for career, 34% from 3

lol, should we try that again?

Edit: I get that Crowder is having a bad shooting season, but for a guy with a track record as long as his it is pretty likely he is going to be around that 33-36% range from 3 when he is in a good system. Covington will probably be in the 33-37% range (he is notoriously streaky). As shooters there is a pretty extensive body of evidence they are similar.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 04:59:45 PM by celticsclay »

Re: Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.
« Reply #179 on: April 24, 2018, 12:50:15 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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For all further posts about Hinkie I'm just gonna link people to Ryan Bernardoni's great piece on the subject:

http://www.celticshub.com/2018/04/09/misplacing-trust-process/

I like this piece a lot Phosita. I particularly liked this discussion point:

"The supportive fans certainly feel like they’ve been vindicated and won, which maybe is all that matters in something as ethereal as sports fandom. They’ve leaned into tribalism and self-aggrandizement as much as any fan base in recent American sports memory. They make Deflategate-period Patriots fans look rational. As strong an argument can be made that they sacrificed years of enjoying their team to end up in the same place as their peers, though. Do Jazz fans wish that they had tanked away a four year span? Maybe the defiance from Process Trusters is as much a coping mechanism as true search for vindication."

I think that in a nutshell is why we see so many of these threads popping up. Even our fans that were invested in this process and debated it over the years now want to try and prove that they were very intelligent in their invested arguments over the year even though a team like the jazz or timberwolves is in a very similar spot from a completely different path. (When I was watching the wolves yesterday I couldn't help but they they would be favorites to win the east if they were in it)
To say the Jazz and the Sixers are in the same place is pretty silly.  This season they did end up around the same amount of wins (though the Sixers are a betting favorite for the ECF and the Jazz likely won't get out of the 1st round), but what do people think next year will look like, or the year after, or the year after, or the 5 to 10 years after that.

This certainly seems less silly by the day as both teams are now up 3-1 with the Jazz playing a superior opponent in the first round. Look for the Jazz to give Houston some trouble if they reach the second round as their defense is very legit. Gobert is a true difference maker.